Which analogue Body ??

[nozar_kishi]

<p>Richard</p>

<p>If I wanted to come to the best choice by comparing the mechanical and electronic characteristics, then I would choose Nikon FM10; cheap, and expendable. The same with M7; more expensive, but not reliable, nor joy of mechanical touch.<br>

If I am talking about the feel, the ease, the response, the companionship, of a camera, then there is only one choice: MP. I got two of them: 0.72 and 0.58, Normal and Wide. Black paint (now yellowed), with silky change of film, quiet shutter sound especially when film is in the camera, very hardship (and reminding of mechanical age) of rewinding the film, velvety feel of the paint, crystal clear viewfinder, bright frame marks, ...<br>

And, an advice: sell your M9 for an MM (Monochrom) :) </p>

[richard_john_edwards]

<p>Nozar, the Leica MM is very tempting but until i win the lottery that will have to wait.</p>

[Didier Lamy]

"I think the MP will become more of a Classic in time and therefore a companion for life."

I would love to get a MP "for life", but who will die first? Stats tell me that I have no more than ~25 years before becoming gaga, will a MP be able to stay alive for that long with enough films, chemistry, film scanners, etc..?

[charlie lemay]

I had an MP for a few years, but hardly use a meter. I also had an M2 with M4 film loading, modern frame lines and modern sync

terminals, all done by Don Golberg. I could not see any difference in quality, so I sold the MP and bought a black repaint M2 and had Don

do the same modifications. I could not be happier, but the lure of the glossy black paint brassing still haunts me every time I see one on

sale, even though my MP was Silver.

[nozar_kishi]

<p>Richard;<br>

I am a Leica-manioc. Through the years, I have saved and bought many of them, and am using them all. However, for the MM, believe me, I am selling (follow it next week on eBay) an M8, an M7 with motor drive, an M6 (panda), an M4-2, three Voigtlander wide and one normal Zeiss lenses. Still my estimation is that I have to take from pocket another grand to buy that MM. I have put an order on B&H. I know, it is a shame, but it is a 32 equivalent mega pixel, 10K ISO, no noise to 6400 (and grain afterwards) camera that uses color filters like the old days, etc. It will be all of the cameras I noted, into one body (provided you only shoot B&W). I hope I have made the right decision!</p><div></div>

[richard_john_edwards]

<p>Nozar, My wife will kill me, but you have me thinking now, Perhaps the MM and an MP for film?</p>

[richard_john_edwards]

<p>Just found out a cost for one of the MM cameras will be $10,000 Get real Leica.</p>

[dr._karl_hoppe]

<p>M7, but make sure you have the later version with the optical DX and improved viewfinder. If you don't trust the DX setting, set it manually. I own an M2, M5, M6 and M7, and the M7 is my favourite by far.</p>

[nozar_kishi]

<p>Karl<br>

Is M7 your favorite by far, because it is the only Automatic camera that you have, or because it is the most reliable of the four?</p>

[dr._karl_hoppe]

<p>Nozar,</p>

<p>Got lazy in my old age, plus I like to set the lens opening and then use a hyperfocal distance setting so I don't have to continually focus.</p>

<p>The M7 is very reliable but I once forgot to bring spare batteries and could not shoot anything for that outing. If I had the M2 with me, that would not have happened. </p>

<p>The other automatic camera I have is a real gem, a Minolta CLE, super compact, but I've heard there are no more spare parts available should it need servicing.</p>

[nozar_kishi]

<p>Karl<br>

Automatic shutter format is very popular, even among the professionals, let alone mortals like us. The weakness of M7, in using the Auto mode, however, is that it reads the exposure off a small circle that is more a spot metering rather than average. As a result compensation does not help much. Leica has corrected this shortcoming in M9, wherein there are three blades covering almost three quarter of the frame area (do not know the exact percentage): middle horizontal blade is white, and the blades under and over it are 18% grey.<br>

Your M2 would be a gem. Use it manually and get better results than M7. Set the shutter speed at a number closest to film ISO, and then follow the Sunny-16 rule (you can find guideline on internet). This is the way great magicians like Frank and Bresson, Kertez and Capa used. It is faster than automatic+compensation method. <br>

Minolta CLE and its Leica sister are under-appreciated cameras. Enjoy it!</p>

[kyoken74]

<p>@Richard, Your wife may kill you for buying MM and MP, but at least you can take comfort in knowing you will die a happy man.</p>

[stuart_richardson]

<p>Nozar, I would say the spot meter is the advantage of the M7 (or M9) as opposed to the weakness. It is very easy to learn where the metering area is, and it never changes, unlike Matrix metering or other systems that try to do the thinking for you. It is, by the way, basically identical to the meter in the MP and M6 too.</p>

<p>Autoexposure does not mean that you have to use it blindly. I almost never shoot blindly. I tend to meter and recompose. It tells you the shutter speed in the viewfinder, so you just point the camera at something that looks like what you want to expose for, and if the number looks right, then a half press, compose and shoot. It is extremely quick in process, because you only ever really need to point the camera slightly up towards the sky to get higher speeds and down at the ground to get lower...it takes me less time to do this than it does to take the camera away from my eye and set a shutter speed. Manually setting the shutter speed does work best in a single consistent lighting condition, but in variable light, the technique I describe above can allow much quicker and surer work than most other M's (primarily because you see the shutter speed, so you don't need to count clicks as the shutter speed dial turns or remove your eye from the finder).</p>

<p>And I would also point out that "A" is just one setting on the M7...take it off a"A" and it works just like an MP, M6 or earlier cameras. In that sense, it is functionally superior...it adds something without taking anything away (leaving aside the battery vs. mechanical issue, which has already been stated above).</p>

