100-400L Problems

fmueller · August 23, 2012

I have a 100-400L that I bought used some years back. Although I got a good deal on it, it is by far my most expensive lens, and ironically also my least used one - I simply don't need a long tele lens all that often. Results are generally good to outstanding. Every once in a while I get an image that is so sharp I wish I had some more L lenses in my bag. However, occasionally images from this lens are amazingly blurry. I think have enough experience using long lenses to know that camera shake can not be the culprit alone, and I am getting the feeling there is something very wrong with the lens. It almost feels like it's only sharp at the long end, but blurry when used below 400mm. I should probably shoot some test series on a tripod, but I am not much feeling like doing that. I am not much of a pixel peeper, and I hate shooting test series. I also don't know how to best go about doing that. Can I just get somebody to calibrate that lens - Canon? An independent workshop? Do I need to send in the camera with the lens - I have two, T1i and 20D. What should I expect to pay for a service?

Two images from this morning:

f16, 1/800s, 350mm

f5, 1/200s, 160mm

OK, the latter image has a shallow DOF, but there seems absolutely nothing in focus in that image, and the whole series is like that!

I shoot JPEG in camera with sharpening and such gizmos disabled. Usually I would do appropriate post processing in GIMP - curves, USM, etc. - but these test shots were only resized.

esfishdoc · August 23, 2012

Bluntly and quickly....

You might be wasting your money as there might not be anything wrong with your lens.

I'd suggest finding a friend or fellow photographer to "borrow" your lens and check it out.

That.. or go through the process and evaluate the lens to properly identify if it really has a problem.

Regards...

Richard

David_Cavan · August 23, 2012

That last shot does appear to be OOF everywhere, Frank. The first one looks OK, not tack-sharp but pretty good regardless. I've just acquired one of these lenses second-hand, and been using it for about a month. I'd say there's something amiss with your version based on these two shots.

alan_bessler · August 23, 2012

User error I would say,use a tripod and see what happens.

jim_j2 · August 23, 2012

The bottom image looks to be a result of both camera shake and out of focus in my opinion. I would agree that some testing may be in order.

If it were mine, I'd do that with a tripod and a remote shutter release of some sort or, at least use the shutter delay. And, not use the IS.

Then I'd do some hand held testing using the IS to eliminate it as the possible problem.

Sorry I can't help with the cost to send it in to Canon for service.

Lucky I guess, . . . but in 40 years of using Canon equipment, I've never had any failures!

Best wishes.

www.philwinterphotography. · August 23, 2012

Are you using any kind of filter on the lens? I cannot use a polarizing filter on my 100-400, because for whatever reason, the polarizer renders the image soft, like yours above. I use the same filter on a 17-40L and it works fine. My 100-400 has another quirk yours might have as well. When shooting into strong back light, such as sunsets with the sun above the horizon, my IS sometimes goes nuts, and the image shifts all over the place. It's not enough of a bother to send it for repairs, however.

In the image you shot at 160mm, keep in mind that with a 1.6 crop factor, you're at 256mm equivalent, and your shutter speed was 1/200, which is below the "classic rule of thumb hand holding limit" of 1/focal length.

Even with IS, the 100-400 is not forgiving of camera shake - er, lens shake. Set it up on a tripod, remote release or use the timer, no filter, IS off. Shoot at different focal lengths and varying aperture. If you still get fuzzy photos, send it off.

fmueller · August 23, 2012

That last shot does appear to be OOF everywhere.

</blockquote>

Precisely. The lens had locked focus onto the red bush on the right when I took the shot. I was hand holding but with IS and arms supported on a table. Besides, I can usually hand hold a shot at 160mm and 1/200s even after half a bottle of Scotch, and this was early in the morning!

The other shot was taken just a few minutes later. That one is plenty sharp for me, especially seeing that no USM was applied before saving the JPEG. What I'd like to know is how a lens can change behavior so rapidly between two shots - maybe something loose inside it?

