Light Leak or Development Problem?

baisao · November 4, 2012

I shot a roll of Delta 100 yesterday and found these marks on my film. I used a M6 'Classic' (early model from Wetzlar w/out plastic bumbers), a 50mm Summircon ver. IV, in a Leicatime halfcase.

The film was developed in a Paterson tank, manually agitated 180° with quarter turn (first 30 seconds, then 10 seconds every minute, then for the last 30 seconds). Developer was DD-X (1+4) @ 10 min.

These marks appear on half the roll, dispersed from end to end. Sun was bright. Vertical orientation was with the VF to the top. did not change lens. Film was loaded in a dark bar. Roll shot during 30-45 minutes.

So are these marks caused by development or light leaks? I have never had this issue before.

Thanks in advance!

john_shriver · November 4, 2012

Were you shooting at 1/1000 second? Could be shutter capping, with the slot so thin that the roughness of the edge becomes a significant part of the slit width.

Or, it could be agitation. I have no trust of intermittent rotary agitation. Inversion for me.

baisao · November 4, 2012

Thanks for the quick response, John. I am inverting 180° vertically and rotating a quarter turn each inversion (as Ansel Adams describes), not rotating with the swizzle stick. I learned that lesson recently! So these were inversions, of maybe 5-7 times per 10 seconds.

I had 10oz of developer in the tank, which is what is called for with 35mm for this tank.

I don't think I was shooting at 1/1000th in most of these. I was trying to maximize my DoF and needed longer exposures. The film was rated to 125 ASA and I had a 4x Yellow filter on the lens. I was shooting between f8-f16. I don't think I exceeded 1/500th in most cases.

aplumpton · November 4, 2012

There are two or three things here, unless I am mistaken. The fuzzy black ends, the periodic and parallel multiple streaks throughout the frame, and the image spill over into the top and bottom edges.

Haven't seen this before either, but it might be development related (especially the lengthwise faint streaks), or could it be somehow related to your scanning procedure or equipment?

Might be interesting to see the full film width including the sprocket holes.

baisao · November 4, 2012

Arthur, you bring up interesting points. I had not noticed those other two problems. I don't have a flatbed scanner to show you the rebates. At this point I am most interested in the lengthwise streaks.

Looking at these just now I notice that the left and right margins look faintly darker and a bit distorted ("fuzzy black ends"?).

I just took these negatives out and do not see any thinness at the ends. I didn't use a loupe but thinness should have been easily apparent at the ends under a strong light, which is what I just did.

As I understand it this suggests that the black edges may be from my scanner, Nikon CoolScan IV.

However, the streaks are visible on the negs.

philip_wilson · November 4, 2012

There do appear to be multiple issues - in the first ferris wheel shot there is a clear bright stipe on the RHS. Is the difference in colour and contrast due to your scanning or do the negatives look like this. The last image has a sepia tone. Just to eliminate any issues - how old is the film and how was it stored? Can you also say where on the film the images you have posted are from (frame number)

baisao · November 4, 2012

Here is what I saw/didn't see on the negative, explained in my post at 10:12 PM

baisao · November 4, 2012

Philip, I do not see any stain. I've seen this on all my scanned negs and it has bugged me why some are stained looking and others are blue-grey.

The film was purchased from a photography store last week. They have high turnover on film which is great. The film was stored in the box, in a dedicated closet in my study until the day it was shot. Then it was placed in a pocket of my camera bag.

In order of apperance, the frame numbers of of the above photos are: 19, 29, 13, and 12. I start to see the streaks at frame 9 and runs the length of the roll.

The "dark ends" appear in every scanned shot beginning 3 rolls ago. I just verified that those "dark ends" appear in scans of film taken with a different camera. So, "dark ends" is the scanner. Now to figure out what is causing the streaks.

Would tiny amounts of residual Photo-Flo cause this? I rinse my tank with hot tap water each dev cycle.

jim_jones3 · November 5, 2012

Do you wipe the film lenthwise before drying?

Gus Lazzari · November 5, 2012

"125 ASA and I had a 4x Yellow filter on the lens. I was shooting between f8-f16" Jim T.

</blockquote>

This combination of exposure even in bright sunshine distinct shadows, clearly puts the shutter speeds into the NON-Slit width speeds. Streaking from chemical processing is usually vertical to the film reels with film situated horizontally. My vote goes to a scan bar that's oscillating.

(Poor and/or sporadic motor smoothness on your Nikon CoolScan IV) Make sure room temp is on the warm side.

Can you see with the naked eye these irregularities on the actual negative?

baisao · November 5, 2012

Jim, I did not wipe and I use distilled water with Photo Flo during my last step.

Gus, I can see the streaks on the negatives with the naked eye. The "dark ends" seem like a scanner issue whereas the streaks are on the negatives.

saintelmo21 · November 5, 2012

Jim, it looks like some sort of problem in your development process to my far from expert eye. Sometimes 'sh*t happens' and we never know exactly what went wrong. Maybe you mixed the developer incorrectly, maybe your fixer is so old, it's got mold (that's a joke). I think you should shoot another roll, and redo everything according to your normal development process as soon as possible. Then, you can see if this anamoly repeats itself or if it was a one-off mistake some how.

