Venturing into Off Camera Flash...a bit lost about all the options

[jschmitzphotos]

<p>So I really want to step up my wedding photography and am researching off camera flash set ups. My mind is swimming at all the options and terminology! Here is what I'm thinking:<br>

1. Currently, I use a 5D3 with a 580EXII on camera. I would like to keep this setup for fill flash/bounce flash.<br>

2. For off camera flash, I will use 2 YN-560II's<br>

3. I want the flash triggers to be radio-based, and I would love to be able to control OCF output from my camera<br>

My specific questions:<br /><br />A) From what I've researched, it looks like PW FlexTT5 would be the best option, since I can still use my 580 on camera (#1). However, I read that you need the AC3 zone controller to work for item #3 in my list. Is that correct? If I get the AC3, does that mean #1 wont work?<br /><br />B) I know that the YN-560II's are manual, so I'm not concerned about not having TTL capabilities for my OCF. I would just like to control their flash output from my camera. I'm also looking at the Phottix Strato II, and I've done a bit of research on the Radio Popper Jrx and Cybersyncs. But is controlling flash output for OCF even necessary? Or do you usually just "set it and forget it" at the reception?<br>

C) Iis on camera flash necessary with OCF? I'm so used to bouncing my flash on camera that I cant imagine suddenly not using it anymore. I have zero OCF experience, but I would think that with 2 OCF's, I would need a 3rd to kind of "fill in" any gaps or areas that may not be covered by the OCF.<br>

<br />D) What would you recommend?</p>

[Spearhead]

<p>I wrote a review here on photo.net on the PW Flex setup. There's a few problems with what you've said.</p>

<p>A) The FlexTT5 does TTL remote control. You are paying a lot more for a feature you aren't using if you are using a full manual flash. The AC3 is part of the Flex system.<br>

B) You can't control the output of a manual flash remotely. Also, some of the ones you are talking about don't offer pass-through, which means you can't put the 580 on your camera. Regarding setting off-camera flash output, it depends on what you are doing. If you are shooting setups in a single location without a lot of changing ambient light, you can set the flashes up and leave them set. Otherwise, you will need to watch your settings.<br>

C) You don't need on-camera and off-camera. That doesn't mean it's good. I would start with two flash units rather than three. Each flash unit you add will result in more options but more complexity.<br>

D) I would recommend finding someone that can help you with this locally and can go through setups. My own preference would be for TTL remote flash units, not manual.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>A. I don't know about PW Flex system except they have problems with the 580EX II, so me--I'd stay away from them.</p>

<p>B. I use Cybersyncs, although I think the Phottix Strato II is a good way to go. Cybersyncs have been rock solid for me. Fires every time--if it doesn't it is user error, not the Cybersyncs, or they need fresh batteries.</p>

<p>The Strato's pass through TTL on the hotshoe is a great idea, as is being able to turn off individual off camera flashes at the transmitter. The only bad thing I've heard comes through hard use--the plastic part near the foot of the transmitter cracks over repeated use. It is because of the torque of having the weight of the flash on the transmitter--through all that swinging around of the camera (and flash), a toll is taken on the plastic parts.</p>

<p>I personally do not care about being able to change the power of OCFs at the camera. It would be a nice feature but I put that feature pretty low on my priority list--consistent firing being #1. At receptions, it isn't a matter of set and forget in the sense that you'd never change power at all, but a matter of figuring out at the beginning, how you are going to light the space, testing it and going with it. It is true that sometimes, I don't change the OCF settings once I've set them. Sometimes I do. It isn't more than maybe 2 times, though.</p>

<p>C. This is up to you. I know photographers that don't have an on camera flash when they use OCF. I personally use an on camera flash, if turned down, because the OCFs can't always provide enough frontal light, depending upon subject position. Some photographers fish for that frontal light in processing. I personally don't like to, due to noise, white balance and quality issues.</p>

<p>Sometimes, I have the on camera flash as providing a 3rd area of light, with 2 other OCFs providing just enough light in the backgrounds to 'fill in' and provide a little accent light.</p>

[john_deerfield]

<p>A) The Flex system is going to work with Canon flashes. The AC3 works with Canon, Elinchrom, & Buff strobes (Alien Bee, White Lightning, Einstein). However the AC3 goes in the camera hot shoe so if you want a flash near the lens axis, this means using a bracket and another Flex 5 transceiver. You could use a miniTT1 on camera, Canon flash mounted on top, and then put a simple PWIII on each remote flash. This won't give you control of you OCF from the camera position. It's essentially the same as using PWIII only, with one PWIII plugged into the PC terminal of your camera triggering the remote flashes. A bit cheaper then the Flex system, but if you ever upgrade your flashes, you may eventually want the Flex system.</p>