I wish there was a Canon service center in convenient driving distance from me, but I think the closest one is NYC. I guess it'll have to be mail. Like James, I have never required a repair so far despite most of my gear being second hand.

fmueller · August 23, 2012

Phil - no filter. I guess putting it on a tripod tomorrow can't do any harm.

Marcus Ian · August 23, 2012

If that kind of results are consistent, then you most likely do have a problem. I think I would (as the others have suggested) setup a tripod, and do a proper test sequence.

I couldn't tell you what, specifically, is wrong, but to my eye it looks like the IS system may be the source of your problem (in picture 2)... since in the second picture, the IQ, and focus is very dependent on the IS (since you are beyond 1/shutter speed - think of it as having more time to screw up your image), whereas, in the first image, at 1/800, you are much less dependent upon the IS to obtain a sharp image (and so perhaps the IS has screwed up your image to a lesser degree).

I guess, even before setting up the tripod, I'd do a test sequence with the IS turned OFF. If you can get consistent imagery handheld (to the limit of your handholding skill), but don't when the IS is on, you have your problem.

geoffs1 · August 23, 2012

Motion would seem the most likely culprit in the second shot. Even at the relatively short 160mm a 1/200s shutter speed is not going to guarantee perfect shots every time. The first shot is at 1/800 at 400mm, so in my experience that's a much more likely combination to reduce motion.

Definitely tripod time.

fmueller · August 23, 2012

That's a good idea to check the IS system. I have it on by default. The 100-400 also has two IS modes. When I first got the lens I worked out what they are for and put it on the appropriate mode for me. I think the other one is for panning, but I forgot. Probably worth checking that out again.

I took a sequence of about 10 shots of those bushes. Might be that my hands were shaky and messed up a few, but not all of them.

JohnMWright · August 23, 2012

When I bought my 100-400, I found a couple of problems. First, I failed to check focusing accuracy before I took it out in the field, and found it backfocused on my 50D. After fixing that, I had to get used to using the IS, and I give it a second to settle down before I shoot (I have to anticipate action a little better). And finally, since I was forced to go hand-held due to having impatient people with me (no time for a tripod), I started using shutter priority. I try not to let it go below 1/1000, and prefer 1/2000. My keeper rate increased dramatically.

Interestingly, I barely needed MFA with my 5D3.

g dan mitchell · August 23, 2012

"I should probably shoot some test series on a tripod... I also don't know how to best go about doing that."

</blockquote>

Yes, you should. Unless you try that in order of quantify the nature of the problem, anything else you or we do is simply guess work. It isn't that hard. Put the camera on the tripod. First use AF. Shoot some easy-to-focus target. Make a shot at 400mm and then one at a shorter focal length, and continue until you get to 100mm. Use a remote release for each exposure and be sure that image stabilization is turned off.

If you have sharp images from this text, the problem is unlikely to be hardware-related. If you don't have sharp images, there are more things to do to narrow down the possibilities.

Dan

matthijs · August 24, 2012

Uhm... Not to disparage thorough testing...

But if sharpness at 400mm is consistantly better than at 160mm something's wrong.

Coincidence only stretches so far.

How often has this occured?

Was it just this once or twice or is it a pattern in your last 20 (or more) pictures at different focal lengths.

Did you check the IS settings?

Have you shot at different zoom levels otherwise identical images? (not moving, not changing aim)

Etc etc etc.

Good luck, Matthijs.

pjmeade · August 24, 2012

Hello,

I've noticed the kind of results you report too and for me, the 100-400 is the lens I use most often and earn most from. The odd results are not camera shake, because I'll have shutter speeds over 1/1000, sometimes over 1/3000. I suspect that in my case, they may be due to leaving the camera in single shot when I should be using AI servo, I noticed I'd done that once on Sunday. It may be due to having IS on mode 1 when it should be on 2, but with shutter speeds like I use, I find that hard to believe.

It's an annoyance, but the poor shots are sufficiently few compared with the good ones, that I'm not too worried.

So I don't have a solution, but you're not alone in the problem.

tom_harvey3 · August 24, 2012

Frank, at least make sure it's good Scotch!

fmueller · August 24, 2012

Following Tom's advice, I used Highland Park, my all time favorite - if there can be such a thing with Scotch!

