Rolleiflex TLR prism finders: Optical differences between newer 45 and 90 degree models?

[arne_norris3]

<p>I know that 3 versions of prism viewfinders were made for Rolleiflex TLRs: The older 90 degree with the rounded shape, and two newer versions – a new style 90 degree and a 45 degree.<br>

My question is for any users of the newer models. I'm wondering if the optical quality is the same for the 45 and 90 degree prisms. ( I know people have preference for 45 or 90 degree prisms as far as handling goes.)<br>

I've seen a reference online that the newer 90 degree prism uses a mirror and different optics, whereas the 45 degree is a true glass prism finder. This same reference stated that the newer 90 degree prism had a problem with distortion. All of the references for the 45 degree finder say the optics are great with minimal distortion.<br>

Anyone with experience using the newer 90 degree prism or comparing the newer 45 and 90 degree finders for optical quality?</p>

[dhbebb]

<p>As far as I know (as a longtime Rollei TLR user), there was only one type of prism finder issued contemporarily to the cameras. This was the one with the rounded shape (a very clever design that gives good even brightness with minimum weight). A 45 degree prism was made for the Rollei SL66, 6000 etc. - I cannot comment on whether this fits TLRs.<br /> It also appears that users have succeeded in fitting a Kiev prism:<br /> /> and that there was a third-party Porroflex available:<br /> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rolleiflex-Porroflex-prism-finder-for-F2-8-F3-5-Rollei-TLR-hard-to-find-Ex-/281046748787?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item416fb10e73&_uhb=1<br /> This Porroflex works with mirrors and is known for giving a less bright image than a glass prism.</p>

[arne_norris3]

<p>Thank you very much for the detailed response, David. Here's what I've found out so far:<br>

B&H Photo has new contemporary 45 degree prism finders listed listed for TLR Rolleiflex cameras. I also have a GX brochure that shows both 45 and 90 degree modern prisms. And I currently have the option to buy a modern 90 degree finder, but not sure if I want to order it. It's true though that these newer style finders weren't sold very much as they were very expensive, and are difficult to find used.<br>

My question is just how good this modern 90 degree finder is optically. I think it is essentially the same finder as the one Rollei made for the 6000 series SLRs, with a different mount.</p>

 

[dhbebb]

<p>I haven't tried a Russian prism on my Rollei but have heard good reports - costwise they seem to be a bargain:<br>

http://www.baierfoto.de/tlr_engl.html</p>

[fwstutterheim]

<blockquote>

<p>I think it is essentially the same finder as the one Rollei made for the 6000 series SLRs, with a different mount.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>As far as I know this is true. It would not have made sense to do otherwise. <br>

A difference between the old style ones and the "new" GX style ones is the cut-out for the exposure meter LEDs in the new ones. I own the "new" 45 degrees finder for my GX. The lump of glass makes the camera a bit top heavy but it is a joy to use when bright sunlight would have fallen onto the WLF. <br>

<br>

This reference to mirrors in the new 90 degrees finder, is it in any way substantiated? </p>

[d_purdy]

<p>I can tell you that the diopter or the lens you view through in the 90 degree prism is the same for both old and new. I have 3 old style 90 degree prisms with a new eye piece in one and it is identical in optical quality though a bit different in design to the older ones. The older diopter is one piece and the newer one is two but they are interchangeable. I have the Maxwell screen in my 2.8F and 2.8FX and I can say that the view in the newer vs the older camera is the same and it is very bright. I can't see how one would have a complaint about the brightness or sharpness of the 90 degree prism. </p>

[arne_norris3]

<p>Ferdi: Here's a link to an earlier forum page, which has the reference to the newer 90 degree prism (for the 6000 series I believe) having a the distortion problem.<br>

http://www.photo.net/medium-format-photography-forum/00I7Vm<br>

The page is from 2006.</p>

<p>The newer design 90 degree prism I'm considering—it doesn't have the big piece of glass on the lower part of the finder nearest the ground glass screen like the old style 90 did. It's also supposed to be much lighter weight, which leads me to believe it might have the distortion problems mentioned in this forum page from 2006.</p>

<p>I sold my 2.8F and 3.5F (and am looking for a Rolleiwide currently) so have no way to try the newer 90 prism out on a camera.</p>

<p> </p>

[fwstutterheim]