<p>B)Well, if you were using Canon flashes or Elincrhom's or Buff Strobes, you could control the power of the flash manually from the camera position with the Flex system. You could also do TTL with Canon flashes from the camera position with the Flex system. The Radio Poppers I believe only allow control of Canon flashes from the camera position. The Stratto II system is akin to using a PW miniTT1 with PWIII's on remote flashes. Only the Stratto is much cheaper. I don't use them so I can't speak to their reliability, but that has been the bedrock of using PW's. And, there really isn't any "upgrade" path to the Stratto. Meaning, eventually, if you stay with this long enough, shoe mount flashes aren't going to cut it anymore and you will want something else. With the Flex system, that something else could be an Einstein Strobe or an Elinchrom strobe and then, with the AC3 and proper receiver, you do get on camera control of the off camera strobe.</p>

<p>C)The only answer is that you should use what you want to get the look that you are after. Light is light. <em>Where</em> do you want light? What do you want to light. I usually like to keep a flash on-camera for any number of reasons. However, I also try not to use it whenever I can!</p>

<p>D)I agree 100% with Jeff, find a camera club, a local photographer, <em>somebody</em> that can walk you through this. This can potentially add up to a significant investment. Personally, I like the freedom the Flex system gives me. But I also use Einstein strobes (along with Nikon flashes). I love the ability to control the Einstein from the camera position depending on how I want to use the strobe. That said, for years all I used was a simple PW system that allowed no control over the remote strobe. For entry level, it looks like the Stratto would be tough to beat.</p>

[dave404]

<p>There are a lot of options it is true. In a fast paced environment having OCF can be a distraction unless you have a helper hold the off camera flash. Having a main light off camera with a on camera fill flash and act as a master unit is much quicker to work with. Using off camera on a light stand with only one person trying to work both ends can result in the flash falling and hitting someone. For the formal shots you can rely more on the OCF and have more time and less chance of disaster striking you (or one of the guests). <br /> There are many ways to skin a cat and there are great web resources to help you master them. From the OCF angle a good reference is the strobist on the web, his approach is setting up small strobes off camera in a shooting session typically for a magazine shoot. For weddings planet neil has a lot of good information on using on camera units and getting a natural light look by bouncing etc. Between those approaches you can adapt to many different shooting environments.</p>

[savagesax]

email me if you wish. having lights is the easy part. Where to set them up properly is another story. Umbrulla, reflectors, power ratio's, bouncing, aiming, light stands, how high or low to place them? Should you change the placements during the wedding and the receptions.

 

You got some great advice from the above posts.

[jschmitzphotos]

<p>After much research, I decided to go with the Phottix Stratto II's. For where I'm at right now, I think it will meet my needs best and eventually when I learn more about lighting, upgrade to more powerful lighting, and want to try controlling flash output from on camera, I wont feel too bad upgrading to a different system (like PW) since the Stratto II price is very reasonable.</p>

<p><br />I ordered some 10 ft light stands that come with sandbags, and hopefully I ordered the correct flash bracket to attach my flashes! Still looking into external battery options for my off camera flashes.</p>

<p>Thanks for everyone's help!</p>

[ejder]

Strato II is basically 100% reliable but all my triggers have broken from extended use with the ettl oncamera flashes mounted on top

as pass thru just like Nadine warned. (Maybe she found my lost with sample photos in another forum.). However, they come with a

screwlock pc sync plug that also works great and they can be bel tied on something, maybe the flash body. <br><br>

 

Until someone brought it up to me, I never realized that ettl plus manual flash could be a bad thing giving inconsistent results.

Because the offcamera manual flashes aren't fired yet when ettl is calculating exposure, the ettl can often overexposed thinking the

scene is going to be darker than it is with the addition if offcamera flash. I have gotten more consistent results by setting my

oncamera flash to manual exposure, but this is impractical when subjects are coming towards you and exposing brighter as they get

closer. The only quick reduction (one click in a wheel) of oncamera manual flash exposure is aperture, which darkens your offcamera

and ambient light. In those situations, setting oncamera to ettl with -1 to -2 exposure reduction is probably safer.

[ejder]

On a side note, I hate apple's iPod predictive text error correction.

[frolickingbits]

<p>I see you bought the Stratos, but I have 4 of the Youngnuo YN-622, and I love them. Fully compatible with my 5D3, TTL passthrough for the on camera flash, wireless TTL or manual flash power control through the in camera flash menu. And they're cheap-$100 for a pair of them.<br>

I have also used the PW Flex system, and loved it with the 5D MarkII, but even with the firmware upgrade, it never worked right with my 5D3. They are also a pain to troubleshoot in the field, since you can't change many settings without connecting them to a computer.</p>