jeni_deidre Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 David Haas, I hadn't thought about her simply not being happy with her work... But if she wasn't happy why send those 100 pics? It was really hard for me to even talk over the phone after I heard the images were gone... She was very adamant that she had tried everything and sent it off to a company and the result was 0 recovery for the hard drive. She didn't lose a year worth of work, I was referring to myself. We planned A LOT and spend A LOT of money on intricate details. I have been married for 3 years. We first got married by a judge in her office. Only him and I no personal witnesses. We sat down in front of her as if we were signing off on a loan. The entire process was 5 MINUTES. No joke! We know what it's like to be married but we didn't have the experience of our families seeing us take "the big step". We married then so I could be with him without issue since he serves the country. We never told our families we had married. They knew us as engaged. These pictures are important in lots of ways because our wedding served as a family reunion too. It had been years since we had seen our family and friends due to isolation. Pictures are very important... if they weren't photographers wouldn't be in business. Details fade. Pictures help you recall those moments. We were there but we missed so much being hosts to our guests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenseelig Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>I am still very puzzled as to whether she went back to the original cards rather than the drive. There are some pretty good card rescue programs that will find pictures even after reformatting and shooting new pictures on the card. The drive may be dead, but where are the original cards?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member69643 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>It's the way of the world, today, because everyone thinks they can be a pro. I had a similar occurrence several years ago. Went to this lady to have some special shots, portraits, done with grandma and her first grandchild. She lost the images.</p> <p>What the world needs is a licensing program for photographers.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresa_skutt Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>I didn't read everything, so forgive any repeated questions, but ... was there a 2nd photographer?<br> If not, I second the charge of a non-professional here. NO one goes without 1-a backup camera 2-a backup photographer and 3- backing up their images on AND off site! You ALWAYS have a 2nd photographer, just in case something happens on the way there, and in case of injury/theft/misc while you are there! <br> It has to be recoverable!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeni_deidre Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 No second photographer (that was an extra substaintal cost) but she had 2 cameras she was using. No assistant either. At the last minute (2 months before the wedding) I found a videographer on Craigslist to film our first dance. We didn't give him any guidance on anything else as far as filming the wedding. We wanted him to focus on the dance because we thought we would have the pictures from the photographer. Thank god he turned out to be a gem! He brought his assistant (his wife) and they were SO professional!! They were an hour earlier than the photographer. Cheaper too. He had a lot of go pro cameras set up in the reception. I have contacted him already to try to get still images. Here is his work: http://vimeo.com/m/68464796 I know he got our dance in full but not sure about anything else. I don't want to out her but it is a professional company with liability insurance. The photographer was listed among other choice photographers for the all inclusive venue I chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>Above 9 years ago, I took a one-day seminar with famed wedding photographer Monte Zucker, who unfortunately passed away a couple of years after that. During the seminar, Zucker told us a story that many years earlier, once his entire studio burned down because of some electrical problems. The fire destroyed unprinted negatives from some 21 weddings. Unfortunately, accidents such as that one happens and there is clearly no recovery.</p> <p>Not backing up hard drives is purely the photographer's negligance that should have been completely preventable. In fact, I always back up on 3, 4 drives and store them at different locations so that even thought one house catching fire cannot destroy them all. However, no amount of "what that photographer should have done" is going to help Jeni get her images back.</p> <p>Assuming what Jeni was told is the whole truth, the only hope is that the photographer can send that hard drive to the best recovery services to get some 2nd, 3rd opinions and see whether anything can be done to recover (some of) the images.</p> <p>So Jeni, not that it is going to help you much, but even the most well known wedding photographers have lost images from entire weddings. If your image cannot be recovered, hopefully you can get some images from the guests.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenseelig Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>I still think it is worth running card rescue software on the cards!. The disk may be dead, but unless the problem originated in the cards, you may be able to get some useful pictures off the cards. NOT what you can see, but through a card rescue software program.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>The problem is that it has been over a month since the wedding. I wonder whether the photographer still remembers which memory cards she used back then, but the bigger problem is that most likely most of those images have already been over-written during subsequent weddings.</p> <p>But at this point, it sure doesn't hurt to recover all of the photographer's memory cards and see what she can get back. I would imagine that there are other clients who are in the same boat.