<p>Thanks Arne. I had forgotten all about that thread. I even contributed to it. Getting old I guess.</p>

[d_purdy]

<p>Reading through that thread it seems the 90 degree prism for 6000 cameras is different and has a distortion problem. If that is the case I would certainly get the older type round top 90 degree prism. It doesn't have any distortion and is a heck of a lot cheaper than the new one.</p>

[arne_norris3]

<p>Ferdi and Dennis: Thanks for your help. I think I'll look for the 45 degree prism!</p>

[arne_norris3]

<p>Well, I now have a 90 degree finder in front of me, the model that seems to have been made when the GX was in production. I'm not sure about the 45 degree version yet as I don't have one to compare.<br /> <br /> I don't have a camera, but using the finder much like a loop in a variety of ways, the 90 is very clear, bright and I don't notice any distortion. Much better than the older, early 90 degree finder I used in the past on my 2.8F. So for now not sure which to go with.<br /> I guess just try both the 45 and 90 and see what works best if I ever find a Rolleiwide. (I need to sell my Mamiya 6 outfit first.)<br /> The finder is much lighter weight than the older 90 degree. Not sure how it compares to the similar GX vintage 45 degree finder.<br /> <br /> I'm thinking that the thread I found with the comment about the newer 90 degree finder having a different construction must have been referring to another model used in a non-TLR Rollei. This 90 degree seems to have a prism system, but with much less glass then the older model, and a different looking and size of glass prism in it than the 45 degree finder.<br /> <br /> Thanks for all of the advice and comments! If anyone sees this thread who has used both the 90 and 45 GX vintage prism finder and can comment on their experience, that would be great.</p>

[arne_norris3]

<p>One last thing of note, which I wasn't expecting:</p>

<p>The GX era 90 degree finder I have in front of me seems to have a base and cover plates made out of high quality plastic rather than metal. Not unusual for this ea of finders (thinking of the plastic Leica M viewfinders from the same era) but still unexpected. It does make for a much lighter weight, and probably will be much less top heavy.</p>

<p>Anyone with a 45 degree prism finder made during the GX era able to comment on the construction?</p>

[mark_l6]

<p>I believe the 90 degree finder with mirrors rather than prism was for the 6000 series. I bought one in a first flush of enthusiasm for my 6006 and although it was light, that was the only good thing about it. It had a very low magnification was very dull and turned a good handling camera into a dreadful one. I sold it within a week of getting it.<br>

I have a problem with my 3.5E3 in that in bright light I can hardly see the screen for all the light reflecting off the screen so I too decided to get a finder, but all the 90 degree old style finders I have found have bad balsam seperation and I still don't think the handling will work well for me, so I've decided to get a hasselblad 45 degree finder and the adapter from www.<strong id="yui_3_3_0_1_1359428249521301">baierfoto.de</strong>/tlr_engl. <br>

I really think you'll be more comfortable with a 45 degree finder, whether the correct Rollei one or a conversion.<br /></p>

[arne_norris3]

<p>Mark, Thanks for the input. I guess the 45 and 90 degree finder both have uses. I've used on of the older Rollei 90 finders and found it OK to use.</p>

<p>But The newer style 90 finder I'm considering buying seems like it has great optics: bright, very even and clear. I assume the newer 45 would be similar in quality. I'm thinking you may be right about the 45 being more comfortable, although I see uses for a 90 degree as well.</p>

<p>My primary way to use a Rollei TLR is with the waist level finder anyway. A prism is just for when I need to react faster or follow a moving scene.</p>

[fwstutterheim]

<blockquote>

<p>Anyone with a 45 degree prism finder made during the GX era able to comment on the construction? </p>

</blockquote>

<p>Arne,<br>

<br>

Yes, both my 45 degrees prisms (GX and 6000) have a shell made of some sort of quality plastic. They do not look cheap though.<br>

<br>

Ferdi.</p>

[arne_norris3]

<p>Thanks for the response, Ferdi. Yes, my 90 version does look very well made.</p>

<p>So for now I have a GX era 90 degree finder that is like new and seems very nice quality. There seems to be no distortion. And it's much lighter weight than the old-round style 90 degree. As these newer style finders are difficult to find I guess I'll keep this for now until a 45 degree comes along, then compare to see which fits my needs better.</p>

<p>Thanks for everyone's feedback and advice.</p>