wedding albums vs photo books

[dorothy_kay]

<p>I just shot a wedding for my nephew. I don't know how easy (and inexpensive) it would be for me to put together a photo "book", and was wondering if photographers still use albums with photographs inserted.</p>

[william-porter]

<p>Dorothy,</p>

<p>You have lots of options here. Here are the three basic ones.</p>

<ol>

<li>The "old-fashioned" photo album that is just a way of storing and viewing prints. You make the prints (whatever size the album allows), then insert them into the pages of the album. I have used some albums that have sleeves for 4" x 6" prints only; but I also very much like an album that simply has a big, single-page plastic page covering; this lets me use prints of any size or multiple sizes and arrange them on the page any way I like.</li>

<li>The new-fashioned photo book, from Blurb, or Picaboo, or Apple (or whoever). These are getting better and better. If you use Aperture, you can build a book right in Aperture and send it to Apple for printing. Just finished a book for a bride; about 50 pages, cost a little over $100. Lightroom has built-in support for Blurb. A photo book in this class can be hard bound or soft cover. </li>

<li>The higher-end <em>printed photo album.</em> These often have thicker pages, and do usually provide considerably better print quality (better color, etc) but at a much greater cost. Cheapest you can go here will be around $250 and that will be for a small book without many pages. There are many companies that do this. One to look at is GraphiStudio. It seems to have excellent prices. Support for GraphiStudio is also built into Aperture.</li>

</ol>

<p>The "old-fashioned" do-it-yourself albums are indeed still used. I believe Bob Bernardo (an excellent photographer who is active here) uses them regularly and I know I've used them too. They're economical, and can be quite attractive. But the other options are also good.</p>

<p>Will</p>

[mccosh]

<p>Dorothy,</p>

<p>As a wedding photographer who has shot over a hundred weddings I use Lightroom to edit my images and to set out my albums that I send to Blurb for printing <a href="http://www.blurb.com/user/store/McCosh">Sample Albums</a>. My standard album have around 120 pages with approximately 300 images my couples love them and have never been asked to deliver anything else. The old albums with photos stuck in them, I think are a thing of the past. </p>

[john_martin19]

<p>John, "thing of the past"....hmmmmm....check out high end clients......that's all they want.<br>

Dorothy, actually, "old fashioned" albums with prints and mats cost more than collage albums. Blurb albums are "press printed" albums. The more pricey collage style albums are available from many sources but cost more than "press printed" Blurb albums. <br>

You can get a 12x12 20 side printed album from PCL West for around 200.00. Photo cover style. Beautiful albums.<br>

Graphi Studio albums are pricey compared to other companies and are made in Italy so you deal with overseas shipping. </p>

 

[dorothy_kay]

<p>Thank you John, William & John for your valuable input. It gives me things to consider and venders to pursue.</p>

[mccosh]

<p>Hi John Martin, Obviously different markets around the world. Here in New Zealand I know of no-one who has an album anymore with the photos stuck in them. </p>

[pete_s.]

<p>There are also photo books that are press printed but for the professional with high quality paper and full color profiling and soft proofing. Usually you have more options on how to have it bound as well. They are in a different class compared to blurb, apple and such. A lot more like a high-end photography book from some famous photographer.</p>

<p> </p>

[john_martin19]

<p>High end leather albums with mats and slip in photos are making a huge comeback high end brides want the "real" photos and "real" albums, not the cheap press printed stuff. </p>

[mccosh]

<p>Sorry John Martin, I obviously read your post wrong I apologize. I presumed when you mentioned </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Dorothy, actually, "old fashioned" albums with prints and mats cost more than collage albums.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That you reference to old fashioned albums was the old albums with the photos stuck on a page. As I said different markets from around the world as well as different markets dictated by price require different products. I offer a full range of albums but my market and clients prefer the look and feel of the press books as opposed to Old fashioned albums or albums with mats. <br>

<br>

I agree 100% that the press books are far from being the highest quality product but value for money you get a nice album with 120 + pages for a very reasonable price, that my clients love. <br>

</p>

[katrin_d.]

<p>John - just to clarify: Graphi charges 15 Dollars to ship any album from Italy to the US. It comes via UPS or Fedex [forgot which one] and arrives here within two days. I don't think that's a cost that even factors into the actual cost of the album.</p>

[ricardovaste]

I'd personally recommend avoiding any cheap photo book (eg blurb), they're not very good at all. Cheap, yeah, not a lot

else going for them. Stick to something well made with photographic paper.

