Bokeh characteristics of popular portrait lenses: 85mm-200mm

eric_arnold · February 20, 2013

i really like ralph's shots in this thread, especially the 35/2 one. i think it's fine to have obsessive-compulsive NAS as long as it results in great shots. sure you could just shoot with the lenses one already owns, but what would be the fun in that? seriously, i need to re-evaluate the tokina 100 for bokeh, as it's rarely used. but my top two 'bokeh' lenses are the 50 and 85 sigma 1.4s. should be getting the sigma 35 when they get back in stock. i also have the 70-200 VRII and it performs as expected, but to me that's more of an event/action lens than something i would primarily use for bokeh (though it does that well). part of the dilemma in questing for long lens bokeh is that there are only two nikkors past 105mm which go below 2.8.i'd personally rather have the 135 DC than the 105, but as i said before, i have the tokina 100 already, and i can always shoot the 85/1.4 on DX, making it a 127.5mm FL equivalent. so i dont see a huge need in this area.

also, for DX shooters, the relatively inexpensive tokina 35/2.8 macro has excellent bokeh and better sharpness than the nikon 35/1.8 and the sigma 30/1.4. it also focuses super-close, which is sometimes a factor in achieving that dreamy OoF effect.

ofey_kalakar · February 21, 2013

That 35 f1.4 AiS is a fantastic lens and yes the bokeh is smooth.<div>

00bNBE-521009584.jpg.e4834a6940a1332d3818302a52579ae9.jpg

</div>

Wouter Willemse · February 21, 2013

Eric, I was really surprised with the Tokina 100mm. I knew it was smooth, just not that smooth. And yet, still, still.... oh, that darned 105 f/2.5. It just got something more, to my eyes at least - not so much the OoF rendering, but how it smoothly goes from in focus to OoF. Well, no news I am a fan of that lens. So my Tokina sees far less work that it actually deserves.

Good, christmas trees, really useful photogear-test-device! Please do note I made these shots mostly for my own fun on a rainy evening, no scientific test of any kind. Nor are these photos meant to be nice or good-looking. There is no testing method beyond looking at how blob-by the lightblobs would render.

All shots with a D300 on a tripod, focussed on the x-mas coffee cup. The tree was some 2 metres behind. No post-processing done, except a change of picture profile to Neutral in ViewNX2, and saves from ViewNX2 as a 700px wide JPEG (so these are the complete photos, no crops).

50mm f/1.8D, at f/2.8:

50 f/1.8G at f/2.8:

Wouter Willemse · February 21, 2013

And on to the longer lenses:

AF-D 85mm f/1.8, at f/4:

Tokina ATX-Pro 100mm f/2.8 Macro, at f/4:

AiS 105mm f/2.5, at f/4:

Ai'ed 105 f/2.5P, at f/4:

The last two surprised me - those two lenses should be identical, except that the AiS has better coatings, which should make wide aperture performance better (which is true, in my view). But strangely, it looks like the shape of the apertures blades is not identical - my preference goes to the older Ai-converted lens.

I did also try with the 180mm f/2.8, 80-200 f/2.8 and 300 f/4, but I ran out of space really.

Well, it's just a bunch of silly test shots and I was bored, but it does help me remind to use the Tokina more, and it sure convinced me that getting the 50mm f/1.8G, even though I dislike 50mm on DX, was not a stupid impulse buy.... Now that I got a D700 instead, I am happy I got this 50mm, it's a really nice lens for little money.

studio460 · February 21, 2013

Wouter said . . .

Well, it's just a bunch of silly test shots and I was bored . . .

</blockquote>

Not at all! Thanks for shooting those! Those make for a valuable reference, that's potentially very useful to others making these decisions. Thank you!

studio460 · February 21, 2013

AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G VR I @ 200mm @ f/2.8

AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G VR I @ 200mm @ f/2.8

AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G VR I @ 200mm @ f/2.8

studio460 · February 21, 2013

First, let me thank everyone for their replies (as well as the kind words about my photos--thanks!). I appreciate everyone's comments, and I especially enjoy seeing others' sample images (keep 'em coming!).

Based on these quick tests I shot a few minutes ago (above), happily, I'm extremely pleased with the bokeh of my seldom-used 70-200mm f/2.8 VR (perhaps, I'll end up using it more often now). I like the compression of 200mm on FX, and would even like a bit more. The only problem is its unwieldy bulk for handholding (I feel tripods are too restrictive for portraiture).