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverhaas Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>I can speak from experience - not with a wedding - but with some shots I did for a personal project last summer. I downloaded the card to my computer and made the backup - then imported into LightRoom. 3 weeks later I went to look for the shots to do some editing and low and behold all LR had were the small previews. Went back to the backups - same thing. </p> <p>I ended up having to run FileScavenger against all my CF cards - About 30 of them - before I found the card I'd used that day. And it had been reformatted and used 1 other time since then. I managed to get 50 out 51 images back. It took me two hours, and that was for personal work, not a paying client. Had it been for a client - I would have spend what ever it took to find the cards and the images. </p> <p>Jeni - People do strange things sometimes - I don't believe that all the images were bad, but I find it difficult to believe that a recovery company couldn't find / recover any of the files. Something just doesn't pass the sniff test on that. </p> <p>I would ask that she a) tell you the name of the company b) let you tell her where to send the drive (we've given you 2 options) and c) run File Scavenger against all of her memory cards </p> <p>Theresa - Not every photographer rolls with a 2nd shooter, assistant, gofer, etc... I shoot 15-20 weddings a year solo - As in no one else around. It means I don't take unnecessary risks - I triple check my footing, electrical outlets, generally anything that harm or injure me. I do have a cell phone with me at all times, and a ready list in my contacts should an emergency arise. My clients know this and understand. </p> <p>Even if there was a 2nd - had the photographer done as a lot of photographers do, and moved all the images to their computer for editing, chances are slim that the 2nd would have images before the bride. </p> <p>Dave</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_deerfield Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <blockquote> <p>What the world needs is a licensing program for photographers.<br> </p> </blockquote> <p>I don't know about the world, but PPA offers a road to Professional Certification. Less than 5% of all photographers are professionally certified. I know I'm not. Why? No one cares. How often do we see posts from first time wedding photographers that have been hired for an event that have absolutely no clue as to what they are getting into? And yet we even if we say "don't do it", that advice is never listened too. There is a post a few threads down where the "photographer" is using a point and shoot camera to shoot the event and wants advice.<br> <br> And, certification doesn't mean mistakes can't happen. Most of the certification process centers around <em>photographic </em>ability, not IT implementation. As a matter of fact, a recent issue of Professional Photographer magazine had an article explaining the value of a redundant raid. There wasn't anything wrong with the article from a factual standpoint. The issue is that a RAID is NOT a back up of any kind and therefore hardly useful for most photographers (once you have a back up why do you need a redundant RAID?). </p> <p>Licensing/Certification isn't a remedy for human error or simply an unfortunate series of events. Doctors carry malpractice insurance for a reason. Photographers (decent ones) carry insurance as well. As to what that means for the OP, I am not going to speculate. </p> <p>I am also not going to condemn a photographer without knowing the full story. Don't get me wrong, I will be the first to tell a newbie not to shoot a wedding, but without <em>knowing</em> the full story, I am not going to act as judge and jury. If indeed the photographer failed to make a back up and if indeed that back up would have saved-the-day, then that is a grievous oversight but one that is made by thousands of photographers (and others) <em>every</em> day. For all I know, the photographer did use a RAID system thinking it was a back up (a LOT of people feel this way) only to discover that when something comes along to wipe out data, it's wiped out on the RAID as well. Again, I just don't <em>know</em> what happened.</p> <p>And it's news to me that I must bring a 2nd shooter to the event to be considered a professional. I really wish all of my clients went with two shooter packages! But in this economy, that is simply unrealistic. Sure, I have packages that include several photographers but a lot of people still opt for a "shoot & burn" approach.</p> <p>There was a line in a movie once" "there aren't any perfect people, just perfect intentions".</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_lyne Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>Jeni, sorry about your losses. But at this point any compensation will be of the monetary kind. If I were you I would try to get as much out of this photog as possible. She started out by offering you a full refund which was a good faith gesture.</p> <p>Unfortunately, you'll have to live with the consequences of your photog's incompetence and nothing anyone can physically do will alter that. And that's the sad truth.</p> <p>I never had a wedding, much less wedding photos but after 10 years, I'm happily married with two beautiful kids. Now I go out and shoot weddings and while sometimes I do miss my missed opportunities, I treasure the fact that I have a good marriage with or without the photos or memories.</p> <p>Wedding photos might be important but it's not the be all and end all of of marriage.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeni_deidre Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>I'm really confused right now. If something doesn't sound right from what she has told me - what could it be? What am I missing? <br> At the wedding she was shooting with two cameras, both of them were around her neck. Why not recover the images? She made a heartfelt statement about how much she enjoyed our wedding and that we were good people and she is sad this happened to us, so why hide anything? </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeni_deidre Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 <blockquote> <p>Wedding photos might be important but it's not the be all and end all of of marriage.