Would you like to be a professional?

[jason_elsworth1]

Well things seem a bit quiet at the moment so I hope people find this

interesting. My questions are, if you could be a full time nature

photographer would you chose to do so or are you happy with it just

being a hobby? Have any of you tried to go full time and succeded or

failed? Do any of you combine selling nature photos with another job?

What have you learnt along the way regarding the above?

[bobatkins]

I have a regular job (optical fiber and materials research). I'm not

sure I'd like to try to get into the full time nature photography

business. Now I wouldn't mind being a full time nature photographer,

as long as someone else handled all the business end of things. I

don't really enjoy filling out forms, doing taxes, marketing myself

and my work, dealing with customers, working to a schedule and all the

other little thing that probably take up a lot of the time of a one

person photo business!

 

<p>

 

My marketing technique is basically waiting for customers to come to

me. It's a very, very poor technique if you actually want to sell

anything, but requires minimal effort on my part. Needless to say I

don't sell much...

[ellen_wilson]

Yes!!!!! You think your good, you love doing it, so why not that

general progression? As Bob mentioned, the tedious business work is

yuck. I have started filing all my slides. I plan to start doing the

part-time thing then try to branch out. I specifically went to school

to obtain a degree in wildlife biology to mix with my love of nature

photography. And ya know what? I think it would be easier to sell

pictures at this point then get a job as a biologist! At this point I

can safely say I am underemployed. The thing that intimidates me is

the cost of equipment, film, and everything related. I have managed

to find one assignment with a local magazine. I think local is a good

place to start, try to get to know editors. Writing a photo/text

package is what editors like to see. Requires less work on their

part. I think it takes much time, patience, and ability to deal with

rejection, which I am getting better at. I'm still learning....

[joe_boyd]

<em>as long as someone else handled all the business end of

things</em>

 

<p>

 

The number of successful professional nature photographers who operate

a solitary business (photographer and "everything else that needs to

be done"), are probably in the minority. Because of all the other work

that Bob points out, that is necessary to be successful in the

business, it's difficult to have any time left to be in the field. It

becomes a necessity to have a partner who is capable of handling these

functions. However, it doesn't remove the need for professional

photographers to be adept at all facets of the business, if for no

other reason, than to select a capable partner, or train one.

 

<p>

 

A number of professional photographers are represented through stock

agencies. This removes some of the load for marketing, submissions,

billing, etc. To get to the point that a stock agency wants to

represent you, takes a good bit of marketing, submissions, billing,

etc. It also requires a substantial number of marketable images. The

rule of thumb is each image you give to a stock agency will generate

$1/year of income. You don't hear of too many nature photographers

making a good living from stock agencies, alone.

 

<p>

 

John Shaw's book "The Business of Nature Photography", or something

close to that, is a good primer on making a career of nature stock

photography.

 

<p>

 

For good or bad, my day job provides an income that would take nature

photography several years to surpass. So, like Bob, I'll be keeping my

day job. However, trying to build it into a second job, or something

to do when I hit the lottery, has special appeal.

[curt_casteel]

I've learned from watching friends and acquaintances over the

years that the old adage is true: If you want to ruin your hobby,

make it your business.

I photograph for the pure creative pleasure of it. As Bob

already noted, that creativity is only part of being a successful

professional, and certainly no guarantee of business success. After

all, the stereotype of the "starving artist" didn't come from nowhere!

It's old news to experienced hobbyists, but some of the

most-published professional nature photographers are not as skilled at

photography alone as some amateurs. Their skill lies in selling what

they record, and I admire the hard work and tenacity it takes to do

that in such a competitive field.

As for me, I'm absolutely certain that were I to attempt to make

a living off my photography, successful or not, I would grow to hate

it.

[paul_wilson2]

When I was 18, I figured out I didn't want to be a professional

musician and there's a lot more of a market for that than photography.

Curt said it well above.

 

<p>

 

My recommendation is to get a job that pays well and gives you a lot

of vacation time with which to practice photography. Being a software

engineering does it for me.

[bill_oneill]

My plan is to continue to work hard at my current job for another 10 years, retire, then take up nature photography full time. However, I will be living off the proceeds of my current job, not the photography. So, I will continue to live for photography, not off it.

[howard_creech1]

I have a couple of friends who are "pro" nature photographers...both

pretty sucessful...neither of them ever have any time to just go out

and shoot (which is one of the really great things about photography)

It's a business for both of them, they don't have time to do

photography for fun. For the last fifteen years, I have made a

little money every year teaching 4-5 workshops, doing a few

article/photos packages for government/military papers and magazines,

selling a handful of fine art prints, and doing some insurance work

and the rare portrait. I make enough to take a couple of trips every

year and to buy a lens/flash/body/tripod once in a while. I don't

have any desire to give up my day job in order to hustle 16 hours a

day to make a living at photography. As mentioned earlier, be

careful, you could end up hating something you love.

