Adding a Third Shooter

[e_rin]

<p>I have a meeting with a client tomorrow to go over some details about her wedding next month. She has expressed interest in adding a third photographer, but we have not gone over any additional costs this may add to her package price. All of my wedding packages include myself and a second shooter, but I have never had a client express interest in adding an extra photographer on top of that, so I don't really know what to charge. I'm not really looking to "make money" by adding this third photographer (especially since the client is a good friend of mine), but since I will be expected to pay the third photographer for their time (12 hours of shooting), I would like to make sure I am being compensated fairly so I can cover those costs without taking a big hit myself. The wedding will be a traditional Indian wedding, so there will be lots to cover, which is why she is interested in possibly adding another photographer.</p>

<p>How would you quote adding an extra photographer? My second shooter typically provides me with 200-300 edited photographs per wedding and we have agreed upon an hourly rate for her services. I would like to pay the third photographer the same hourly rate. How would you approach this issue? Since she is a friend of mine, I was thinking about being honest and telling her how much I pay my second shooter and hoping she'll agree to cover that cost, or at least meet me half way.</p>

<p>What are your thoughts?</p>

[William Michael]

<p>I could/can never see any reason to disclose to a Client or any other party, what I pay to an employee or contractor: I know that such is often done, even in casual conversation with friends and as part of business. It is my view that it is impolite and not correct etiquette so to do. I think this has nothing to do with "honesty" (with your client): but everything to do with "confidentiality" (with your employee).</p>

<p>On the matter of the Client being your friend and assuming that the Client has indicated the costs of your packages are acceptable, (whichever package she chooses) – then it is really your call as to whether you add the third photographer and charge the client less than what it cost you so to do.</p>

<p>But I would ask you this question: let’s assume for example you pay the a second shooter $600 for 12 hours coverage and editing . . . If the Client did <em>NOT</em> ask about a third shooter, were you thinking about knocking a further $300 off any of your packages - just because the Client is your friend?</p>

<p>***</p>

<blockquote>

<p>How would you quote adding an extra photographer? How would you approach this issue?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Specifically – Before I met with the Client I would have a third Photographer lined-up (ready to go), and the service, hours and fee agreed with that third Photographer.</p>

<p>At the meeting with the CLIENT - I would simply say to the Client something along the lines of:<br /><br />“I have retained the services of a third Photographer, the Third Photographer is this person (brief description and etc) and will cost this much (insert amount that it was costing me)”<br /><br />“Do you want me to go ahead and make a contract with her?”<br /><br />“I don’t want to keep him on a string for too long I said I would get back to her by tomorrow morning - with a definitive answer.”</p>

<p>WW</p>

[e_rin]

<p>You made a really good point about knocking money off my packages just because the client was my friend. I guess I hadn't really thought about it that way before. When we originally met up to go over the pricing and contract, I hadn't given her any discounted pricing compared to my other prospective clients. I approached the situation knowing that she was a friend, who valued and appreciated my work, and I gave her my standard prices hoping that she would respect them. If she had asked about a discount, I would have politely declined because I feel that my prices are fair for all of my time and effort.</p>

<p>I really like your approach to the meeting as well. I have a third photographer lined up with the hours and payment all agreed upon and will take your advice. Thank you so much for your response!</p>

[grh]

<p>This is where you can also provide an opportunity to a newbie whose skill meets your requirements. If you know anyone that wants to gain experience, you can often get them for free. However, you'd want to be sure they could deliver. If not, then hiring someone, per the above advice, is the way to go. I would also suggest that the additional shooter will create additional images that require additional time to edit. A flat increase for just their time may not be adequate (unless they're delivering edited images along with the RAW files). Not clear on which is the case.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>You're welcome.<br />I think it's good to strive to keep business simple, to the point, unemotional and within the rules of etiquette - it's easy to overthink simple things and to make them complex - we all do that . . .</p>

<p>***<br /><br />FWIW. . . if YOU choose to give your friend a gift, then it is my view that, after she (they) view the previews, you give her (them) a mounted and framed hand finished print - of an image they really raved about. Present it as a surprise. It should be an example of your finest work and high quality printing, mounting and framing.<br />There are a few reasons for this, some key points are: a discount will be forgotten - the Photograph will always be a reminder; you had to do something EXTRA to make the gift for her (them) - to apply a discount you do nothing, yourself.<br />Even considering only these two interactions and associations it is easy to see how rendering such a gift will be more a meaningful indication of friendship to ALL the parties which were involved.<br />There are many more reasons, too - but its not necessary to gabble on here about them.</p>

<p>Good luck with it.</p>

<p>WW</p>

<p> </p>

[rick_m.]

