SQ-A or SQ-Ai?

[allancobb]

Hello All,

 

I have pretty much committed myself to purchasing a Bronica SQ-type system and have narrowed my choice to either an SQ-A or SQ-Ai.

For those that have experience with both I'd like to hear your thoughts as to which aspects of each will better suit my needs.

 

I recently sold a Pentax 67 system and arrived at the Bronica solution, being the best fit in terms of weight, back interchangeability and

the square format which I have become accustomed to using with my Yashica TLRs. Bronica also is within my budget for the type of

camera I'm looking for (Hasselblad is not, at least for a while). After reviewing the capabilities of the SQ-A vs. the SQ-Ai, several

questions come, bearing in mind the types of photography I like to do (landscapes, people, some street maybe, interiors, etc.):

 

How necessary is the speed grip? (since the SQ-A can't use it)

 

Given the expense of the SQ waist-level finder (usually > $170) do I really need it, that is, can I get away with just using an AE finder?

 

Can the "chimney finder" be adequately used in lieu of the WL finder?

 

If I use the AE finder, is the speed grip even more necessary?

 

Are there reliability issues with the additional electronics regarding the SQ-Ai?

 

Is there any difference in overall build quality between the SQ-A and the SQ-Ai?

 

How is Bronica reliability holding up these days (the last posts I read about this are now a few years old)?

 

Having asked the last question, I'm thinking I shouldn't be overly worried about servicing these units since they can be replaced quite

cheaply. In any case, I'll probably be purchasing from KEH so I get a warranty/ return policy.

 

Your thoughts are much appreciated! Best regards, Allan

[david_henderson]

<p>You raise a lot of questions. I'll attempt to answer most of them albeit after a decade of Bronica I ceased using then in about 2008 and the kit and user guides etc are long since sold.</p>

 

<ul>

<li>The SQ-Ai was introduced in 1990. That means a used example today will be between say 12 and 25 years old. A SQA will be 25-35 years old. Age and reliability are linked but will also be influenced by usage, how well its looked after and maintained, servicing history and so on. How old do you want your camera to be. You can use the somewhat better PS lenses with either camera. </li>

<li>From what I've seen over the years most body/lens/back kits are sold with WLF( as they were sold when new), so you probably won't need to buy one unless you're intent on buying body, lens, back separately . They are useful but not essential . I used my Bronicas mostly with eye level finders /metered prisms. Pretty much all kits sold on eBay in the UK recently have had a WLF. Buying one independently can be an expensive pain- they were not an accessory but an integral part of the camera. </li>

<li>The Speedgrip improves handling markedly. especially if you intend to hand-hold the camera and most especially if you do so at eye level. AFAIK you can use a Speedgrip with a SQA. Even on a tripod the Speedgrip helps. At eye level, handheld with a prism I'd regard it as close to essential. Bear in mind that using the camera on a tripod will improve the image quality that no doubt attracts you to MF in the first place. </li>

<li>Reliability for older cameras like this is IMO pretty much idiosyncratic to the example rather than generic to the type. You're not going to find it useful to know whether SQ or SQA or SQ-Ai are "reliable" or not. It depends on the one you buy and I doubt whether KEH will know that much about provenance. I wouldn't expect that there was a huge inherent difference between the SQ-Ai and SQA in this respect. All these cameras, made in small quantities by todays standards, were made in the expectation that they'd be serviced /adjusted from time to time. Most of them haven't been since the brand dropped out of the professional milieu a decade or more ago. The only issues I can see with a "replace not repair" philosophy are that the specific element you need may not be available when you need it (the amount of used Bronica on eBay for example has plummeted in recent years) and also that its difficult to isolate some faults down to body/lens/back and a service agent is going to be better at diagnosis than you are. Electronic problems with Bronica SQ-Ai are not unknown- I had a couple of major issues in the first year with the camera that were difficult to diagnose but once fixed caused no trouble thereafter. For me, if I were buying a Bronica today I'd want to know what my route to a competent repair would be, notwithstanding that I might sometimes elect to replace not repair if I was certain of cause. </li>