</p> </blockquote> <p>We know that. My husband and I are super close. What is most important is because we travel and move around a lot, we can't get those memories back with our families. If we can get some type of solution that would involve our immediate family, this could aid, not heal completely because that day is truly gone, but we can have new memories with our families. I had never left the house until 25 to leave the states for the first time for Africa to follow my love. The first year we were in Africa, my grandma had passed from dementia/ Alzheimer's (Feb) and my mom had a stroke that same year (May). We hadn't seen our families in years before the wedding. Our wedding was a family reunion as well. Before leaving, I had never cared much for family photos but they are very important to us now. That's not even explaining what my husband's family had gone through. Our marriage will endure, of course but if something were to happen to my family... it would be nice to look back on the time I was able to be with them.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_deerfield Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>At this point I would say everyone should step back and take a breath. Jeni, I don't think you've missed anything. But raw emotion is going to amplify <em>everything.</em> And then we have the effect of mass hysteria fueling the fire. No one here can possibly comment on the competence of your photographer. We simply don't know the whole story. It is quite possible no one will ever know the entire circumstances surrounding the situation. Lord knows I didn't go into extensive detail when I found out I had 866 corrupt images! What would be the point?</p> <p>Obviously, the photographer feels bad. And if this weren't a professional photographer, you might have a hard time even getting your money back and I very much doubt they would offer to pay for a new photo shoot in Hawaii. Again, I might take some time away from the issue and come back to in a day or two when calmer minds prevail. As example, a professional photographer simply can't hand over a hard drive to a client. We have no idea what other confidential information may be on that drive to potentially be recovered. Heck, we don't really even know if it <em>is</em> a recovery issue. That could be the simplest way to sum up the issue. The <em>only</em> thing we <em>know</em> is that your photographer doesn't <em>think</em> they have the images at this time. Everything else is grasping at straws.</p> <p>I really do wish you the best of luck, but it really won't do you any good right now to just "stew" over the issue. Even if you decide to take legal recourse (and I am not say you should or shouldn't), you want to do so from a calm state of mind. I might daresay you want to be calm <em>especially</em> if you decide to take legal recourse.</p> <p>Now, that all said, there might be some value in finding a third party to mediate the situation sooner rather than later. By that I mean find someone who might now more about recovery issues related to photography and have them contact the photographer to discuss the possibility of data recovery. Doctors aren't going to discuss with patients what they did wrong, but they may cooperate with a third party that isn't out to nail them to the cross. Lets assume for the moment some sort of failing on the photographers end. Why would they want to make the situation worse for themselves by detailing their possible mistakes? Again, doctors make mistakes, but they don't detail them for patients. Now, what you are really trying to find out is if there is indeed any possible hope of recovering any images. Your photographer doesn't seem to think so (and in all likelihood is probably right; I wouldn't offer a refund <em>and</em> arrange for a reshoot in Hawaii without being certain). However, there is the faintest of possibilities that your photographer doesn't <em>know</em> <em>everything</em> about data recovery and perhaps a third party can discern if data recovery is still worth pursuing or even if it really is even a data recovery issue.</p> <p>And now I will bow out myself and quit fueling the fire.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelChang Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>Jeni, here's a data recovery service in Honolulu that claims a recovery rate of 98%, no cost if data is not recovered, and a toll-free line to obtain a quote. <br> <a href="http://www.thedatarecoverygeeks.net/hawaii/data-recovery-in-honolulu-hi/">http://www.thedatarecoverygeeks.net/hawaii/data-recovery-in-honolulu-hi/</a></p> <p>The actual work might be perform on the mainland but they do claim a typical 3-5 days turn-around. It might be worth looking into with your photographer unless it's cost prohibitive. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenseelig Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Typically 1. Pictures are copied from the cards to a drive of some type 2. That drive is backed up to a second drive. At this point there are three copies of each picture: the card and the two different drives. One of the drives fail (it happens all the time). Questions you can ask. 1. What happened to the backup drive pictures? Did she have a backup drive? 2. And this is extremely important. What happened to the original pictures on the card? EVEN if the photographer erased the card and used it to take more pictures, there is some chance that card rescue software might find at least some of those pictures. You just can't put the card in a reader to see if they are there! You have to use card rescue software. I would ask her if she used card rescue software on the cards she used for your wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeni_deidre Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>John D., <br> I'm not on fire! lol And while some responses are a little strong, I hope that isn't a reflection of how I have responded here. I have been nothing but cordial and really I do understand that she is sorry.