What do you think about that?

baisao · November 5, 2012

E. Short, my fixer is reasonably fresh and strained every time. My DD-X stock is getting old, though I used it successfully just last week. The stock bottle has some orange crystals in the bottom. I am careful not to let those get into the mixed developer. The DD-X started of clear as I recall but is very slightly straw colored now.

I keep all liquids sealed with a cloak of argon on top. Mixed chemicals like stop and fixer are in Delta 1 bottles, under the sink.

I am getting a roll of color tomorrow from the lab which may tell me if it is the camera of the developing process. I am also running a roll of the same film lot that streaked but that may be ready later this week.

I am really hoping this is not a shutter problem but a developing problem I can fix with technique.

This is from the same bottle of DD-X, same dilution, developed late last week and using the same development routine (except 6 minute fix rather than 4 minute because this was T-grain):

saintelmo21 · November 6, 2012

Definitely nothing wrong with that one, Jim!

baisao · November 6, 2012

Thanks, E. Short! This leads me to think that my aging developer is just fine.

baisao · November 6, 2012

Ok, so I got the fil I shot just before the failed roll. It was shot with the same camera moments before I shot the messed-up B&W roll, but was developed by the pro lab. It is Provia 100 shot at box speed. I don't see dark edges and there are no streaks horizontal to the frame.

philip_wilson · November 7, 2012

Jim this one has me baffled. My only though is that perhaps you have hard water and somehow during the process (fixing

or washing) the hard water left streaks on the film. You say you use distiller water so this should not be the problem but I

live in a hard water area and have seen streaking due to the water not being washed off properly. If that is not it I am

running out of ideas.

aplumpton · November 7, 2012

The good thing is that it is not the camera. Jim, someone mentioned the type of agitation (lengthwise rotation versus inversion up and down, etc.), but if you always use that and do not experience streaking with it, then that possibility is out. I assume that the film wasn't X-rayed at an airport at some point. Some pre-wet their emulsion with water for a minute before developing, which might help. Like Philip, though, I have no other ideas. But if it doesn't recur during your processing, as in your headlight example above, you are probably OK.

baisao · November 7, 2012

Philip, I also live in a hard water area. It is well water that is VERY high in boron. I rinse in tap water but my chemicals, including Photo-Flo, are mixed in distilled water.

Arthur, I always use inversion agitation (after getting mixed results with the swizzle stick). To my knowledge the film had never been X-rayed. If it had then it was before I bought it.

I've haven't finished my test roll-- same film lot, testing various speeds, going to use the same developer-- but that will tell me much. I am holding out hope that this was a fluke of development. Perhaps I didn't agitate enough during the fix.

I will post shots of the test roll when I get them. THANK YOU!!!

jonathan_reynolds · November 7, 2012

I don't know what has caused this, Jim, but poor agitation and hard water seem unlikely causes. The streaks seem very regularly spaced, and given that there are about 24 light/dark pairs across the negative, each pair can only be about 1 mm across.

Are the streaks visible on any blank (unexposed) sections of the same film?

baisao · November 8, 2012

Hi Jonathan, I did not see any streaking on the unexposed portions of the negatives, between frames. I don't think I will

presoak on my test roll but will make sure that my drum is scrupilously clean before I soup. I will also use fresh stock

developer this time around.

jonathan_reynolds · November 8, 2012

I just can't believe it is anything to do with the development process. I have used Paterson tanks since I was a school boy in the 1960s, and I have never seen anything like this.

baisao · November 10, 2012

I ran the second roll of FP4+ through the camera, developed with the exact same parameters (except for freshly opened stock developer this time)-- I got the same weird horizontal streaks.

I brought the negs and the camera to the pro lab and asked them their opinion. The tech that works in the back says that he has seen these kinds of regularly spaced hoizontal marks on film before. His hunch is that this happens because of rollers during the manufacturing process.

I also showed these to the friendly camera tech (works on Leicas) and he was a bit stumped as to what could be causing them and felt that a bad batch of film was as good an explanation as any but for me to keep an eye on the problem.

To rule out my developing process and the (bad batch of) FP4+, I have loaded on Kodak BW400CN.

I would rather have a bad batch of film than a shutter problem. Fingers crossed.

john_r._fulton_jr. · November 12, 2012

I'm late to the discussion. The color film indicates it's not a camera problem. It appears a problem with film and development. Film seems to be best possibility. Shoot another brand of black and white film and develop it same. The other black & white picture looks great. My suspicions are with the film and fixer. You sound meticulous in your handling of chemicals so I can only assume the fixer is fresh. Are you fixing it long enough? You said four minutes. How long is it taking to clear? It should take twice the clear time to fix. I'm guessing it clears in a minute or so, so the four minutes should be plenty. The hardner probably needs the full amount of time. Try fresh fix and see if that makes any difference. Again, it probably is the film. It may have been exposed to something (heat, x-rays) something post production that damaged it. Heat usually causes more of a fog or loss of contrast so it might be something floating around in the air (x-rays, gamma rays). It will be interesting to hear your final report. Good luck.

baisao · November 14, 2012

Ok, I tested the camera for shutter bounce, shutter capping, light leaks, and generally just about any other aberration associated with the camera. I used Kodak BW400CN C41 process film this time instead of FP4+, going on the suggestion that the batch of FP4+ may have been bad.

Result: no aberrations noted. This leaves my development routine (doubtful) or a bad batch of film. I'm settling on it being a bad batch of FP4+. Case closed!

...or is it? Or is it?

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