What are these old things?

[joe_monahan2]

<p>What the heck are these old frames for? The two on the outside have hinges. The one in the middle seems like it should open or slide or something, but I can't get it to move.</p><div></div>

[Two23]

<p>Fairly vague description and no photo, but I'm going to guess you found some contact printing frames.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[joe_monahan2]

<p>Here is the other side...</p><div></div>

[Bill C]

<p>I don't know about the center one, but the outer ones are called "contact printing frames." Your negatives go against the glass, then the photo paper. The spring loaded backs press both tightly against the glass.</p>

<p>I used to wonder why they went to the trouble of hinging the middle; I presumed it was to assist you in getting the negs lined up right. But I've since read that this was to allow checking the exposure for so-called red proofs; after some time in the sun, you could open up one side, check on the progress, then continue on without losing the alignment.</p>

[keith selmes]

<p>The one in the middle I don't know.<br>

The other two as already noted are for contact printing, possibly by sunlight.<br>

These were used with POP - the "red-proofs".</p>

<p>Printing Out Paper was apparently used a lot by amateurs at one time, but continued in use by professionals for proofing. If it wasn't processed it would fade, so the customer could see their photo, in pink shades, but for a permanent copy they would have to pay. A bit like time limited free software really.</p>

<p>POP is hard to find or make now, but the frames are still useful for cyanotypes, and the paper is sold by craft shops for "sun prints" or "nature prints". Also useful for platinotype or possibly other processes, but they are not so simple.</p>

<p>POP and cyanotype have limitatons, but they can be totally processed in daylight, no darkroom needed. But you do need some bright sun or an artificial light set up, printing takes a long time in dull light.</p><div></div>

[keith selmes]

<p>I don't think POP is available any more. iirc, it was last made by Kentmere.<br>

When Harman took over the Ilford photo business, they bought Kentmere and transferred Kentmere production to their own premises. But POP is a complicated manufacturing process, and although they were intending to adapt it to their own production lines, they never did.</p>

<p>There was a project to make it in the USA somewhere, but it seems to have been expensive, not so good, and not now available. </p>

<p>If anyone does know where to get it, do tell.</p><div></div>

[john_shriver]

<p>There are many older processes that use long exposures and are "printing out", such as albumen and platinum.</p>

[joe_monahan2]

Fascinating. I'll have to look into this! If anyone has specific

resources (google I suppose ) let us know.

[User_5888660]

<p>http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/</p>

<p>A good place to start your exploration. </p>

[sergio_ortega7]

The reason these old contact printing frames are hinged in the back:

 

When using traditional print-out type papers...papers coated with light-sensitive emulsions that slowly and progressively reveal

the image as it is being formed on the surface of the paper during what are normally very lengthy contact printing exposure times...the printer can open one half of the hinged back to visually examine the surface of the print, inspect the degree of development and determine whether the exposure is complete, or not. If the contact print needs additional exposure time, the process can be continued by closing one side of the hinged back without disturbing

the exact registration of the negative in contact with the print-out paper.

 

Normally, the printer will visually inspect the degree of print-out paper development several times during the entire exposure process, which usually requires many minutes, not just a few seconds. Maintaining precise registration of the negative as it is in contact with the print-out paper during exposure is critical as the degree of development is being periodically inspected.

 

Modern, projection-speed (very fast papers used with modern darkroom enlargers, where the negative is projected through an enlarging lens directly onto the printing surface below), silver-

based emulsion printing papers do not reveal the latent image being formed on the paper surface till the paper is actually placed in the

developing tray, and the developer begins to react chemically with the light-sensitive emulsion and reveals the image. Traditional (for lack of a

better term) printing materials...like platinum, palladium and others...are referred to as "print-out" because the image begins to form

slowly and gradually appears during the exposure process, before the paper is placed in the "developer".

 

Many print-out papers require lengthy exposure times, often using direct sunlight (the best UV light source), and can only be contact printed; one cannot use print-out papers with projection enlargers. These old hinged-back contact printing frames can be used with any kind of contact printing

process, even with modern projection-speed silver papers, but they were specifically designed to be used for periodic inspection during the entire contact printing process.

[jonathan_parkhouse1]

<p>Here in the UK, I believe that Silverprint stocked POP, at least until recently. I gave up my darkroom when we moved house last year, so it's a while since I bought anything from them, but they were a good place for old processes and materials and it might be worth contacting them to see whether they could source it: www.silverprint.co.uk.</p>

[keith selmes]

<p>The paper I knew as POP was I think gelatino chloride. I believe that was the one most widely used.</p>

<p>Currently First Call in the UK have cyanotype paper listed as Printing Out Paper.</p>

<p>Having just checked Silver Print, they have a cyanotype paper which they call Solar Paper.<br>

Looks like the same "Sunprint" or "Nature Print" paper I had from a craft supplier - available in plain thin paper at 5x7 or a water colour paper at 8x10.</p>

<p>I had forgotten an old thread here, about using modern papers as printing out paper, <a href="/black-and-white-photo-printing-finishing-forum/00Xnhk">http://www.photo.net/black-and-white-photo-printing-finishing-forum/00Xnhk</a><br>

Looks interesting.</p>

[sergio_ortega7]

I'm only aware of one source for Collodio-Chloride printing-out paper:

 

http://www.altphotoproducts.com

 

Chicago Albumen Works used to sell a very good POP called "Centennial POP" some years ago, but they discontinued it. They claim POP is no longer being manufactured. Info from their site:

 

"While printing-out paper is no longer produced anywhere in the world, the following two documents may still be of interest. The first is a

historical account of the medium's production, from its introduction in the 1880s through its final production in the 2000s by Kentmere

Photographic Ltd. UK. DOWNLOAD PDF. The second is the Chicago Albumen Works' last processing data sheet for Centennial POP.

DOWNLOAD PDF"

 

Go to their site for the PDF links above:

 

http://www.albumenworks.com/links/

 

Alternative Photography has a lot of good information and supplies:

 

http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/suppliers/chemicals-kits/alt-photo-products

 

Photographer's Formulary sells all kinds of kits for handcoating your own alternative papers:

 

http://stores.photoformulary.com/-strse-Alt-Process/Categories.bok

 

And Bostick and Sullivan also sells kits and supplies:

 

http://www.bostick-sullivan.com

[User_5888660]

<p>+1 on Bostick and Sullivan. I have been getting my alt supplies from them for years. <br>

They are wonderful to work with. If you have any questions about their kits or a process, just call and they will be happy to answer your questions. </p>

<p> </p>