Bokeh characteristics of popular portrait lenses: 85mm-200mm

ilkka_nissila · February 27, 2013

The DC Nikkors have a very strong distance-dependent focus offset. They also have an image wide open from which it is very difficult to determine where the correct focus is. I wouldn't say that they get really reliable in terms of AF performance no matter what you do with them, but I love their rendering so much I use them nevertheless. The misfocused results are unfortunate but the best results I get with them, I love the images to death.

I would do some focus fine tune testing with the 105 DC at the intended distances (repeat the focus trials several times with each fine tune setting, say with intervals of 3 or 5 points, plot a scatter graph of the sharpest point in the 45 degree ruler of a target you use; I use Spyder LensCal) and then only after that form your conclusions about what kind of results can be obtained. But there are aberrations in these lenses which cause AF havoc, and there is nothing you can do to entirely eliminate them. Sell them? No way would I do that. But I will be first in line to purchase any replacements that Nikon introduces with the AF issues solved.

studio460 · February 27, 2013

Ilkka said:

The DC Nikkors have a very strong distance-dependent focus offset. They also have an image wide open from which it is very difficult to determine where the correct focus is.

</blockquote>

So my 105mm DC isn't "broken?" I seem to be doing something wrong, then. Sometimes it's very sharp, others, its focus is just way off. I'll try what you suggest (I believe I already have a huge AF fine-tune correction value set in my D800E--maybe it's just incorrect). Thanks for your suggestions.

Andrew Garrard · February 27, 2013

The focus was way off with my 135 DC quite a lot of the time too - but then mine may or may not be ill. Stopping down helped a bit (because it could miss by more). Combined with the LoCA issues, missing focus was particularly frustrating (the subject lights up in colours to tell you when the focus is off - I suggested to Nikon a while back that their finder screen could do this to give better manual focus feedback, but I wasn't expecting it from the lenses!) I suspect live view might help, especially if you manual focus.

studio460 · February 27, 2013

Andrew said:

The focus was way off with my 135 DC quite a lot of the time too - but then mine may or may not be ill . . .

</blockquote>

Yes, user error, or not, I think my 105mm DC's AF is unreliable enough not to trust it anymore (at least, not for "important" work). My guess is that for whatever reason, the DC lenses just aren't entirely happy operating with modern AF sensors. However, at the same time, others have gotten good results with these lenses. I'll probably still hang on to it, but likely won't be shooting with it very often anymore. When I have the time, I'll try experimenting/troubleshooting further.

studio460 · February 27, 2013

I said:

Conclusions:

To summarize:

Sigma 150mm f/2.8 = head-and-shoulder portraits, headshots, close-ups. 85mm f/1.4, 105mm f/2.0 DC, 70-200mm f/2.8 = mid- to full-length, shallow-focus, on-location fashion/editorial shots. 85mm f/1.4 = large-aperture, available-light, high-ISO photography.

</blockquote>

Yup, I just shot some quick tests . . . the Sigma 150mm's working distance for full-length shots is a bit far, about 35 feet. The 85mm f/1.4G should work much better for mid- and full-length shots, plus I'll be able to throw the background out-of-focus easier with the 85mm if I open all the way up to f/1.4 (difficult, I know--the model's eyes must be perfectly parallel to my image plane).

But, currently, I'm eliminating my 105mm DC from my "active" shooting inventory (it just won't be in my bag anymore), and since the 70-200mm, at 200mm, will require even more working distance for full-length shots, I'm going to delete that for the moment as well. So, now I'll end up with just two short-teles in my bag:

A.) Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G = mid- to full-length, shallow-focus, on-location fashion/editorial shots. B.) Sigma 150mm f/2.8 = head-and-shoulder portraits, headshots, close-ups.

Andrew Garrard · February 28, 2013

<blockquote>the Sigma 150mm's working distance for full-length shots is a bit far, about 35 feet.</blockquote>

I concur - if my 135 behaved better, it would be a useful length for portraits. I do find the 200mm a little inconveniently remote, so I treat the 150mm as an improvement. I tend to shoot candids - sometimes the length helps. Often, I'm shooting table sports (tiddlywinks, specifically), and I don't want to set off a loud mirror clatter right next to the table and distract the player; unfortunately, by conscientiously backing off a few metres, it's amazing how often someone will walk between me and the subject (and usually stand there for a better view). Which I guess means that I must be unobtrusive... Still, the difference between 135 and 150 is fairly small, and at least the 150 focuses close (which the 200 f/2 doesn't).