[markci]

You should remove the hypothetical ("_if_ you could be a full-time

nature photographer..."). Any of us _could_. Few of us actually

choose to do so, so there's your answer.

[chris_hansen]

Given the opportunity I would work full time as a Nature

Photographer. At present I will continue to work my day job and

market my images during the summer. I work as a teacher so that

it gives me plenty of time during the summer to do that.To make

the leap and jump off the bridge at this point would be too

costly. I don't feel that I could make house payments and feed my

family on photography alone at this point. I plan on keeping on

building up my stock and keeping my skills up and working full

time at it when I retire. Presently I am looking more at getting

my skills improved in the digital area as this appears to be the

way we are going. Just need to spend a few more thou on that

computer that will be outdated in 2 years.

Chris

[brian_knight]

Well a friend of mine has been shooting for about 6 years now and has

acquired enough images to open a

gallery in Estes Park CO. Now he sits in this gallery for 10 hours

every day. While I was up there I asked

him about how he was doing, and telling me that being a professional

photographer has given him a high

rent gallery to pay for along with the house he rents and cost of

living, plus no time to shoot anymore. He

no longer has a choice about doing this. He is stuck in the gallery

lease, house lease and praying to god

that someone walks in and buys something.

So I guess the question is, did he do the right thing, well he is a

grumpy old man stuck inside his gallery

with allot of overhead, no time to shoot and just barely making ends

meet. Not for me!

[d._robert_franz]

I'll take a crack at this and share my experiences on doing nature photography full time. I started photographing as a hobby while I was a wildlife major in college in the mid to late 70's. For the last 9-10 years it's been my only source of income.

 

<p>

 

This is a typical morning for me, I would like to be out photographing but I have 2 clients waiting for photo submissions. I have about 5000 slides from several big trips I took recently that need to be logged into my computer database. Then I'll print out and afix labels to them. I probably have about that many slides that have been returned to me from clients, agents, etc that need to be refiled. I have to research locations for upcoming photo shoots. You need to constantly keep your name in front of editors with promotional pieces, story ideas, etc or they soon forget who you are. In other words your never have to look for things to keep you busy.

 

<p>

 

About 50% of my income is derived by stock agency sales, I work with 5 agents scattered about the USA and the world. I would love to have them do all my marketing and I'm trying to achieve that goal but the market is tough. Most agent are overwhelmed with nature material which doesn't age as does lifestyles etc. I mean a lions fashion tastes remain the same for ever. It takes really good material to sell well in the nature market and you have to keep up on what is the "hot" animal currently. Of course the agents will tell you to go here and go there, most of which will cost you a fortune, but will never come up with any financing to help out. In the mean time I must hustle up my own sales and clients. I desperartly need office help but could not really afford to pay a decent salary.

 

<p>

 

I really could work 12-14 hours a day but I try to spend the evenings with the family unless something really urgent comes up. I have to make time for photography, you can't survive for long on old material. Fresh pictures and new stock are vital. I plan my photography schedule in advance as much as possible. I try to be out about 120 days a year, including several major trips (international) each year. In 98 I went to Indonesia and Africa, 99 will be Africa again and China, 2000 will be Australia and ??? Each trip has to be planned carefully to minimize costs so you have the best chance to get a return on your investment in a reasonable time period. I figure 1-2 years on a domestic trip and 3-4 years on a international trip. All these trips are expensive no matter what you do, my recent trip to Tanzania to photograph Chimpanzees cost nearly $8000 and I didn't do nearly as well as planned, (EL NINO) I may never break even on this one. There is tremendous risk involved in natue photography.

 

<p>

 

Having said all this I can't imagine MYSELF doing anything else. I look forward to seeing my at my next batch of developed film more than I did when I first started photographing. The photography is never a job to me. You know I really don't have time for this I better get back to making a living!!

[alan___1]

Seems nobody is keen to be a professional nature photographer. I guess

nobody wants to turn an enjoyable hobby into a full-time nightmare!

 

<p>

 

Nevertheless, you folks in America and Europe should take consolation

in the fact that it is even harder to make a living being a nature

photographer in Singapore or Asia for that matter. I know of only one

guy and he told me it never pays enough to cover his rent. He has to

double-up doing something else in order to make ends meet.

 

<p>

 

Having said this, I must add that I will be tempted if someone wants

to engage me on a project basis. I get paid for the job without the

hassle of actually running a business. Not too bad, don't you agree?

 

<p>

 

By the way, I am a businessman myself.

