j_l32 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 <p>Hi all, noob here and excited to have found a nice place!<br /><br />Anyways, I have a good eye for photo taking, but I just dont have great equipment. I am about to get in the business of needing to photo some model for a web portfolio, some model shots, some product shots while they are wearing something, for intimate wear, so the setting will usually be like on a bed in a small room with little or no daylight. I am thinking of using some satin/nylon sheets/drapes as the bed cover and backdrop, and colors are still up for grabs.<br /><br />I can invest in any real camera right now... just have a compact (I know please dont kill me, but this is just for the web for now!!! no print or hi-res!) Lumix 10mp (is there a section here where I can learn more about this camera to maximize my results?). I of course have a tripod, I will get a better camera as soon as I can afford it, but for my purpose right now, I think lighting is much more important, am I wrong?<br /><br />Anyways, my questions are:<br /><br />1) How much difference will the backdrops and bed sheet colors/material (shiny satin vs like cotton, but satin looks so sexy) make in the overall lighting of the subject and complexity for good results?<br /><br />2) How much should I realistically spend on lighting, that can maybe be upgradeable later? I am assuming I wont need to buy a different tripod once I get a couple, just better bulbs maybe? Or reflectors/umbrellas? I was thinking this is a great deal for me right now on eBay for $50 shipped:<br /><br />3x 45w Photography 33" Umbrella Complete Photo Studio Lighting Kit Vedio Light<br />(Its item # 271005963876)<br /><br />ANY advice would help me out tremendously... and I know I could probably read for the next 2 years on how to photograph models, but any general thoughts for this situation would be great. Thanks!!!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sunley Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 <p>Start with the Learning Tab at the top of this page and also spend a few days reading all the threads on inexpensive lighting kits. Three 45w probably cfl bulbs aren't very bright for photography, but I imagine the kit has a decent profit margin for the seller. :)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_scheitrowsky1 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Use natural light from a big window, or get away from the cliche shots and take the pictures outside in natural light. With lighting gear, as with most things, you get what you pay for. Cheap lighting gear is, well, cheap. Just my opinion. To do a job right, having the proper tools goes a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_l32 Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 <p>Yes, I am in agreement now that is well underpowered, but I cannot afford a real camera with a hot shoe either, so basically I need the cheapest solution for the brightest usable light.<br> And natural light sucks in this room, north window, brown fence backdrop. Outdoor shooting is also near impossible because some shots will be intimate, like Victoria secret stuff, and needs to be on a smooth backdrop and dont feel like masking out every shot I take outdoors.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sunley Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 <p>Well go buy a four pack of the brightest CFL bulbs you can find at the store, put them in fixtures in the room and see how much light you have by taking some test shots and see what the exposure is that can "freeze" subject motion and give you enough depth of field. If it's not bight enough, you need more light. Without external flash units, you could need lots of CFL bulbs. :(</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_deerfield Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 <blockquote> <p>Yes, I am in agreement now that is well underpowered, but I cannot afford a real camera with a hot shoe either, so basically I need the cheapest solution for the brightest usable light.</p> </blockquote> <p>First, it isn't underpowered, it's completely worthless for portrait photography. On the cheap side of things, a bedsheet could be used at a makeshift diffusion panel and then you need to find a way to light a bedsheet so as to throw enough light onto your subject. There is no way around this, you are going to need flash. If you don't have the funds, then just forget about doing anything professional (professional results require both knowledge and tools) and simply use the flash on your point and shoot for some snapshots.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_batters Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 <p>After you have perused the lighting tutorials on P-Net and the Strobist site,<br> studying some videos on YouTube may also help with low budget DIY solutions.