A Fantastic Link on EXPOSURE

[scott_fleming1]

I'm sure all you steady denizens of this forum already have this one

but I've been ferreting around here for a couple months and I just

found it. Thought I'd drag it up front for some who may not have

found it yet.

 

This is exactly the sort of chart I have been looking for for some

time and could not find. If you print it out don't wast your paper

trying to print in portrait format. For me at least it would only

print properly in landscape. He's got fifteen pages here but you

really only need pages 10 - 12.

 

Fred says it's ok to copy it but he would appreciate an e-mail.

 

http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm

 

Regards,

Scott Fleming, River Run Ranch, Texas

[dan_smith]

Portrait format? Print properly in landscape... what, like the Grand Canyon or maybe the Black Hills?

And what ever happened to horizontal, vertical and square formats?

[george_jiri_loun]

Scott, I follow your frontal attack on the LF photography defensive positions with a lot of friendly smiles! By the way, what's so fantastic on the link?? My spot meter seems to me be even more fantastic with all it can do... George, friendly.

[light-zone]

Oh Dan, don't be Sooooo American...it's a big woderful world out there, and in some places, vertical is still referred to as "portrait" and horizontal as "landscape". But I suppose it's still the general opinion in the USA that the WHOLE world speaks English too.

 

Oh how I can't wait to get back home to the USA and re-establish my "superior" way of thinking ;-)

[michael_fox]

Scott was referring to the printer driver settings which allow you to choose between portrait or landscape orientation. This is what they are called on every printer I've seen.

[www.graemehird.com]

Lighten up.... Dan's having a silly season joke

[scott_fleming1]

It's a fantastic chart because some of us have never used a light meter that was not inside a camera. We have never seen a chart of the 23 EV values related to real world lighting. We have never seen a chart of most possible exposures for all ASAs. I was impressed. You are not. To each his own.

[light-zone]

Hey Graeme,

 

see my "winking eye"???? Although I've been living in Germany for 15 years, I've still haven't lost my sense of humor...;-)

[pete_andrews]

Talking of being Americocentric: That chart misses out one or two vital factors. Namely Latitude, and time of year, because it may work within the bounds of the tropics, but not in northern Europe and the UK.<p>To some of us, the 'sunny 16 rule' is a joke, and deserves no mention in our part of the world.<br>For instance, I can stand in the full midday midwinter sunshine on a crisp, clear day like today, and measure no more than EV13 @ 100ISO on any incident meter.

[george_jiri_loun]

Speaking about the missed points of the mentioned chart -the whole purpose of an exposure meter is to eliminate the guesswork to a minimum. While it is true that an educated guess can work better than a badly understood exposure meter work it is also true that correct exposure meter handling eliminates the guess to a minimum. For "special" lighting situations the chart advises to bracket even for 4 stops... With an exposure meter I dare to say you could cut that bracketing by a half if not more.

[scott_fleming1]

I wouldn't toss your lightmeter and Fred is only kidding about it.

 

I found it very helpful to see all the f/stops and exp times laid out in a grid however. I had just never fully realized how perfect a progression was there. Really helped me grasp a little more of exposure. I may stick a small portion of the chart for high stops and soft light to check my land scape exposures however.

 

EV (ISO50)LIGHT LEVELS DESCRIBEDf/11 f/16 f/22 f/32 f/45

(EV7) Brightly lit nighttime streets, indoor sports, stage show

2 4 8 15 30

(EV8) Extreme bright nighttime streets, interiors bright florescents 1 2 4 8 15

(EV9) Landscapes 10 minutes after sunset, neon lights, spotlights 1/2 1 2 4 8

(EV10) Lndscapes immediately after sunset, crescent moon long lens 1/4 1/2 1 2 4

(EV11) Sunsets, and subjects in open shade 1/8 1/4 1/2 1 2

(EV12) Subject in heavy overcast, or half moon long lens 1/15 1/8 1/4 1/2 1

(EV13) Subjects in cloudy bright light no shadows, gibous moon 1/30 1/15 1/8 1/4 1/2

(EV14) Subjects in weak hazy sun, or full moon long lens 1/60 1/30 1/15 1/8 1/4

(EV15) Subjects in bright or hazy sun (Sunny 16 rule) 1/125 1/60 1/30 1/15 1/8

 

Of course my table is al screwed up here but this is just about all the chart you'd need.

[scott_fleming1]

Perhaps a sliver of Cheddar with your chart?

 

It seems simple enough to me to move the EV scale two stops. We are sorry for you poor light deprived N. Europeans. It must be hard.

[aaron l]

Wow, this web page makes things even more complicated. I love it! Since your light meter looks at reflected (in this mode!) light, it doesn't know if something is white or black. Thus, what safer way to go with than the geometric middle gray.

To be a snot, one would say reading St. Adam's 1st & 2nd books to muddy the water even more. Nothing seems to create more clueless looks than talking about EV. :)

<smiling the whole time>

[scott_fleming1]

Yeah, I had no idea what EV was and still have only a tots grasp, so to speak. But seeing this chart and actually LOOKING at it certainly made me believe it was at least a real concept instead of just some arcane arbitrary scale that only zoners used.