[william-porter]

<p>Richard Harris says:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I'd personally recommend avoiding any cheap photo book (eg blurb), they're not very good at all. Cheap, yeah, not a lot else going for them. Stick to something well made with photographic paper.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

Well, first, Blurb (unlike Apple's book system) provides a variety of quality options, and the best are not too bad. They're also not the cheapest options.<br>

<br>

But the main objection I have to Richard's comment is that, while it's a truism that the better book publishers (like GraphiStudio and many others, including my local print shop BWC) produce better books, those books are considerably more expensive. There's a reason that Blurb is tremendously successful: People want <em>books,</em> they don't want old-fashioned photo albums where they stick photos into plastic sleeves or mount them with little paste-on corners. But people also don't want to spend an arm and a leg for that book. I wish that I were shooting in the $5000 a wedding market, so I <em>could</em> give every bride a beautiful $1000+ album (and make a little money on it to boot). But when you're shooting weddings for $1500 and sometimes less, spending much more than $100–$150 on the book just isn't practical.<br>

<br>

If the response to my objection is simply that I'm obviously doing something seriously wrong with the business side of my wedding practice, I won't disagree with you. All I can say in my defense is that, whatever mistakes I'm making, a lot of other photographers seem to be making them too. <br>

<br>

Will</p>

[mccosh]

<p>Couldn't have put it better myself Will. Well said.</p>

<p>I have just placed another order with Blurb this morning for another wedding album with Pro-line uncoated 110grms paper this along with their Pro-line gloss 140grms paper give great results that all of my clients love.</p>

<p>I market myself to the middle of the road in my local market and agree with Will that my clients want a book and not an old fashioned album and don't want to pay a fortune for it. Blurb fills this market and offer a high quality product and service. </p>

[william-porter]

<p>John McCosh writes:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I market myself to the middle of the road in my local market and agree with Will that my clients want a book and not an old fashioned album and don't want to pay a fortune for it. Blurb fills this market and offer a high quality product and service.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

Sounds like you and I approach this problem in very similar fashion. The only thing I'd edit in your comment (quoted above) is the characterization of Blurb books as a "high quality product" plain and simple. That's what I think Richard Harris and others might object to. I would prefer to say that Blurb provides high value for the relatively low cost. The quality of those thick-page photos glued to board books is of course considerably higher, but they cost a lot more too.<br>

<br>

I notice (for what it's worth) that GraphiStudio is also aware of the need for a lower-priced product and has introduced its Graphi Book. Look like a fairly high-end book can be had for under $300. <br>

<br>

Will</p>

[ricardovaste]

I'm not passing judgment, we're all (hopefully) learning and growing all the time. My opinion is simply that blurb are not

good enough for preserving wedding memories - low quality paper (even their best, just press printed), low quality

binding, poor colour consistency, poor quality control. These will fade, fall apart, tear, assuming they even arrive to the

right standard. So from my experience, they are not acceptable for preserving someone's memories.

 

We all have decisions, choices to make. You set your own standards, you are the expert.

 

I can't agree that people want a blurb book over something higher quality for anything other than price... And I agree, if they see a blurb book, they shouldnt expect to pay much for it. You don't have to have print inserts or something "old fashioned" to deliver something with longevity. Yes, it will cost more, but if you don't understand the

worth in it yourself you will seriously struggle to show this to your clients.

 

Best of luck.

[william-porter]

<p>Richard,</p>

<p>We may be having a little trouble getting on the same wavelength here.</p>

<p>Actually I don't disagree with you about very much. </p>

<p>Now, I don't dislike Blurb and you may. I don't dislike it because I'm a customer of theirs myself. I use 'em to print family vacation albums and did so for years before I started using 'em to print books for my brides. The oldest album I have is now about 12 years old and it's still in pretty good shape. (That was from Apple, now that I think of it, not Blurb, but I think Blurb's quality is generally <em>better.</em>)<br>

But I don't disagree that Blurb books (even the best of them) are not <em>the</em> <em>best</em> way to preserve memories <em>for decades.</em> I don't even think that's open to argument: you're just plain right about that. I am painfully aware that the color fidelity of a Blurb book is less than ideal, that the paper quality isn't superior, etc. And I'm dedicated to providing my clients with at least a small number of high quality prints, so much so that I <em>make sure that they get these prints automatically.</em> I don't give 'em a credit and wait for them to order. I've had brides who didn't place an order <em>for photos they'd paid for.</em> Why not? They don't want prints!</p>

<p>So that's one problem, at least in the part of the market that my clients come from. They don't really seem to want tangible products. They want digital images.</p>

<p>Another problem I've touched on already: it's an absurdly tough market. I make sure that my brides get a book whether they want it or not. If I made it optional, many of them would say no, thanks. But I can't afford to give them a $300 book without asking them to pay for it. I wish I could. If I could start shooting weddings for (say) $2500, the brides would still get a no-extra-charge book from me, but it would be a higher quality book. But I just can't afford to spend more than about 8–10% of my fee on the book. And if I'm charging $1250 for a wedding, I gotta keep the cost of the book to me (including shipping etc) under $120. Even then, I'm basically shooting weddings for the love of it. </p>