</p> <p> /> /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_l32 Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 <p>Yes, I am in agreement now that is well underpowered, but I cannot afford a real camera with a hot shoe either, so basically I need the cheapest solution for the brightest usable light.<br> And natural light sucks in this room, north window, brown fence backdrop. Outdoor shooting is also near impossible because some shots will be intimate, like Victoria secret stuff, and needs to be on a smooth backdrop and dont feel like masking out every shot I take outdoors.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_l32 Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 <p> Someone else had suggested on an even lower budget, how about using about 4 (500W) halogen worklights, and shine them through a thin white sheet set up around the shot? I heard some photo students do this as well. Cost would be under $50 and I can adjust. I know this is a totally ghetto set up, but all I care is the shot turns out "good enough."</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sunley Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 <p>Might be bright enough, just remember 4x500 watt lamps are HOT lamps, easy to start a fire with, and can easily overload the wiring inside the walls and cause a fire that way as well.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_redmann Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 <p><em>I am about to get in the business of needing to photo some model . . . .</em></p> <p>Seriously, you need to re-think this business. It's hard enough to make any new business succeed. But when you have essentially no money to invest in the business, success seems almost impossible. That is just the reality of business.</p> <p>As for equipment: 10 MP is plenty enough for lots of uses, but (among other issues) a camera that lacks a hot shoe (or PC connection or some other good way to sync with a flash) is not likely to be a good choice. Just last night my local Craigslist had an older (ca. 2006) Samsung DSLR (6 MP) with the kit lens for $100. That would probably be a much better choice. Older Nikon, Canon, and Sony DSLR's are regularly available for $250 or so.</p> <p>As for lighting: the minimum I can see giving semi-professional-type results would be a Strobist-type setup, which will probably cost $150 to $250. Check out the Strobist website (http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/). Also, the 4 x 500 W shop lights need a lot of power--a regular household 15 A circuit cannot handle that much, and a 20 A circuit may be marginal--even if nothing else is plugged in. You may need to use two different circuits just to power-up the lights. And yes, they will get hot.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 <p>OK, you can buy some cheap workshop floodlights now for $xx. That's xx dollars you won't have later on to spend on decent gear that's going to be useful to you in future. My advice would be to spend that $xx on upgrading your camera to something that can fire an external flash. It doesn't have to be expensive, because people just don't want "old" digital cameras.<br> For example I recently bought a Nikon Coolpix 8800 bridge-type camera for £20 (= about $30 US)! It's only 8 megapixels, but that's enough for most purposes. It has a good quality 10x zoom lens and has a hotshoe that will allow it to synch with any external flash. So you don't have to spend a fortune to get a halfway decent camera. Besides, using a compact isn't going to teach you much about photo technique.</p> <p>Once you have a camera that can fire an external flash you can pick up old manual flashguns for next-to-nothing - maybe $5 or $10 each. Again people want all-singing and dancing x-TTL strobes to sit on top of their fancy DSLRs and blast out the awful light that you only get from on-camera flash. The exposure might be right, but the quality of light is totally wrong!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 <p>To the OP. you should consult forums dedicated to Pin-Up, Glamor and Boudoir photography.</p> <p>Much of this style imagery is seductive, soft and dreamy ... using fast aperture lenses and diffused lighting ... either available light with reflectors (if the light is available) ... or highly controlled off-camera lighting. No one I know of uses an "all-dancing DSLR and blasts on-camera awful light." However, many Glamor, Fashion and Boudoir photographers use studio strobes, large soft-boxes, beauty dishes, etc ... and the bedroom boudoir scenes are often staged in studio on a closed set so they can place lights, booms, reflector panels and flags without restriction ... Victoria Secret doesn't get that look by accident, or completely at the whim of available light.</p> <p>So, is there a bigger room in the place you'll be shooting? One with some better available light? Do you have a friend with a better camera/faster lens, or is there a place you can rent one for a day? Look up rentals, it's less expensive than you may think.