Other parameters are: tripod, T1i, f16, 1/15s, no filters, IS off. I used AF, and in each shot it locked on to the Highland Park label on the bottle. I have no remote release, but I triggered the shutter via the self timer. Here is what I got with the 100-400L:

at 400mm

at 300mm

at 200mm

at 135mm

at 100mm

And for comparison, here are two shots with an old EF 70-210 USM. It has a badly scratched front glass element, but it's the only other tele lens I have for the EOS system.

at 210mm

at 100mm

IMHO the results with the old beater are noticeably better than with the 100-400L, and I reckon that means there is wrong something wrong with the L lens. But what could it be? I guess the IS system is out of the race, since it was off for the test.

jim_j2 · August 24, 2012

Some suggestions you may find helpful in obtaining a bit better sharpness with the 100-400 that I've learned over the years.

#1 - It has a reputation of being a bit soft at 400mm. So, I find mine sharpest about anywhere below 385mm or just back from the 400mm stop on the zoom.

#2 - Always "lock" the zoom with the "Smooth-Tightening" ring at the desired focal length. But be extremely careful not to over tighten. There is a lot of big glass moving around in there, and it is anticipated that by locking the zoom at the desired focal length can assist in a more positive auto focus.

#3 - In your 400mm shot, I noticed you shot @ f/16. In most situations you will find that just a stop or two above the widest aperture provides the sharpest images. Try some shots at the long end of the zoom range at f/5.6 or f/6.3.

As you get down toward the 100mm end start looking at shots with an aperture of f/4.5 to f/5.6.

And of course continue to use the tripod and self timer (10sec.) with the IS off. As you don't have a remote shutter release, I suggest the 10sec. to allow the vibrations to totally settle. And this is assuming that you are using a sturdy tripod and only light wind conditions.

If you are still getting any out of focus appearing images, then I would suggest doing some shots using manual focusing. And if the T1i has Live View, then do a series of focusing test using the advantage of the 10X zoom on the Live View.

I assume that you are using "center point" focusing. If not, that may help some also.

Make certain the IS is off.

Make certain you are in "One Shot" mode, and not in the "AI Focus" or "AI Servo" modes on the camera body.

Check and make certain the Lens distance switch is set at the appropriate distance. I think either 1.6 meters or beyond 6 meters. (I can't remember the specific distances shown and I don't have my lens with me at the present time.)

This may or may not make a difference when doing any manual focusing.

It's your call and your money! But these are some of the things I'd be doing before I decided there was something wrong with the lens and sending it in for "repair."

The 100-400 does come supplied with a "Users Manual" and, although it may sound silly to most, . . . it's worth the short read!

This lens will have a slight learning curve compared to most.

Best wishes,

Jim j.

keith reeder · August 24, 2012

f/16 and 1/15 is no way to test a lens for sharpness issues, Frank - even using a tripod and self-timer. This is especially true at 400mm.

Being outside is likely to be an issue too - the very slightest breath of wind at that shutter speed will kill sharpness.

I'm not saying there's not a problem here, but really you need to test the lens wide(ish) open with a high shutter speed, even on a tripod.

keith reeder · August 24, 2012

#1 - It has a reputation of being a bit soft at 400mm

</blockquote>

<a href="http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/tfu29/upload/starling_st_marys_1200.jpg">Completely undeserved</a>, in my experience.

(Handheld, too).

jim_j2 · August 24, 2012

"<a href="http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/tfu29/upload/starling_st_marys_1200.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Completely undeserved</a>, in my experience."

</blockquote>

I wish I could totally agree Keith! But, mine seems to be so! I keep trying @ 400mm but I don't have as much success as I do just below 400mm. Although I study your images and others that are getting sharp stuff @ 400mm, I'm not!

I think it differs from individual sample of the 100-400! I seem to have one of the bad ones!

Cheers Keith,

Jim j.

JohnMWright · August 24, 2012

I agree that the reputation of being soft is undeserved. But it did require rethinking how I use the camera (learning curve).