[nozar_kishi]

<p>Stuart<br>

I like your approach. I will used it from now on; thank you.<br>

My personal way of using M7 or M8 (that have automatic exposure reading) is to preset the compensation ring on minus 1 to minus 2, depending on the situation and Subject Brightness Range, and then aim at a Zone 4 or 3 grey scale, half-press the shutter, and compose/frame and shoot. It helps me to shoot for shadows and let the bright fall where it wanted.<br>

I am a Leica lover, but admit I love Nikon's Matrix reading; more than 90% of the time, it is spot on. </p>

[kyoken74]

@Stuart, I had no idea you could lock

the meter reading buy half pressing the

shutter button. I'll have to try that with

my M8. Only way I knew how to

compensate exposure with an

automatic camera was to adjust the

ISO setting, which of course does not

work with digital cameras... This was

one of the reasons why I preferred

manual film camera over

digital/automatic. Your meter locking

trick might finally give me what I always

wanted in M8. Thanks for the tip.

[aplumpton]

<p>Having had several M Leicas and still using some of them, I think that if you are interested in a competent RF M-mount autoexposure body you might do a lot worse than try the Konica RF camera, discontinued (Konica has dropped from the scene), but often available in mint condition. I know you have narrowed your choice to an M7 or MP, but mine worked beautifully over several years and I would not be surprised at all if it is still working well in the hands of its purchaser 5 years later (camera sold to fund an M8). A svelte and efficient camera, often overlooked.</p>

[Jeffrey L.T. von Glück]

<p>Stuart,</p>

<p>I have to agree with you. The great advantage is the spot metering. I bought an M7 several years ago and it is by far my favorite M body. I can use it on automatic or meter manually. I'd rather know what I'm metering than rely on some amorphous "matrix" pattern.</p>

[richard_john_edwards]

I thought they were centre weighted metering, not spot metering.

[nozar_kishi]

<p>Richard<br>

M7 is neither an average meter, nor a spot meter. It reads the average light off a big spot, in fact a 12mm circle in the middle of the frame. It is a circle meter! The weakness of this circle-metering, if you are to use it as a spot meter, is that you can never find a big portion of the subject in the same zone, and as a result the burden is on the photographer to guesstimate it. M7 needs lots of dedication to get used to it. It is a love-or-hate camera. </p>

[stuart_richardson]

<p>Richard, it depends on what you call a "spot". It is either a small center weighted or a large spot.</p>

<p>Nozar, just so no one is confused, it is also important to realize that the meter in the M7 is the same as in the MP and M6 (or at least functionally the same). So the metering pattern itself is not a reason to choose or not choose an M7 over an MP or M6. They all function identically other than you being able to use AE on the M7. </p>

<p>Yuki -- glad it helped! AE lock is a pretty standard feature...most cameras that have AE include it...the M7, M8 and M9 are not exceptions. And I will agree with Arthur too...you can find much worse cameras than the Hexar RF! I had one before the M7 and enjoyed it a great deal. It does, however, have a different metering pattern, and it can throw you off a bit if you are used to the Leicas. It is more of a center-bottom weighted meter...designed not to let the sky lead to underexposure. There is a picture of it in the manual. Always important to read the manual!</p>

[nozar_kishi]

<p>Yes, Stuart. M6, M7, and MP are all the same. They all read off the white circle that is on the curtain. Only in M8 and M9 the circle is changed into semi rectangular blades. <br />My (very personal) view was that, if the metering is neither spot nor average, then using the automatic mode needs so much attention that a person should rethink if a manual (M6 and MP) would be better; at least with M6 and MP you should not worry about battery life, and circuitry malfunctions (like the DX issue). Of course, as you and Karl, and some others, noted, M7 is your Leica of choice. Only it is not mine (again, totally personal).</p>

[aplumpton]

<p>I recognize that "spot metering" has seemed to have taken different meanings since the average metering of older cameras were replaced by more constricted metering of more recent cameras (more recent can even mean mid 1980s on). My hand held Minolta spot meter, like many others of its type, yields a 1 degree angle of capture, quite different from the Leica "spot metering". Another hand held meter, which accepts a 5 degree "spot"attachment, provides a bigger spot, but one that is still smaller than the Leica TTL metering. The true spot meters allowed us to compare the reflectance of different relatively small areas within the intended field of view in order to decide upon best exposure..</p>

[michael_habermann]

<p>Since 1976 I'm using a wonderful spot meter with a variable metering field from 1° to 35°, it's the scarcely known <strong><em>BEWI Zoom Spot</em> </strong>from <strong><em>BERTRAM, Munich</em></strong>. It was cheaper than all the Japanese stuff of those years and is still working perfectly. If you see one, grab it, you'll never regret!</p>

[richard_john_edwards]

<p>I phones have apps formetering, i wonderhow good they are, i tested a free download and it seemed to be consistant with my leica readings.</p>

[uk]

My opinion is that the M7 is a much more useable camera body than the MP, but the MP is more beautiful and a pleasure

to own.

 

I shot both together at weddings and on the street. The M7 was much faster to use when under pressure of time; switch

to auto and then concentrate on the lens aperture and focus setting. When travelling light, the M7 was the body I took

with me.

 

Subsequently, I bought an M9 and an M9-P for my wedding work and decided that one of the film cameras had to be

sold. I sold the M7 because I thought that the remaining camera would be less used, would be with me for a long time,

would always fire-up without a stock of batteries and most importantly, would maintain it's value.

 

When I became somewhat disenchanted with the M9s, I considered a return to using film Ms for weddings and purchased

a beautiful silver MP with a x0.85 viewfinder.

 

Use an M7, cherish an MP. :-)