joe_monahan2 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 <p>What the heck are these old frames for? The two on the outside have hinges. The one in the middle seems like it should open or slide or something, but I can't get it to move.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two23 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 <p>Fairly vague description and no photo, but I'm going to guess you found some contact printing frames.</p> <p>Kent in SD</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_monahan2 Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share Posted October 15, 2013 <p>Here is the other side...</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill C Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 <p>I don't know about the center one, but the outer ones are called "contact printing frames." Your negatives go against the glass, then the photo paper. The spring loaded backs press both tightly against the glass.</p> <p>I used to wonder why they went to the trouble of hinging the middle; I presumed it was to assist you in getting the negs lined up right. But I've since read that this was to allow checking the exposure for so-called red proofs; after some time in the sun, you could open up one side, check on the progress, then continue on without losing the alignment.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith selmes Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 <p>The one in the middle I don't know.<br> The other two as already noted are for contact printing, possibly by sunlight.<br> These were used with POP - the "red-proofs".</p> <p>Printing Out Paper was apparently used a lot by amateurs at one time, but continued in use by professionals for proofing. If it wasn't processed it would fade, so the customer could see their photo, in pink shades, but for a permanent copy they would have to pay. A bit like time limited free software really.</p> <p>POP is hard to find or make now, but the frames are still useful for cyanotypes, and the paper is sold by craft shops for "sun prints" or "nature prints". Also useful for platinotype or possibly other processes, but they are not so simple.</p> <p>POP and cyanotype have limitatons, but they can be totally processed in daylight, no darkroom needed. But you do need some bright sun or an artificial light set up, printing takes a long time in dull light.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith selmes Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 <p>I don't think POP is available any more. iirc, it was last made by Kentmere.<br> When Harman took over the Ilford photo business, they bought Kentmere and transferred Kentmere production to their own premises. But POP is a complicated manufacturing process, and although they were intending to adapt it to their own production lines, they never did.</p> <p>There was a project to make it in the USA somewhere, but it seems to have been expensive, not so good, and not now available. </p> <p>If anyone does know where to get it, do tell.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_shriver Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 <p>There are many older processes that use long exposures and are "printing out", such as albumen and platinum.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_monahan2 Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 Fascinating. I'll have to look into this! If anyone has specific resources (google I suppose ) let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_5888660 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 <p>http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/</p> <p>A good place to start your exploration. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergio_ortega7 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 The reason these old contact printing frames are hinged in the back: When using traditional print-out type papers...papers coated with light-sensitive emulsions that slowly and progressively reveal the image as it is being formed on the surface of the paper during what are normally very lengthy contact printing exposure times...the printer can open one half of the hinged back to visually examine the surface of the print, inspect the degree of development and determine whether the exposure is complete, or not. If the contact print needs additional exposure time, the process can be continued by closing one side of the hinged back without disturbing the exact registration of the negative in contact with the print-out paper. Normally, the printer will visually inspect the degree of print-out paper development several times during the entire exposure process, which usually requires many minutes, not just a few seconds. Maintaining precise registration of the negative as it is in contact with the print-out paper during exposure is critical as the degree of development is being periodically inspected. Modern, projection-speed (very fast papers used with modern darkroom enlargers, where the negative is projected through an enlarging lens directly onto the printing surface below), silver- based emulsion printing papers do not reveal the latent image being formed on the paper surface till the paper is actually placed in the developing tray, and the developer begins to react chemically with the light-sensitive emulsion and reveals the image. Traditional (for lack of a better term) printing materials...like platinum, palladium and others...are referred to as "print-out" because the image begins to form slowly and gradually appears during the exposure process, before the paper is placed in the "developer". Many print-out papers require lengthy exposure times, often using direct sunlight (the best UV light source), and can only be contact printed; one cannot use print-out papers with projection enlargers. These old hinged-back contact printing frames can be used with any kind of contact printing process, even with modern projection-speed silver papers, but they were specifically designed to be used for periodic inspection during the entire contact printing process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan_parkhouse1 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 <p>Here in the UK, I believe that Silverprint stocked POP, at least until recently. I gave up my darkroom when we moved house last year, so it's a while since I bought anything from them, but they were a good place for old processes and materials and it might be worth contacting them to see whether they could source it: www.silverprint.co.uk.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith selmes Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 <p>The paper I knew as POP was I think gelatino chloride. I believe that was the one most widely used.</p> <p>Currently First Call in the UK have cyanotype paper listed as Printing Out Paper.</p> <p>Having just checked Silver Print, they have a cyanotype paper which they call Solar Paper.<br> Looks like the same "Sunprint" or "Nature Print" paper I had from a craft supplier - available in plain thin paper at 5x7 or a water colour paper at 8x10.</p> <p>I had forgotten an old thread here, about using modern papers as printing out paper, <a href="/black-and-white-photo-printing-finishing-forum/00Xnhk">http://www.photo.net/black-and-white-photo-printing-finishing-forum/00Xnhk</a><br> Looks interesting.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergio_ortega7 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I'm only aware of one source for Collodio-Chloride printing-out paper: http://www.altphotoproducts.com Chicago Albumen Works used to sell a very good POP called "Centennial POP" some years ago, but they discontinued it. They claim POP is no longer being manufactured. Info from their site: "While printing-out paper is no longer produced anywhere in the world, the following two documents may still be of interest. The first is a historical account of the medium's production, from its introduction in the 1880s through its final production in the 2000s by Kentmere Photographic Ltd. UK. DOWNLOAD PDF. The second is the Chicago Albumen Works' last processing data sheet for Centennial POP. DOWNLOAD PDF" Go to their site for the PDF links above: http://www.albumenworks.com/links/ Alternative Photography has a lot of good information and supplies: http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/suppliers/chemicals-kits/alt-photo-products Photographer's Formulary sells all kinds of kits for handcoating your own alternative papers: http://stores.photoformulary.com/-strse-Alt-Process/Categories.bok And Bostick and Sullivan also sells kits and supplies: http://www.bostick-sullivan.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_5888660 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 <p>+1 on Bostick and Sullivan. I have been getting my alt supplies from them for years. <br> They are wonderful to work with. If you have any questions about their kits or a process, just call and they will be happy to answer your questions. </p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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