Wife is unhappy

[ryanmontgomery]

<p><em>"After all, it's his job to make sure everything is right. So I don't see how he can duck 100% of the blame here if the problem is serious.</em>"<br /> The photographer in question has already done a good job, as has been stated. If the flowers had been the wrong colour is it their responsibility to re-colour them? If it rains do they have to substitute a sunny sky?<br /> The responsibility of the photographer must end somewhere!</p>

[personalphotos]

<p>David, My last comment on this so as not to totally hijack this thread. 1) The photographer is there to document and couldn't possibly be in control of everything. They have a lot more to do than you may realize. As you said, you've never been in this situation from either side of the camera. I've been at this for over 20 years, averaging 30 weddings a year.</p>

<p>2) Last thing I'd do is question the choices a bride has made with another vendor or for her wedding that's she's been planning for 2 years or more. Next time you're shooting a wedding and faced with what<em> in only your opinion</em> is a mistake or poor choice, I want you to tell the bride her hair looks like a mess and should be redone. No matter how diplomatic I think I could be, I wouldn't say that to my wife on her way to work let alone a day she's anticipated for years. If she had whip cream from that Latte on her chin, I'd say something but not her choices for her wedding.</p>

<p>John H, Points taken and you are right, a little thinking outside the box may be in order.</p>

[Jerry_]

<p>1. If you have offered to pay the wedding photographer for reshooting images of you and your wife, he/she may be nuts. The goal of wedding photography is to keep customers happy, along with increasing your bank account.</p>

<p>2. You may consider drafting up a pair of letters. One, to express your wife's satisfaction that a reshoot was scheduled and completed at her request. Be upbeat and offer to recommended the wedding photographer as a reference. <strong>The other letter</strong>: simply state that you are not a satisfied customer. You will likely go to the local Better Business Bureau, and if you can get your lawyer's OK, put a "why a reshoot, for pay offered, could not be accomplished" on the Internet...with a strong "do not hire" warning in your posts.</p>

<p>You may take the pair of letters to your photographer and ask which one he/she likes best?</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p> </p>

[daverhaas]

<p>1) I don't see why the photographer is rushing to get the album done... aren't they planning on including shots from the "After" shoot in the book anyway? Doesn't seem like a big deal to do the recreations if that's what you want. </p>

<p>2) You're not asking the photographer to return to the venue for the photos. You have a session scheduled at their studio (right?)</p>

<p>3) Send the photographer an email or call them and tell them not to print the album until you and your bride have approved it. That part should be in your contract. Look at the album and see what you think about the photos. </p>

<p>Photographers are not perfect - most of us though are perfectionists. I've noticed things with makeup on my brides before - usually a discrete word or two with them clears things up. However, if the entire makeup job was misdone - that is a new one. </p>

<p>Did your wife do a practice session with the makeup artist? If she did - did she say anything to indicate that the makeup was too light or dark? If she didn't do a practice session or didn't mention the lightness or darkness of makeup - then I'd suggest that you contact the make-up artist and present the fact that the makeup job was too "light". Work with the makeup artist for compensation - either in the form of payment for a new photoshoot or in worse case - reprinting and redesign of the album. </p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[ryanmontgomery]

<blockquote>

<p>1. If you have offered to pay the wedding photographer for reshooting images of you and your wife, he/she may be nuts. The goal of wedding photography is to keep customers happy, along with increasing your bank account.<br>

2. You may consider drafting up a pair of letters. One, to express your wife's satisfaction that a reshoot was scheduled and completed at her request. Be upbeat and offer to recommended the wedding photographer as a reference. <strong>The other letter</strong>: simply state that you are not a satisfied customer. You will likely go to the local Better Business Bureau, and if you can get your lawyer's OK, put a "why a reshoot, for pay offered, could not be accomplished" on the Internet...with a strong "do not hire" warning in your posts.<br>