<br> I am disappointed, yes but that's why I asked if this had happened to anyone and I got more than I bargained for with possibly being able to recover my images. I doubt that she doesn't know about this. Her company does cinematography and lighting along with photography. I will definitely ask though.<br> Michael Ch.,<br> Thanks for that! I am doubtful that she would give me her hard drive or memory cards due to someone mentioning breach of privacy. I sent her a very heartfelt email. </p> <p>Even with her offering for me to shoot with her cousin here in Hawaii, my family isn't here and financially won't be able to be here anytime soon. If we go ahead with images of just my husband and I, other costs will arise. Hair, makeup, tux, etc. that I would have to pay for out of pocket. We don't have that money right now and won't for a long time. I am currently unemployed and struggling to find work here.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsay_dobson Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>Sorry if this has been said (I've not had a chance to read all of the replies), but the photographer may be finding that the cost of data recovery is proving higher than expected. I wonder if she is insured, since some policies may cover things like this if the loss is due to accidental damage or an unforeseen failure. If the photographer was supplied as part of a wedding package via the venue, then you might want to determine whether she is a sub-contractor, freelance, or employee of the hotel. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeni_deidre Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p> I really need advice about this from a possible legal standpoint because another wedding is missing their images and it could be more. While I feel deeply sorry for her, it seems as if she hadn't been backing up her images and has been purely negligent. <br> I contacted a poster on their website because the couples friend was looking for their gallery online. Meaning the photographer passed out business cards regarding the wedding date. I cross checked her website and sure enough the images weren't up. See our messages below... Their wedding was a week before mine and still she only had one back up?</p> <ul id="webMessengerRecentMessages"> <li id="wm:id.412246412225258"><strong><a href="https://www.facebook.com/jeni.deidre" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=629102248&extragetparams=%7B%7D">Jeni Deidre</a></strong> <p>Hi [omitted],<br />I saw you left a message for [company], we used them as well. You might want to have your friends contact [company] because we did and found out our images are gone. Wiped out because of the hard drive. Our wedding was June 14th. We were supposed to receive the images by July 25th. We had to contact [company] on July 25th in the evening and ask.<br />I truly hope this isn't the case for your friend!<br />- Jeni</p> </li> <li id="wm:mid.1375054538662:9c41ad8fc41e0fdc88"><strong><a id="js_21" href="https://www.facebook.com/vr852401" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=6205593&extragetparams=%7B%7D">[</a>omitted's response]</strong> <p>Well, my friend's wedding was on June 8th and we were supposed to get the pictures by July 14th. The newlyweds started to contact everybody who was present at the wedding for pictures that they took to try to compile an album together, but it was the same thing -- their hard drive crashed. All they have are what everyone else has taken on their cameras or cell phones. It's a shame! I hope you were able to grab some pictures through everyone else!</p> </li> </ul> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>Was the other Wedding, whose images are also missing, like yours a <em>"destination wedding"</em> ?<br> Did you both <em>"book the photographer"</em> through a third party?</p> <p>WW</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelChang Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>Jeni, attorneys will usually give you an initial consultation free of charge. I suggest compiling your story in writing, stating each event in chronological order, with supporting evidence - emails, signed contracts, phone correspondence date/time, etc., and a list of witnesses with contact info. who can corroborate your story. </p> <p>The attorney will then be able to inform you of your rights in your state. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeni_deidre Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>William, </p> <p>I'm not sure. The venue I used had us use their preferred vendors but we paid and worked with the vendors directly. I'm not sure if this was shot somewhere else. She does other venues as well. </p> <p>Thanks Michael Chang. I really thought this was a freak occurrence with just our wedding but if someone else had a wedding the week before, those images should have been backed up properly, right? </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelChang Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>Jeni, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that she's liable for breach of contract of which negligence is a component. Yes, proper backup is part of an expected professional photographer's diligent workflow. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plavchak Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>Very few hard drives can be saved. I had a damaged portable HD. They were able to recover about 10%. If the plates are damaged it's almost always a lost cause. Plus they also said the worst thing to do is attempt to recover it yourself or keep booting it up hoping it will work. They said every time you boot it up you cause more damage. That 10% recovery was $1600.00. I declined and told them to keep it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc444 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 <p>I don't know what your video photographer shot but those could be easily converted into still images.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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