<p>There's a final problem that is awkward to talk about publicly. I think that the meaning of marriage itself seems to be in flux in ways that may actually make a difference to the long-term expectations brides have from wedding photography. I get the impression that a lot of my brides don't dare to fantasize about sitting on the couch with their husbands and grandchildren in, say, forty years and leafing through their Italian leather-bound platinum printed matted page wedding albums. Marriage seems like such an iffy proposition to so many of them, they are quietly keeping their expectations <em>very low. </em>They want the pictures and they want 'em fast so they can get 'em up on Facebook a.s.a.p. Most of my brides are not taking the long view. I preach the long view to them, and I believe in it as firmly as I believe in anything. But it's a hard, hard sell, or that's what I find. At some point, preaching the long view about marriage bleeds into preaching about marriage in a more basic sense. I'm happy to do that. I believe in the institution and its importance to our happiness, to culture, etc. My wife and I will celebrate #38 in 8 weeks. But I can't preach to my clients. I am their photographer, not their pastor or their parent. And when I talk about the long view, it almost inevitably sounds like "Hey how'd you like to upgrade your contract to First Class where I can make more money?"<br>

<br>

Will</p>

<p> </p>

<p> </p>

[ricardovaste]

Hi Will,

 

I think there is some good stuff here that should help the OP make some decisions, so all good stuff.

 

Do you put much of a markup on your books / albums? When I first started, I gauged by someone's advise, and simply

added a little for my time. Felt terrible making them, not even worth the time. Back then, x2, x3, x4 the cost seemed

startling but I now see it a little clearer. I still seem the same amount of albums (almost all have one) but now its higher

quality, and profitable. I should note this isn't anything unique, nor high end or anything like that. I really can't comment

on your own market or pricing choices for obvious reasons.

 

I could talk at length about you last paragraph, and I do kind of agree. I think people's perceptions are often related to

instant gratification, and the trends that come and go. In my experience, this is mostly with younger couples... No

offence... There are some good exceptions, some who are more traditional / religious. But for me, the my best clients are

more mature, 30-40, are perhaps more grounded through greater life experience (you understand I only speculate) and in

that understand what they're buying is quality. Regardless of product, I find more mature couples seem to understand

what good photography is, what its worth, and what exactly it is I do. So I guess you could call that a positive from people

marrying later in life these days.

 

Regardless of age or budget, everyone aspires to quality.

[mccosh]

<p>Hi Will,</p>

<p>Yes sorry I should have said that Blurb provides high value for the relatively low cost. <br>

<br>

All I am trying to put across is yes they are high quality and high price albums on the market that blow blurb books out of the water as far as quality go. However my point is that I believe there is a market for a press printed book like blurb that fills a gap in the middle of the road market.<br>

<br>

I have sample albums from <a href="http://www.queensberry.com/">Queensberry Albums</a> and also Blurb, that I show to all my clients. I have sold 17 Wedding albums from Blurb and none from Queensberry. I would love to sell a Queensberry Album to every couple, but unfortunately these are priced out of reach to all of my clients and yes this is because of the market that I am targeting and no other reason. Queensberry sell a huge amount of albums to the top end market but not so many in my target market. <br /><br />Is there something in between these two, I'm sure there must be and I would be very keen to find out if anyone know's of any then please share. A few have already been mentioned and I will be checking these out. You can't stand still or you will be left behind and that is why these discussions are great. </p>

<p> </p>

[ricardovaste]

<p><strong>"this is because of the market that I am targeting and no other reason"</strong></p>

 

<p>We all make our own decisions. You're selling press printed books because you want to.</p>

 

<p>But sure, I don't think there is any point going into this further, as there are clearly a whole bunch of things at play here, which would only steer us way OT.</p>

 

<p>Best of luck.</p>

 

 

<p><blockquote><strong>MODERATOR COMMENT:</strong> </p>

<p>Constructive and cordial, ‘off topic’ but related intercourse is OK and is encouraged.</p>

<p>We are here to discuss and learn, from each other and the discussion might lead to other options directed to the OP </strong></blockquote></p>

[mccosh]

<p>Thank you for your feedback Richard.</p>

<p>I agree this is the market that I have chosen to chase. Mainly because it has the largest segment in my local market. I'm picking up between 25 - 30 weddings per year and making a very good living out of it. I could aim at the higher end of the market and shoot fewer weddings with a higher profit, but don't for two reasons. 1) this section of the market is already over catered for locally and 2) I prefer to be busy anyway, I am not one to stand around with nothing to do.<br>

<br />Yes I am selling press books because this is the market that I have have chosen and even though I offer high quality / high priced albums, my clients opt for the press books every time and that is the very point that I was making. That yes there is a market for press books as wedding albums. You only have to visit Blurb website on two consecutive days and take note of the number of new books that have been added to the wedding category to appreciate that a lot of press books are being sold as wedding albums.</p>