<li>You don't mention metering. The metered prisms are old and are very primitive compared to the metering you get on a slr/dslr today. Not so much of an issue with neg film, but if using slides I'd strongly suggest a good handheld meter . </li>

</ul>

[jon_porter]

<p>I've had both the SQ-A and two SQ-Ai bodies, but currently have the SQ-B. I would take the SQ-Ai over the SQ-A since it's newer and more versatile. The only thing I hated about the SQ-Ai was that it uses four button batteries instead of the standard 6V battery like other 120 SLRs. I had numerous problems with this in the first body but less problems with the second. <br>

I have a waist-level finder but never use it (it came with one of my bodies). I only use the plain prism. I had the metered SQ-i prism briefly but didn't like the added bulk, so went back to the plain prism. But I did like that it offered an adjustable diopter.<br>

The speed grip is only necessary when a flash shoe is needed. It adds a lot of weight and bulk to the camera and you have to remove the winding crank and hopefully not misplace it -- note the SQ bodies for sale on eBay without a crank. Worse, it uses a clunky mechanical shutter release that is very easy to accidentally trip when you're focusing the lens or stuffing the camera into a bag.<br>

I've had six Bronica bodies, including the 645 and 6x7 models, and a dozen lenses all bought used and never had any trouble with them. I also have a Hasselblad 501 and actually prefer the handling of the Bronica.</p>

<p> </p>

[c_watson1]

<p>Take a look at the SQ-B. Usually sold as a kit with WLF+80/2.8+120 back. They're newer and didn't see as much hard pro use since they lacked the onboard contacts for AE finders and power winders. Speed winders greatly improve the SQ bodies' awkward ergonomics. I'd skip any metered finder for a reliable incident or incident/spot meter. I'm partial to the 45 degree prism finder over the more common straight prism finder.</p>

[peter_simpson1]

<p>I have an SQ-A and a speed grip. The Motor grip may not work with the SQ-A, but the manual speed grip works fine.<br>

What Jon said about "easy to trip the shutter accidentally" is true. The speed grip does have a convenient lock to prevent this, and I use it all the time. Clunky mechanical, is also true. I had to open mine up and install a shim before the shutter lock mechanism would do what it was supposed to do. On balance, I like it and will keep it installed - for me, the speed grip improves the camera's ergonomics considerably.<br>

I also have the metered SQ-Ai prism. Another big improvement, if you remember to turn it off. <br>

The mirror locking up until you wind takes a bit of getting used to. I have not had any reliability problems with mine, I have three backs (2x 120 6x6 and 1x 120J 4.5x6). No problems with any of them (except figuring out where to stash the dark slide while I'm shooting, so it doesn't get bent. And remembering to reinstall it to remove the back.<br>

It's not a Hasselblad, but it does seem to be a well built MF camera, and it serves my modest needs. I have heard that macro tubes and tele-extenders are somewhat rare and expensive, so if that's your thing, keep an eye out for them. <br>

I purchased mine from a guy on APUG, then bought additional components from KEH, who I wholeheartedly recommend (I got a lens with a bad shutter, which I didn't discover until I got a roll back with half of the frames blank - they exchanged the lens with absolutely no hesitation at all, a pleasure to deal with). I probably have $800 into it with three backs, four lenses, the metered finder and the speed grip. Very happy with it.</p>

[User_502260]