michael_bradtke · February 28, 2013

I think I will just hang onto my 135mm f/2 DC as I have not had any of the problems you folks are having. Mine must have been built on a Wednesday

luke_kaven · February 28, 2013

I actually gave up using autofocus for most things. I can think of exactly zero times when the autofocus sensor actually was in the place where it was needed. And why would it ever be? And with focus-recompose-leanback, one just misses too many things. Folks can feel free to send me all their screwdrive lenses.

studio460 · February 28, 2013

Luke said:

I actually gave up using autofocus for most things. I can think of exactly zero times when the autofocus sensor actually was in the place where it was needed.

</blockquote>

I was actually floored when I witnessed the focus accuracy of my Sigma 150mm. No AF-fine tune necessary--it just focused--right where I aimed the AF sensor (all this, on a D800E, no less). Not only is it accurate, it's near-instantaneous, even if there's lot of distance change required. The OS is wicked-fast also. I think the Sigma actually out-performs my AF-S Nikkors.

And with focus-recompose-leanback, one just misses too many things

</blockquote>

I've found focus-recompose to be very inaccurate in my experience. Now, I only shoot single-point, AF-C, using the AF-ON button only. I even compromise my composition just to super-impose an active AF-point over my subject's eyes. Shooting this way, my focus is spot-on 99% of the time (unless I'm shooting with my 105mm DC, of course).

studio460 · February 28, 2013

Michael said:

I think I will just hang onto my 135mm f/2 DC as I have not had any of the problems you folks are having.

</blockquote>

Which body are you using it on?

scott_murphy5 · February 28, 2013

Although mine is an AIS, you can't go wrong with an 85mm f/1.4 Nikkor. The bokeh on it is as smooth as butter. I am assuing, though I could be wrong, that the optical formula of the AF lenses is the same as that of the AIS. The AIS is so sharp, it is almost too sharp for some applications. It is always easier to knock the sharpness down a little than to add more of it, because you run the risk of introducing artifacts.

luke_kaven · March 1, 2013

I even compromise my composition just to super-impose an active AF-point over my subject's eyes.

</blockquote>

If I might offer a view on this. Putting your composition exactly to the creative demands of the image itself at the given moment and without compromise is probably the most important thing in photography. Your creative freedom is the thing that will get your work noticed. I can always tell, as can any good editor, when someone has been letting the camera tell them what to do.

studio460 · March 1, 2013

Michael said:

I think I will just hang onto my 135mm f/2 DC as I have not had any of the problems you folks are having.

</blockquote>

Michael--I think I'll hang on to mine as well!

Well, boy is my face red! Due to "user error" I came to some hasty conclusions with my 105mm DC:

<img src="http://studio460.com/studio460/105dof2.jpg" alt="" /> Nikon D800E + AF DC-Nikkor 105mm f/2.0D @ f/2.0, R-2

<img src="http://studio460.com/studio460/105dof1.jpg" alt="" /> [100% crop]

studio460 · March 1, 2013

Nikon D800E + AF DC-Nikkor 105mm f/2.0D @ f/2.0; R-2

[100% crop]

[100% crop]

studio460 · March 1, 2013

Scott said:

Although mine is an AIS, you can't go wrong with an 85mm f/1.4 Nikkor. The bokeh on it is as smooth as butter.

</blockquote>

I couldn't agree more--after looking at the results of some of my tests, the 85mm f/1.4 has produced my bokeh "top-pick" (as well as that of the 70-200mm f/2.8). The 85mm's fast aperture allows for very buttery backgrounds with minmal background distance. Unlike, the 70-200mm, however, the 85mm's balance on a full-frame camera is near-perfect.

michael_bradtke · March 1, 2013

Ralph I use my 135mm f/2.DC on everything from my F3's to my D4. I had the most issue with sharpness using it on my D300's. I had to play around with the DC controls to get the 135 to be sharper wide open. The only camera I have that is not happy with it is my IR modified D200. The 135 DC has a nasty hot spot in IR. But I have a 135 f/2.8 AI that works just fine in IR so its not a big deal

mike_halliwell · March 1, 2013

Anyone notice that people love to shoot rulers when checking focal point? I guess it's so you can tell front and back focus in a relative frame to frame comparison, but it's almost useless to see exactly where the sharpest point is?