Another option, which I hadn't previously considered, is my AF Nikkor 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D ED VR. Decent bokeh at the long end, and obviously, lots of compression. It's slightly easier to handhold, since it's a bit lighter than the 70-200mm, plus, I already own it! I think this lens is too-often underrated--I actually find it to be quite sharp.

studio460 · February 21, 2013

C.P.M. said:

. . . but Bokeh-wise (and when more distance is not a problem) the 300mm F4 AF-S wins, maybe by a small [margin], but used wisely and wide open it [definitely] beats the rest of the lenses mentioned . . .

</blockquote>

Very interesting comments! Yes, actually, I think the 300mm f/4 would probably be awesome for portraits (I wasn't aware of its superior bokeh performance), except for its missing VR capability. That's one of the prime reasons I've decided against buying the longer DC lens, the 135mm (at least for the moment).

. . . tried the 50mm fast lenses (love the 1.2 AI-s, but it has its limitations), the 85mm 1.4D, also verrryy nice, the 135DC also love that although it also has some faults (CA) which limit its usage . . .

</blockquote>

Regarding the Ais glass--yes, I'm going to do some tests with my 50mm f/1.2 Ais on an FX body very soon--if it's anything like the 35mm f/1.4 Ais on the DX body, that should be interesting. However, modern Nikkor auto-focus 50mm lenses tend to exhibit very "tight" bokeh, which I find very distracting.

studio460 · February 21, 2013

FX: Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 Ais @ f/1.2

FX: Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 Ais @ f/1.2

studio460 · February 21, 2013

Mike said:

Ralph, pop one of the Kenko DG (AF) tubes on your 70-200mm. Works well. The 'effect' of the tube length varies with lens focal length, takes a bit of getting used to, but that's normal behaviour! VR works on my VRII, and 105mm VR macro.

</blockquote>

Ah, thanks! The Nikon extension tubes don't support AF. So, I guess I may be getting a set of the Kenko DG tubes ($199) to reduce my minimum focus distance with my 70-200mm:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/375238-REG/Kenko_AEXTUBEDGN_Auto_Extension_Tube_Set.html

But, I only need a tiny bit closer-focusing on the 70-200mm, and the Kenko DG set, at its minimum, includes only a 12mm tube. Do you have any idea what the stop-loss is at 12mm? I would rather use a close-up filter to avoid any light loss, plus maintain optimal AF and VR function--anyone tried these? How badly do they degrade your optics?

studio460 · February 21, 2013

So, alternatively, I'm also thinking of getting the Canon 77mm, two-element, 500D close-up filter ($144.95) for my AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G VR I zoom instead, to reduce my minimum focus distance. A quick Google search revealed a couple of opinions (including Canon's own endorsement, of course) which stated that the two-element design shouldn't degrade optical quality very much:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/87503-REG/Canon_2824A001_77mm_500D_Close_up_Lens.html

Now, my only questions are if my 70-200mm Nikkor's AF and VR will still function with this attached? (I'm also wildly curious by how much this will shorten my minimum focus distance.)

studio460 · February 21, 2013

FYI:

Here's a great discussion thread which discusses both the Kenko DG extension tubes, and Canon 500D close-up filter, specifically for use with an AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G VR lens.:

http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00Apht

eric_arnold · February 22, 2013

I knew it was smooth, just not that smooth.

</blockquote>

see? it's comments like that make me want to use it more. just wondering, what are people's thoughts on the sigma 70 macro and the voigtlander 40/2, strictly for bokeh purposes?

studio460 · February 22, 2013

Playing with my Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 Ais a bit more just shooting my desk, I'm finding its out-of-focus characteristics fascinating. I think I'll buy the Canon 500D diopter and use it on this lens as well:

Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 Ais @ f/1.2

Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 Ais @ f/1.2

studio460 · February 22, 2013

Michael said:

Before you buy the Nikon 35mm f/1.4 G read the reviews on the Sigma 35mm f/1.4. In fact if you are interested send me an email and I would be happy to FTP a couple of RAW files to you.

</blockquote>

Rick said:

+1 on the Sigma 35mm . . . Online reviews and test charts is showing the Sigma about 10-15% better in sharpness than the nikkor, and they both have very similar characteristics in terms of center and edge sharpness.

</blockquote>

Thanks for the head's-up on the new Sigma 35mm f/1.4! Currently, with Nikon's $200 instant-rebate promotion, the Nikkor sells for $1,449, vs. Sigma's price of $899--still a $550 difference. Yes, it's apparently been very positively reviewed. Plus the aesthetics of the "Art" series build looks nice. Now, I'm just wondering about the subtleties of their differences in bokeh-rendering.

studio460 · February 22, 2013

[Excuse the somewhat off-topic post; still, it's discussing bokeh characteristics of various other lenses presented here.]