<p>I have four SQ-As and an SQ-AM. I have heard that some people had problems with the electronics of the smaller ETRSi and I don't need any of the additional SQ-Ai features for now. The SQ-A is not too awkward to hand hold with a waist level finder but with a prism finder a Speed Grip is a big help. The plain prism finders (no meter) go for very little and are usually found in good working order. The metered prisms may or may not work properly. It's funny that the waist level finders cost more than the plain prism finders. This was certainly not the case when they were new. The waist level finder is handy for two things. The first is copy work. The second is when you want the lightest outfit to carry. An SQ-A with an 80/2.8, 120 back and waist level finder is not too bad for carrying on a hike or long walk. You have to get used to the reversed image. If you have used a TLR with a waist level finder then you know what that's like. What about a chimney finder? A chimney finder is really like an overgrown waist level finder. I was reminded of this when I recently used a Mamiya RZ67 with an RB67 chimney finder. The image is still reversed. There is still a lot of life left in the SQ series cameras. Shutter speeds are electronically controlled and should stay accurate. Some testing will show whether your backs, inserts and dark slides are all working properly. </p>

[dave_thomas8]

<p>I suppose a lot of the decision depends on what you're going to do with the camera. Circa 2006 I put together a kit with an SQ-A body and have acquired an assortment of PS lenses. I have a WLF which I use about 98% of the time, as well as 90º and 45º prisms; no metered finders. But I do mostly still life or landscape subjects that obediently stand still. I've used the prisms mostly in rare circumstances where I wasn't flexible enough or tall enough to get my eye to the WLF. 8-)</p>

<p>I own a speed grip which works on the SQ-A. One of the A/Ai differences is the interface at the winding crank so any gadget that attaches there is not interchangeable. But that said, I hardly ever use the camera handheld.</p>

<p>I have eyed the chimney finder, mostly from GAS attacks, but concluded the WLF with the magnifier up blocks enough light to be good enough. I normally use a separate meter (Gossen Digisix or Sekonic L508).</p>

[peter_simpson1]

<p>Oh, and P vs PS lenses? There seems to be a difference of opinion as to whether the PS lenses are better enough to justify a higher price. My collection is all P, so I can't comment, but I have seen enough posts on the forums to make me wonder.</p>

[c_watson1]

<p><em>Oh, and P vs PS lenses?</em><br>

<em> </em><br>

Think you mean "S" vs PS lenses.<em><br /></em></p>

[dave_thomas8]

<p>S vs PS -- my (limited understanding is in the near normal focal lengths there isn't much optical difference. The PS has half-stop detents and perhaps slightly better coatings. The S requires fewer different filter sizes. The PS will be newer, and considering the lens contains the shutter, that might be attractive.</p>

[qalam]

I have and like very much the SQ-Ai. I have the Ai motorized grip and the metered prism finder. I seldom use the WLF.

 

With the motorized grip, you do NOT need the hard-to-find button batteries in the camera body; the grip's regular AA

batteries power the grip AND the camera body.

[allancobb]

<p>Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your well-considered responses!</p>

<p>I will add the SQ-B to the list of choices, I hadn't thought of it earlier.</p>

<p>I now know I was confused between the <em>speed grip</em> vs. the <em>motorized grip</em>. During my research, I didn't realize they are two separate items, thus leading me to believe the SQ-A wasn't capable of accommodating any kind of grip. Thank you for clarifying that.</p>

<p>As for metering, my thought was as long as the AE prism was not much more expensive than the non-metered prism, I might as well go for that (just more available options) which would point me to the SQ-Ai. However, a metered prism is not a deal-breaking necessity as I have and use a Polaris flash meter. A consideration though, is weight; is the AE prism significantly heavier than the non-metered prism? One of the reasons I sold my P67 system was the sheer weight of it (among other things) so overall weight is a priority. Speaking of which, (interesting point Benoit) does the motorized grip add much more bulk?</p>

<p>I know, a lot of questions; thanks again to all for your thoughts!</p>

[peter_simpson1]

<p>I have both the non-metered and the AE meterd prism. Not much weight difference between the two.<br>

However, the camera is not what I would call "light". But then, neither is my D700.<br>

<br /> And yes, <em><strong>S</strong></em> vs PS lenses...thanks.<br>

The button batteries are 357/SR44...still very easy to find and used in digital calipers here at work, so we have loads :-)</p>

[peter_simpson1]

Oh, and in case I wasn't clear, the AE metered prism works fine on the SQ-A. The newer one (someone help me out with the model?) does not.