At 1/15s you will see vibration from the mirror, along with any other slight disturbance. I noticed mirror vibration up to and including 1/250s with my lens, on a tripod, which is why I went for at least 1/1000s. With calibrated AF and fast shutter speeds, my lens is quite sharp.

To test the optics, try this:

Use a solid tripod,

lock the mirror,

focus manually ( do you have liveview with the T1i? If so, use it, if not, I suggest you vary the focus slightly in several images because it is very hard to see precise focus with current AF screens),

use a remote release.

You can use a flash to eliminate any vibration. Pick the sharpest image.

And, if you shoot indoors, don't put the tripod on carpet, it isn't steady enough.

bobatkins · August 24, 2012

I should probably shoot some test series on a tripod, but I am not much feeling like doing that. I am not much of a pixel peeper, and I hate shooting test series.

</blockquote>

Then it's not likely you will find out what your problem is. You need to use a methodology that will give you good data. For example take a look at <a href="http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/technical/lens_sharpness.html">http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/technical/lens_sharpness.html</a>

You need a tripod, a target, and a good test method. Don't shoot at f16 for a start. It will mask the effects of any AF problems and you'll get some blurring to to increased diffraction. Shoot wide open and 1 and 2 stops closed down. Check focus using Live View if you have it. If not shoot multiple images and/or focus bracket using manual focus. Use a remote release or a delay and/or mirror lock up if you have them available. Turn off the IS.

When I tested the 100-400 after it just came out I found it slightly soft at 400mm. When I tested a second sample much more recently, it was very good at 400mm. I don't know if there were any changes made (Canon don't document any) or if the 1st sample was below average and the 2nd sample above average.

If the lens checks out sharp in such a test and you still aren't getting good results in the field, it's probably your technique that's at fault, or the IS isn't as good as you think it is. Basically IS helps but it will not always give you results as sharp as a tripod would and at slower shutter speeds it is much worse. When you see claims like "4 stops of stabilization" they really mean "up to 4 stops, occasionally and if you're very lucky"

ljwest · August 24, 2012

I'm certainly not getting good focus all the time with my 100-400. Largely, however, I find the focus issues come not so much from any particular focal length, but more from the distance to the subject. I seem to shoot 75% or more at 400mm. Focusing in close, 20-30 feet, say (I shoot small birds & animals, mostly, so...), will bring my keeper rate up much, much higher than shooting things 100 feet or more away.

I think that some of that may be me, but I'm also thinking that the lens and my 7D need to spend a week at Canon's spa in NJ!

I can't also ignore the fact that the lens's autofocus system design is ten or more years older than my 7D's design. While Canon should have accounted for its foibles with the 7D firmware, maybe that's more than I should reasonably expect, given the number of lenses out there...

fmueller · August 24, 2012

Many thanks for all your input. I guess there is only so much an Internet forum can help with, and some things have to be seen first hand. I have had extensive experience using manual focus lenses in the 400-600mm range, and I have had a Sigma 135-400 as well as a Sigma 170-500 for the EOS system before I got the 100-400L. While on a good day the 100-400L leaves those other lenses for dead - with the possible exception of a wonderful Tokina 400/5.6 for manual focus Minolta I once had - at other times I can clearly see that I don't get from this lens what it should give me. For example when pointing at those bushes yesterday, the camera beeped and the focus confirmation light in the viewfinder lit up, but I could already see in the viewfinder that while the focusing mechanism of the lens had been active, it hadn't snapped the lens into focus but to some other random off focus point. The resulting image looked exactly like the blurry mess I could see in the viewfinder right then. Manually focusing the T1i with this lens is no small job, even with the live view, and has given me hit and miss results. I also feel it shouldn't be necessary to take a photo of some bushes! At any rate, I'll give Canon a call and see if I can get my problem more eloquently across the phone lines as I have evidently managed to explain it here. Even if that fails, hopefully the problem is not so intermittent that the Canon techs can see it when they hold the lens in hand. Before I forget, I reckon I'll pass on Bob's $599 lens test set ;-)

Sign In

100-400L Problems

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in