I found some bokeh examples of the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 (which looked very nice--better than Canon's equivalent), but no direct comparisons with the AF-S Nikkor 35mm f/1.4G. However, DxO's database does not yet contain a lens profile for the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 (though, I suspect they will at some point due to the apparent popularity of this product). Unfortunately, that fact alone may be enough to swing me back to the pricey Nikkor.

studio460 · February 22, 2013

So, to sum up:

1. I'm returning my Sigma 150mm /2.8 macro (which I planned to use as a portrait lens) due to its "swirling" bokeh anomalies. 2. Instead, I've discovered that I'm super happy with my AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G VR--excellent bokeh, terrifically sharp. 3. I'm purchasing a Canon 500D diopter to decrease my minimum focus distance with my Nikkor 70-200mm. 4. I plan to continue to experiment with ultra-fast Ais lenses for their unique bokeh qualities. 5. I'll be considering the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 and AF-S Nikkor 35mm f/1.4G lenses to fill the gap in my set of primes.*

*[Although a separate topic (discussed at length in another thread), I've decided to fill-out my prime lens array with a 35mm f/1.4, rather than purchase a new short-zoom.]

So, my final Nikon 800E "portfolio-quality" lens arsenal will include:

14mm f/2.8 24mm f/1.4 35mm f/1.4 85mm f/1.4 70-200mm f/2.8 [using it primarily at 200mm].

Thankfully, each of these are now supported by a lens-specific DxO profile for use with DxO Optics Pro 8 for OS X, my current RAW developer of choice.

I'll still shoot with my AF DC-Nikkor 105mm f/2.0D when I want the unique effect offered by this lens, and will probably always pine for the 135mm DC, too. Plus, I also now see a lot of new creative applications for my largely un-used collection of Ais primes . . . this thread has helped me think through a lot of interesting options. Thanks for everyone's contributions!

studio460 · February 22, 2013

Ofey said:

That 35 f1.4 AiS is a fantastic lens and yes the bokeh is smooth.

</blockquote>

Ofey, that 50mm Summilux bokeh is gorgeous!

luke_kaven · February 22, 2013

Isn't the +2 diopter close-up lens just for macro photography? I don't think you can focus further than 60-70cm out with that. Fine for the purpose, but I thought you were looking to decrease the minimum focus for tight portraits. Wouldn't an extension ring of 8mm or so be best for that?

michael_bradtke · February 22, 2013

Ralph Instead of a diopter lens which might change the look of the lens look into a very short extension tube. If you use the Kenko tubes you get full control over the lens from the body. If you want even shorter if you can find a K1 ring for a reasonable price you will be good to go. This was shot with my Sigma 120-300 f/2.8 on a 12 mm extension tube

michael_bradtke · February 22, 2013

Ok so here is a shot I just did. D4 Sigma 120-300 f/2.8 on a Kenko 12mm extension tube<div>

</div>

scott_murphy5 · February 22, 2013

I am assuming (but may be wrong, there is a first time for everything) that the optical formula for the 85mm AF Nikkors is the same as the AIS, which I have. I still have been unable to find a lens with as smooth a bokeh as that lens.

studio460 · February 22, 2013

Michael that looks great! There are two ways to reduce your minimum focus distance with a given lens: an extension tube, or a diopter (close-up filter). Here's what I know, and don't know about these:

Kenko DG extension tubes:

1. No loss in optical quality. 2. Light-loss incurred. 3. AF still functions with Kenko DG extension tubes (though, some have reported that AF-S lenses do not?). 4. VR/OS still fully functional?

Canon 500D Diopter:

1. Slight degradation in optical quality. 2. No loss in light-gathering ability. 3. AF works? 4. VR works?

I believe both AF and VR is still functional with a diopter such as the Canon 500D attached to an AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G VR, for example, but I have no confirmation of this. Also, I believe infinity focus is somehow affected, but otherwise, I think the full, normal range of focusing is still available.

luke_kaven · February 22, 2013

Ralph, I'd double-check. I think the close-up lens will reduce your furthest focus to a maximum of 60-70 centimeters out or so, depending upon the focal length you're at.

michael_bradtke · February 22, 2013

Ralph

AFS works with the Kenko tubes and I would guess VR would too. Light loss with the 12mm tube is minimal easily compensated for with a slight boost in ISO.

And on the plus side it will work for all of you Nikon lenses.

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