</p> <p>If you want to "get into the business" the most important thing is to take wow images that the subject LOVES ... so don't cripple yourself going into it right off the bat. Spend what little money you have on things that'll make a big difference.</p> <p>BTW, I do some of this work, but it has evolved to include "Fitness/Glamor" clients which is a totally different lighting scenario because the pictorial objective is defined body toning. Like this:</p> <p> </p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_l32 Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 <p>Thanks guys for the continued help... a few more inputs from me, but I think I am getting close to what I need for NOW... and I DO want to get a nice DSLR but I have to wait until I make some $$$... then my next post will be whats the best lighting + DSLR solution for under 5k, etc... but for now:<br /> 1. Strobe not possible without upgrading my camera or using getting one of the light-triggered flashes... but since I WILL want a "decent" DSLR as soon as I make some money, I at least want to get something I can use later as well.<br />2. Cannot borrow/purchase-return stuff because this is more than a one day job. I have done that before for one day video shoots etc., but not for this.<br />3. Getting that cheap umbrella set and getting high wattage bulbs, or how about shining 1000W halogens on them instead, or shine them thru the white sheet.<br />4. And/or combine #3 with using a reflector and reflecting sunlight into my northfacing room, and surround her with white sheets as reflectors and use the softened 1000W halogens to "fill in" the blanks?<br />5. I am planning on doing maybe a 1-1.5 shoot maybe once per week to start. The room is also the coldest room in the house and my a/c works very well. Therefore I am not worried about electricity or heat for this amount of usage.<br />6. This is MY project and the model is my friend and co-owner of the project, so she'll suffer a little 80 degree room for 1.5 hrs if needed, that is the LEAST of our worries... not worried about pissing off Giselle and Vogue.<br> One question: For using satin bed sheets, is white bad there, too much "wrong" reflection from the bottom up? Should I go with a beige? I dont care about the "theme" of the color, I just dont want it to hurt the shot's lighting, IF there is such a thing.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_madio Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 <p>From the original post "I will get a better camera as soon as I can afford it, but for my purpose right now, I think lighting is much more important" ... something that may not be apparent right now is that the better camera does indeed give you better lighting because with flash, you can control the ambient (it's like a double exposure). For example, with a flash setup you can use a white background and have it render all the way from solid white to full black and every shade in between ... this is much harder using only ambient light. The fundamental point here is that going to a camera with external flash capability and a single off-camera flash, you're getting a second light (ambient) free and gaining much needed control.<br> <br> If you really can't afford a camera upgrade now (get a used DSLR), shoot with what you have and use ambient light (windows, etc.). Don't spend on non-flash lights as it's money you can put towards a better camera or more useful lights. There are plenty of serviceable inexpensive flash units on the market now so if you shop wisely and you can get great "studio" results for a few hundred dollars (that's including a used DSLR!). You might also consider getting creative with financing and getting your model to kick in some funds to get you going.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 <blockquote>No one I know of uses an "all-dancing DSLR and blasts on-camera awful light."</blockquote> <p>You've never seen a paparazzo at work then?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_l32 Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 <p>@Michael: Thanks for the info! I understand all u r saying, and I agree overall... but I already ordered the 2x500W halogens with tripod for $30 off ebay, will order a few satin white sheets for the backdrop and bed/floor cover, and a couple of soft reflectors off Amazon to bring in daylight, $100 total. I'll upgrade later when I feel the business has potential. She would pitch in a few dollars but not much more so.... Luckily, most clients dont mind if they see some amateur snapshots, so all this is an upgrade without looking TOO professional, which they would actually NOT prefer. Thanks again!