[ellen_wilson]

What I am getting from the above discussion is that a.) Most everyone

hates the business end of photography b.) Many people believe that

to make photography a business would somehow destroy their creative

fire. So what? We are never creative in our regular jobs? I think

that drive is 99.9999% of it. The balancing act is money and time.

Go little, think big. Learn from all.

[bobatkins]

Robert - Since you are a full time pro working 50% with stock, I'd be

interested in your comments on the old rule of thumb that stock work

brings in "an average of $1 per image per year". Of course I'm certain

that it depends a lot on the quality of work, the quality of the stock

agency you are with and the type of images you have, but is it

anywhere near ballpark correct in your experience?

[m._huber]

A big no!!! As Bob says, there's too much office work involved. (I'm paraphrasing.) I tried photography and darkroom work for money just long enough to find out that the business end, scheduling, record keeping, demand, etc. kept me from doing what I wanted to do. I answered a friend's question about this one by saying, "too much paper work." The friend tried going pro and is NOW a believer. The non-photo stuff is not worth the time, to me.

[christian_mani]

I'd like to thank D. Robert Franz for giving us a very personal and

honest peek into his life as a nature/wildlife photographer. Although

it seems a very personally and financially taxing profession, you

don't let it quash your enthusiasm or attitude--and I'll bet that

sells a lot of pics for you!

 

<p>

 

Christian Mani

[d._robert_franz]

To expand upon my previous post, I hope I didn't give the impression that I dislike the marketing and office work. I don't in fact I rather enjoy the marketing though it's the most difficult aspect of the entire business. I had to find a marketing approach that worked for me since I do not have a salesman personality.

 

<p>

 

The menial tasks such as filing slides, sticking labels etc which take up so much time that I could use to market, frustrate me. But when it comes right down to it, running your own office sure beats the heck out of working in someones elses.

 

<p>

 

To run a photo business successfully I have found you have to be a self starter, task oriented, very organized, and be able to keep your motivational level up. I know when my motivational level is down its time for me to get out and take some pictures and often just a morning of shooting locally makes a big difference.

 

<p>

 

To answer Bob on return on slides in an agency it all depends so much on the agency and how they market your work. Catalog exposure is vital for your images. Library or walk in sales for most agencies seem to have gone down dramatically over the last 5-6 years. An agressive agency who likes your work will do well for you. My best agency gives me a return of $7-9.00 a slide a year. They have done several well distributed nature catalogs in which I was well represented. They are now starting a major web site with a bunch of my photos, should be interesting to see how it does. But on a whole the $1.00/slide/year is a pretty good figure for nature and wildlife but a bit low for good lifestyle stuff.

[jim_bridges1]

I wouldn�t want be a pro photographer. I like shooting for me, not

what someone else wants me to shoot, or what I think someone else

might want me to shoot. I�ve been asked to do nature projects, and

I�ve declined, because that�s not why I�m in photography. I�m in

nature photography for the pure pleasure of being in the outdoors,

and shooting what I like. Just because I�m good at bass fishin� don�t

mean that I want to get on the Bass Pro Tour, and do it for a living.

I�ll keep my job and hobbies separate, thank you very much.

[ellen_wilson]

I would like to know what D.Robert and Gary (the resident pros here)

think about digital manipulation of photography. Do you see it is a

business problem in the future? Specifically, do you see the need to

invest time and money in such equipment? I ask this in reference to

Chris Hansen's comments about digital manipulation. I feel I am in

pretty much in the same boat, as far as planning ahead for the

photographic future.

[mark_windom]

I found that turning pro and going full-time actually increased my

enjoyment of photography in contrast to what some have said about the

possibility of it interfering with the enjoyment of it. As many have

already stated the actual business side is not the highlight of the

profession but it is what ultimately allows you to go out again and

again for new images. And it is very gratifying to make those sales.

 

<p>

 

Bob, my income through the stock agency I am with is well above the

$1/image figure you mentioned. The $1/image is an old industry

standard and I believe that most photographers are either above that

number or considering another career. It will be interesting,

however, to see what the average will become as electronic marketing

and usage becomes more commonplace. As it stands right now the

agency's print catalogs are still the major source of income for most

stock agency photographers.

 

<p>

 

The comment was made that to turn pro or to shoot stock means you

have to shoot what you don't want to shoot. I couldn't disagree

more. If you don't enjoy what you are shooting chances are the end

product will be less than desirable to your agency or the editors and

in this highly competitive field that won't cut it.

[d._robert_franz]

To respond to Ellen's question about digital manipulation I personally dislike a dramatic manipulation of a nature photograph. Example; putting a penguin together with a polar bear, something that is impossible in nature.