<p>I second what Wolter said. I would NEVER tell a client what I pay another shooter. Here is why. Clients are good at math. Let's use Wolter's number and say you pay the second shooter $600.00 and lets assume that you charge $1800.00 for the wedding. Instantly the client knows what you are personally making for the wedding. They will inevitably ask themselves if you are worth that. They have to assume that you think pretty highly of someone who second shoots. In other words you are saying that a good photographer who meets my standards can be had for $600.00 but I charge $1200.00.</p>

<p>You should not only charge full price for the third shooter you should mark up what you pay them to make a profit on them. So if you are paying a third shooter $600.00 you should charge $800 or perhaps more to the client. </p>

<p>In my opinion you should never tell anyone a cost of doing business. You may think that they will keep it in confidence but I can just about guarantee you that they won't. They will tell the MOB, who will tell her good friend and pretty soon it will be common knowledge just what (in this case) a good photographer is worth.</p>

<p>One more point. I would be very concerned about this client. I am always wary about doing gigs for friends. They expect friend prices and lots of extras. I might go so far as to say that you really have to hire a third shooter now. If you don't, and your friend wants to complain all they have to say is "I told you I wanted a third shooter and you talked me out of it. Now I don't have a shot of my second cousin Amy who skateboarded in from New Mexico". Any client who wants a third shooter will be a VERY demanding one. </p>

<p>Good luck with this. </p>

<p> </p>

[savagesax]

Ask the bride if she wants a 3rd shooter for the entire wedding. I noticed it's a 12 hour wedding. I'm thinking that this is a fairly large wedding, perhaps special religious practices.

 

I don't think I've ever used 3 photographers, but this may be something special, such as 500 or more guests. The nice part with 3 shooters is you get breaks and less stress. The next day you will feel more rested for sure.

 

I'd probably charge 75 per hour for the 3rd shooter.

[rick_chen]

<p>I typically tell clients 3rd shooters provide additional angles and coverage, but I still have to do all the post processing and touchup. They are pictures under my company.<br>

Would never tell them how much I pay my shooters, just tell them upfront how much a 3rd shooter will cost, depending on the experience of the shooter. I know photogs with 20 years experience, 10 or 2 years. I bring in a 3rd shooter, or even a 4th shooter sometimes that speak the client's language which I dont happen to speak, to communicate better with their family</p>

[daverhaas]

<p>Plus 1 to William's excellent advice. </p>

<p>I've never had a 3rd shooter, but have done a couple of Hindu ceremonies where one would have been nice - as people tend to move, block views, crowd the couple, etc... plus if it is a traditional ceremony the bride and groom don't see each other until well after the "ceremony" has started. </p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[michaelmowery]

<p>1st shooter, 2nd shooter and 3rd shooter is all the same. My rate is the same if I am 1st, 2nd or 10th photographer. Charge an hourly rate per photographer with a minimum amount of hours generally 6hrs. You make is sound like the third shooter will be your niece. It is different if you are going to add a non paid intern or student as the third photographer which in this case might not be a bad idea. </p>

[fotografz]

<p>Your business is just that … your business. </p>

<p>The first question I'd ask is why a third shooter? Why does this client think they need another photographer? Is there some indication in their time line that points out why?</p>

<p>I've frequently used two assistants at a big wedding with a tight time line and/or multiple locations, but 9 times out of ten one is a second shooter, and the other is an assistant that allows me to improve the quality of the photos with off-camera lighting, rather than just increasing the quantity. </p>

<p>- Marc</p>