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_l32 Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 <p>Ok, a couple of things have changed... I am not locked to get that halogen light anymore, so I am off that hook... which means, that + halogen color temp + hi temps + additional white screen for it + not be enuff light compared to sunlight being reflected in + my sucky P&S, + everything else u guys said + I may be able to afford a DSLR sooner than I thought thanks to a new job I was just hired for... but I wont be starting for a bit, and this project needs to actually start BEFORE I start the other job, so for now, I am going to BestBuy, getting the best camera I can for my project, and then later trade it in for something I really wanna keep and can afford.<br /> So I think now this is what I need:</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_l32 Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 <p>1) 2-3 of those reflectors from Amazon to bring in daylight and cover part of my red wall opposite the window to shine back to the model<br />2) A few non-satin white sheets to use as a backdrop and base, and maybe cover the rest of the red wall... I guess I can always add light pink/cream etc. later for variety...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_l32 Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 <p>3) 1 (maybe 2 if I wanna shoot on a rainy day?) strobe flashes (used with DSLR hotshoe) If so which one(s)... I would still like best value and just good enough again for my purpose, dont need hi-mid or top of the line</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_l32 Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 <p><br />�4) FYI, I have a flash from my old AE-1, lol... its the Sakar 22A, Guide No. 30 (ASA25) 60 (ASA100m)... is this good enough for my main camera flash + 1-2 strobes?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_l32 Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 <p>5. and..... drum roll...... a DSLR.... I am just gonna go to the local worstbuy and pick one up, price doesnt really matter right now since its going on credit card and I will trade it in later... so now u know what I need it for, please help me choose one... I think for now I will just get one with the lens, too much of a pain to get separate lens and deal with that, esp since this will already be such a huge improvement from where I was right... so I guess we pick the one with best combo of body+lens (and for the sake of debate with others here or elsewhere, please succinctly state why u like that one best for me and my project... I just pray everyone agrees on 1!):</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_l32 Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 <p>From BB:<br />($4300) Canon - EOS 5D Mark III 22.3-Megapixel Digital SLR Camera with EF 24-105mm Lens - Black<br />($2700) Canon - Canon EOS 5D Mark II 21.1-Megapixel DSLR Camera with EF 24-105mm Lens - Black<br />($1800) Canon - EOS 7D 18.0-Megapixel DSLR Camera with 18-135mm Lens - Black<br />($1700) Canon - EOS 7D 18.0-Megapixel DSLR Camera with 28-135mm Lens Kit - Black<br />($1700) Canon EOS 60D 18.0MP DSLR Camera Kit, Battery, 16GB Memory Card & 70-300mm Lens</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_l32 Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 <p>Hopefully one of these will be good enough and I'll go from there. Sorry for all the other crap, but I am sure most of u r letting out a sigh of relief! Thanks so much for all your help! <br />(Apologies for this retarded separate posts... this site wouldnt let me post one big response, what a pain... and it wont let me use bullets)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_redmann Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 <p><em>price doesnt really matter right now since its going on credit card and I will trade it in later</em></p> <p>Huh? Digital cameras tend to depreciate quickly; do not buy one without accepting that if you sell it, you might only get 60% of your money back. But more generally, spend less on a camera, be careful with what lenses you buy, and spend the rest on lighting. If you really want to spend the kind of money you're talking about ($1700 to $4300!)--<strong>which I think would be a mistake, you appear to be far too inexperienced, unfocused, and indefinite, and I can't see how this is justifiable on a business basis</strong>--then I'd say buy a Nikon D5100 (body only, $547), a Nikon 35mm f/1.8G ($197) and/or a Nikon 50mm f/1.8G ($217) (depending on how big your space is--smaller space = buy the 35mm lens), and a Nikon 85mm f/1.8G ($497), for a camera system total of $1241 to $1458 (plus a couple of SD cards), and then go get a basic Alien Bees lighting kit (couple of B800's and accessories plus a set of their CyberSyncs, see, e.g., http://paulcbuff.com/pkg-beginnerbee.php and http://paulcbuff.com/cybersync.php; we're talking total another $870 or so). So for about $2200 you'd have a very capable setup. (If you're set on Canon, then a 60D, and Canon's 50mm f1/.8 and 85mm f/1.8, would be fine too.)</p> <p>Of course, knowing how to use the equipment is the more important part. Don't under-estimate the learning curve.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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