 

If the Sunny 16 rule is real (outside the Misty Isles, The Arctic and Antarctica anyway) then why not keep in your head the 'not so sunny 16' rule and the 'cloudy 16' rule etc?

 

I'm funny that way. I like to actually understand a bit of what I'm doing. I actually have a little chart of focus spreads and f/stops optimized to avoid defratction as well. Maybe someday I can get the numbers worked into my head and take the chart down. Probably not though as I have advanced CRS.

[george_jiri_loun]

<smiling the whole time>... Aaron, did you want to say you don't take this all seriously? To get rid of your exposure meter and to have just an eagle eye which can say what is the EV of a scene (or, even better, of a part of it!) and a chart - and you are smiling? Don't you think you live dangerously??

[scott_fleming1]

Neither the author of this chart or anybody else actually thinks anyone is going to throw away their meter. But the chart, to me at least, certainly explained exposure in a comprehensive manner. Granted I could have started with the Sunny 16 rule and extrapolated the entire chart myself but I did not realize this. To my mind, any newbee (like me) would benefit from studying this chart and the accompanying EV scale and description. The ASA/ISO adjustment function was eye opening as well.

[george_jiri_loun]

"Neither the author of this chart or anybody else actually think anyone is going to throw away their meter." (Scott).

Scott, you must read your teacher better - actually, he even wrote this as a title of his exposé: "How to use the ultimate exposure computer. Throw away your light meter!" Only so can YOU become the true ultimate exposure meter - he says at the end. You don't want to cheat your Master right at the beginnig, do you? Still smiling...

[scott_fleming1]

Do you know what a 'red herring' is George?

 

Fred makes it pretty clear he's only kidding about not using a light meter. The whole point of his chart is to help people who were not born with a camera up their a$$ like you .... grasp the relationship between light levels, f/stops and exposure times.

 

Are you always a trite jerk George or are you just not getting enough attention these days?

[tim_atherton2]

"To some of us, the 'sunny 16 rule' is a joke, and deserves no mention in our part of the world.

For instance, I can stand in the full midday midwinter sunshine on a crisp, clear day like today, and measure no more than EV13 @ 100ISO on any incident meter."

 

Ha ha - it was sunny today at lunchtime when I was taking some pix ISO100@ f16 was 1 second.... mind you, sunrise was 10.01, sunset was 15.05

[george_jiri_loun]

"...he's only kidding about not using a light meter" (Scott). Sure? What a relief for the rest of us! I was affraid Master Fred was born with an exposure meter in his eye - maybe me too I could grasp the relationship between light levels, f/stops and exposure times?? Recently I saw some tables on my exposure meter's wheel... don't know if that is the right chart thought...

[george_jiri_loun]

read: ...though

[jorge_gasteazoro4]

Ah Scott, for someone who self admitedly is a beguinner you are very opinionated and keep steping on it. First we had your Schnieder thread, now this. <p>

Ok lets examine your guru's opening statement.<p>

<b>that all reflected light meters make one basic (erroneous) assumption. They are calibrated to render an exposure that will make the subject look like a middle tone in the resulting photograph. </b><p>

Bold his, not mine. Ok right off the bat this guy is wrong. The meter is not giving an "erroneous" reading it is giving a "standarized" reading. You see, in order for all of us to talk about the same thing we have to beguin from a starting point. For example in science we decided to use the metric system, just so all the measurements taken are in the same scale, no matter if they are taken in Russia or Patagonia. The same applies for measurements of reflected light. It was agreed that a meter will give readings comparable to an 18% value on a reflection chart. Of course you can deviate from this agreement and do your own, a good example is Sekonic who for some moronic reason decided to use a 12% value in their L508 meter and have been getting no end of grief for this.<p>

 

The funny thing is that EV values are based on a combination of ASA, aperture and shutter speed that will give an 18% value. EV values are merely another way of trying to make things "easier" to read since their progression appears to be linear. <p>

 

Instead of carrying this overly complicated chart, buy yourself one of them Kodak professional guides, it has the exact same thing in a dial form, much more easier to understand and use. <p>

 

Now if you really want to make things difficult for yourself why dont you make a chart converting ft/candles to EV to exposure settings. Then you would really understand exposure, as you seem to think it is necessary to do. Me, I really dont need to know how the combustion engine works, just tell me where to put gas, oil and water and I am happy. But what do I know, I have been only doing this for 20 years, so I am sure you are correct and EV values are the way to go.

[george_jiri_loun]

Jorge, you just make it too complicated for me. Russia, Patagonia, Sekonic 508, 18% and a gray cart, then some 12%... A moment ago I started to get it - you just looked at a scene and SAW the EV of it (and if you didn't, you just read it on a chart, you dude - like: full moon, -10°F, calm night - EV 9). The rest was a piece of cake. Now you come and make it even more complicated! When I go to this thread, I tremble...

[jorge_gasteazoro4]

I get you George, life is hell!!

[aaron l]

Jorge,

 

Great post....the whole idea is to have some sort of known starting place and then go from there. You as the photographer must decide if you really want your black horse gray or, with an L-508, darker gray. Hopefully my L-608 isn't doing that to me!

 

Yes, I was/am smiling all the time because there have been tons of posts on this subject everywhere with the same confusion. I've blown enough exposures to enjoy reading someone going through the learning process as we all have.