[al_wood1]

<p>I assume the AE Prism Finder SQ-i does not work on the SQ-A. I do not know for sure but that would be my educated guess since the SQ-i finder allows aperture priority control of the shutter. I have that finder and I am told that it works with PS lenses only and not with S lenses.<br>

I have been putting together a SQ-Ai kit over the last 4 months and it took some time to get all the parts to work together. At first my goal was to keep cost down since I was just adding MF for kicks.<br /> My first roadblock was finding a diopter lens for the ME finder, my first viewfinder. I ordered and tried a few but I was unsuccessful. Online recommendations were not that helpful in helping me decide which diopter lens I needed and the range of lenses for sale on the internet was limited. I could have gone to the waist level finder but I bought the SQ-i viewfinder for the availability of diopter adjustment. That was when I found the second issue. My SQ-AI body would not communicate predictably with that finder. So I exchanged that body for a replacement body.<br>

It was at this time that I loaded my first role of film. I had collected one 120i and one 120j SQ-i back plus a SQ-i 220 back of each frame size for backup. Now I came to third issue. I could only get one back of the 4 to correctly advance the film past the first frame. After searching the web for ideas and trying a few tricks I diagnosed the problem as being the backs thinking that the body was set for double exposure. I was able to determine that the pin running from the body to 3 of the backs was not protruding far enough to signal to the backs to advance the film. Placing a small piece of a round toothpick at the right place in the shell of each would make them function correctly. A second body exchange corrected that problem.<br>

<br /> I have since been very happy the images that the camera makes and enjoyed going back to processing B&W film myself. I added the grip because I felt the handling was awkward using the prism finder without it. The total weight with a back loaded with film, AE viewfinder, 80mm PS lens, grip, and strap is 5lb, 8 ounces. I use the camera mounted on a mono-pod and use the strap to keep me from accidentally dropping it.<br>

All of my purchases and exchanges were done with KEH through their standard internet site or ebay store. All exchanges were painless with KEH paying postage both ways.</p>

[qalam]

Hi Allen,

 

The motorized grip is not very heavy and makes the camera much easier to hold if you are not using WLF. There ia a

short adjustable strap over the part you grip. You put your hand between the strap and the grip so that your hand is firmly

held. That way, the camera is very easy to hold both in shooting posions and when your hand is down by your side.

[peter_simpson1]

<p>Al, interesting story about your mechanical adjustments. It almost exactly mirrors my experience with the Speed Grip...it just needed a small shim to make the shutter release lock work the way it was designed. I looked hard for a way to adjust out the slop, but couldn't find it, so I added a small piece of aluminum as a shim, and "problem solved"!</p>

[martin_richter3]

I have an SQA w 220 back. Is there any problem loading 120 film in the

back? Anything I should fo differently?

[jon_porter]

<p>All you need is a 120 film insert; the backs are the same for 120 and 220.</p>

[david_henderson]

If you load 120 in a 220 insert, it will continue to pretend to take pictures after the film is completely exposed, because its

set to count to 24. You'd need to be alert to that and stop at 12. If you forget you'll have imaginary pictures. Also 120 film

with its backing is thicker than 220 and you might find (I did) that it becomes progressively stiffer to wind as you go

through the film.

 

You might well find it harder to buy an insert than a new back

[peter_simpson1]

<p>The metered prisms which work on the SQ-A are either:<br>

<a href="http://www.butkus.org/chinon/bronica/bronica_sq-a_prism_finder_s/bronica_sq-a_prism_finder_s.htm">SQ-A AE Prism Finder S</a><br>

It has an ON/OFF switch on the left side and a MANUAL/AUTO switch on the right side. This is the one I have.<br>

SQ-A ME Prism Finder S<br>

This one is more ornate and has a dial on the left side. Haven't actually seen this one, but understand it's<br>

the more feature-rich one.</p>