Occasionally when a piece of very fine woven fabric happens to be in the 'zone', as it were, it's very obvious where that point is. I suppose it's something to do with the frequency of the threads in phase with the sensor matrix in a almost moire way. That would make the 'is the 26 or 27 sharper?' a more manageable task.

Maybe a fabric strip attached down the side of the ruler would do it?

wogears · March 1, 2013

I always forget how important the blur is. I have even been known to STOP DOWN a lens. How's that for radical? Anyway, I used a lens for this one--probably the 105 f2.5 Nikkor P (Ai'd)--but I'm never sure which one.<div>

00bP4y-522701684.jpg.c0ba6fc4b291ec0a3d79f5af4179a0f9.jpg

</div>

studio460 · March 2, 2013

Will re-post tests later.

studio460 · March 2, 2013

AF DC-Nikkor 105mm f/2.0D retraction:

Just to be clear, my earlier, largely negative, conclusions about my AF DC-Nikkor 105mm f/2.0D were erroneous. The lens at R-2 is very sharp, and its auto-focus appears to be working correctly on my D800E.

studio460 · March 3, 2013

Sigma 150mm f/2.8 OS @ f/3.0 @ 12'

AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G @ f/1.4 @ 5.8'

AF DC-Nikkor 105mm f/2.0D @ f/2.0; R-2 @ 7.3'

studio460 · March 3, 2013

[Note: ambient exposures are not shot at same ISOs or apertures]

studio460 · March 3, 2013

AF DC-Nikkor 105mm f/2.0D @ f/2.0; R-5.6 @ 7.3'

studio460 · March 3, 2013

Conclusions Part II:

The AF-S 85mm f/1.4G and DC-Nikkor 150mm f/2.0D exhibit surprsingly similar bokeh characteristics (again, ignore exposure differences in the ambient background LED ornaments). That said, I don't see any advantage to shooting the 105mm DC over the 85mm f/1.4. The AF-S 85mm focuses faster and more accurately under low-light conditions, and is as sharp at f/1.4 as the DC lens is at 2.0. Of course, the 105mm DC really takes on its "DC" character when the 'R' value is set past its actual aperture value.

The 105mm DC really does have a difficult time focusing in poor lighting, with, again, a less than 50% success rate in this series. However, under well-lit targets, the 105mm DC focuses accurately, and is able to produce sharp images with high acutance, despite its "DC" nature. All lenses were focusing under same, extremely low lighting conditions.

Of all three mid-teles tested, the Sigma 150mm f/2.8 OS consistently outperformed the others in both sharpness and focus accuracy at their respective maximum apertures. Now, recall I'm comparing each lens at their maximum aperture (which varies from f/1.4 to f/3.0), so while this really isn't a "fair" statement, it was the objective of this admittedly narrowly defined excercise. The Sigma, at maximum aperture, reads out at only f/3.0, so it has a bit of an advantage over the fast f/1.4 maximum aperture of the 85mm lens. Curiously, all three lenses do exhibit the asymmetrical blur circles in the corners, a "defect" I first condemned the Sigma alone for initially.

To summarize:

1. Sigma f/2.8 OS

This is now my "No. 1" FX portrait lens of choice--my go-to mid-tele for shooting head-and-shoulder portraits, headshots, and close-ups. Its fast, accurate AF-S style focusing and image-stabilization make it easy to shoot sharp, in-focus portraits, nearly 100% of the time. It also has perhaps the ideal amount of compression for headshots, at least for my tastes.

2. AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G

Obviously, the low-light champ, but with only adequate performance wide-open. A speedy performer for mid- and full-length portraits with an adequate amount of compression, and also a convenient working distance. Extremely sharp past f/2.0. Also, a pleasure to hold on an FX body.

3. AF DC-Nikkor f/2.0D

Since its bokeh at "neutral" DC settings (where the 'R' value matches the actual aperture) isn't significantly different from that of the 85mm f/1.4's, and its AF less-accurate under low-light, I'll again relegate this lens for use only when its exaggerated "DC" effect is desired (where the 'R' value is set beyond the actual aperture value being used).

studio460 · March 3, 2013

Sigma 150mm f/2.8 OS @ f/3.0 @ 3.5'

Sigma 150mm f/2.8 OS @ f/3.0 @ 6.9'

Sigma 150mm f/2.8 OS @ f/3.0 @ 12'

Sign In

Bokeh characteristics of popular portrait lenses: 85mm-200mm

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Posted Images

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in