 

<p>

 

Now using photoshop to correct color balance or even remove a distracting branch causes me no concern and is a valuable tool. But in reality what I think may not matter for it's the art directors vision that determines what is published. Most of them have no concern of presenting an accurate representation of nature, only of what they have in their mind.

 

<p>

 

My main use for digital technology will be storage of images via writable CD's, sending images in a digital form as more clients begin to work in that manor. Desktop publishing of promotional materials, story ideas, book and calendar mock ups, etc.

[brian_connell]

From "serious" amateur to professional, money-making wildlife

photographer was always a dream of mine. As a lot of people have

discovered - it's not easy!

We decided to bite the bullet and combine our love of the bush and

all things in it, with our skills as wildlife photographers and

established a business which combined the two. We now operate a

thriving photographic workshop/tour business, called "Bush Pics",

where we take out groups of interested parties, often on foot,

through the African bush, teaching not only camera skills, but animal

behaviour, an appreciation of the svagery and beauty that is Africa,

and give our clients an experience which stays with them - in memory

and on film - for years.

It can be done - but boy! It's hard work and doesn't happen over

night. The lean times cause great despondency - but the "fat" times

more than make up for them

[jason_elsworth1]

Many thanks to all of you who contributed, especially those

profesional who were so open. Like any small businesess earning your

living via photography is obviously a real challange where business

skills and drive are at least equally important as the ability to take

a great photograph. Another important aspect I feel is the desire to

share a personal vision with as wide an audience as possible. Nature

photography can bring to the attention of the wider public the beauty

and fragilty of nature and without photographers who are willing to

make the effort to get published these personal visions would only be

communicated to a limited audience.(before anyone flames back I accept

that ams can be equally as effective in communication a vision but it

will usually be to a smaller audience).

For me personally I hope to develop over the next 5 years the abilty

to earn up to 50% of my income via nature photography. My main drives

are the abilty to spend at least some of my working life outside and a

desire to share a personal vision of the importance of conservation.

[arthur_morris_birds_as_art]

I've been pretty sure for a for a while that I've been blessed. After reading this thread, I'm positive. I taught school in a crack ghetto in NYC for 23 years and began photographing birds in 1983. Had a national cover in '86. Quit teaching in 1992. Hired my daughter--at a very good (for her) salary--to run my business in late 1998; she's done a fantastic job. Travel 250+ days a year to the best bird photography spots on the planet, but greatly prefer the travel-comforts of North America. Have published four books; became a Canon contract photoographer in 1995 or so. Have done 5 TV shows for Canon, and one world-wide TV commercial for the EOS 1N. A gallery exhibit featuring 64 of my images will hang at the Roger Tory Peterson Institute in Jamestown, NY for four months this summer. The show is being jointly sponsored by Canon and the Nature Conservancy. I teach about 15+ workshops a year and have met many wonderful folks and made several close friends, one a Dr. whose advise has improved my health 1000%. I get complimentary e-mails, letters, and phone calls practically every day. In the past year, several articles with me as the subject have appeared in prestigious publications including Living Bird and BBC Wildlife Magazine. I've had pictures in National Geographic, a cover on Outdoor Photographer--hell, I'm not even in the clique, and a National Wildlife cover. When I'm home, I work 10-14 hours a day in the office and love every second of it. As someone has already said in this thread, my life is one long vacation. Compared to the stress of teaching 35-40 children, spending 14 hours a day in my home office writing, e-mailing, and playing with and peddling my pictures is like a day at the beach under an umbrella with a cool rum punch! And, I'm making (and spending!) more money than I ever could have possibly imagined. But the government is actually subsidizing my passion--bird photography; I get to deduct all my expenses for film, processing, and the costs of travel. Aand I don't even work!

Now don't get me wrong, I do work very hard, not only in the office, but in the field, and--especially--while teaching my BIRDS AS ART/IPTs. If you don't believe how hard I work, check out the thick callous on the inside of the base of my right thumb--that's where the tripod rubs when I'm carrying the 600 f/4; the lens alone weighs almost 14 pounds. (An aside to Bob Atkins: I've paid for every single Canon lens that I own except the 28-135 IS zoom that was given to me for an advertorial shoot.) I'm very good at what I do, and best of all, I don't shoot to please anyone but myself--this adds to the great pleasure that I derive from photography.

Now before you go off thinking that I am the luckiest guy or gal on earth, realize that I lost my best friend, the love of my life, my biggest supporter, and the beautiful smile of my wife, Elaine Belsky Morris to breast cancer 4 1/2 years ago. Bird photography has enabled me to go on enjoying life in spite of my grievous loss. Making a living as a full time pro is has been a great blessing. I wouldn't trade places with anyone.

Sincerely submitted, Arthur Morris/birdsasart.com