You may take the pair of letters to your photographer and ask which one he/she likes best?<br>

Good luck!</p>

</blockquote>

<p>1. If the photographer doesn't have the available time then no amount of money will help, it's my personal opinion that the photographer may help but they are under no obligation to do so, it would be going above and beyond.<br>

2. This is as close to blackmail as makes no difference. If the MUA made a mistake, they should be the ones asking / throwing money at the photographer to re-shoot<strong> the photographer should in no way have her business threatened or be blackmailed into doing something she doesn't want to or doesn't feel comfortable doing. Nobody should be put in this position through no fault of their own.</strong></p>

[personalphotos]

<p>Ryan, glad you said it. I knew from the beginning we'd get posts like this. People suggesting ways to extort an outcome. Fortunately there are laws against this and people have sued for defamation when these types of tactics are tried.</p>

<p>Matt (the OP) has gotten some advice and seems to have decided how to handle the situation and left "the room". I would encourage Nadine to close this thread since it serves no further purpose. If Matt needs further help, he can start a new thread.</p>

[lindsay_dobson]

<p>I've not had a chance to read the entire thread and I have ignored any references to blaming any third parties and extorting compensation - that is both unnecessary and distasteful. It's likely what I'm about to say has been covered, but this is my take on things:</p>

<p>OP - whilst your wife was having her makeup applied, and through the period which followed, she will have been looking in a mirror quite often. It will have been clear to her at this point if the makeup was too light. Therefore it is the client's responsibility to speak up if they feel something is amiss. The makeup artists I've met all ask the client periodically if their eyes/base/lipstick is how they want it and adjustments are then made, and all the brides I've met are forthcoming in feedback as things progress. I'm afraid that responsibility lies with your wife.</p>

<p>Second, I presume you and your wife will have seen the pictures before choosing the images for your album. That would be the time to point out the makeup and ask if the photographer could tone it down appropriately.</p>

<p>In terms of remedies, if the photographer has not yet sent the album to print then I see no problem with asking her to hold on to it while you're deciding what you want to do. Paying the photographer to re-stage some of the images (or retouch them) is a reasonable request but you may have to wait a little while for the wedding season to present a slot for this.</p>

<p> </p>

[picturesque]

<p><strong>Moderator Note:</strong> I don't see a reason to close this thread. We don't know if Matthew has 'left the room' or not. If he has, he might be missing out on some advice others have posted since. However, all of us can learn from this incident, and that is value enough.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>I asked some questions of Matthew (others have too) that have not been answered so it is hard to comment further. However, I would say that blaming this person or that person and forcing outcomes are pointless actions.</p>

<p>The fact is, Matthew's wife is unhappy and emotionally so. The fact is, should the photographer go ahead and print the album, this situation will become worse.</p>

<p>We cannot say what is right or wrong for the photographer. She is going to do what she will.</p>

<p>So as far as I see Matthew has a few choices.</p>

<p>1. Have a long talk with the photographer in which it is made clear that you do not approve of going ahead with the album yet. As has been pointed out, it is unusual for a photographer to go ahead with an album without getting some approval from the client.</p>

<p>2. Try to negotiate the bridal session with reasonable compensation. There is no industry standard on such situations, so it is up to the photographer. It is unusual for a photographer to pay so little attention to customer wishes--I will say that.</p>

<p>3. Suggest some digital retouching on some images, with appropriate compensation--the most important ones, and the ones in which the bride's face appears larger. The success of this depends on the photographer's skill with retouching. Some photographers are very, very good. Others aren't. Without seeing the images, it is impossible to say what can be done, but that is even beside the point--if the photographer is unwilling to do retouching, that's that, without going to a specialist retoucher.</p>

<p>I will also say that using 'filters', such as converting to sepia or black and white, will solve color mismatches, but won't solve the issue of the face being lighter than the rest of the body. However, it is easier to tone down the value of the face in a monotone or duotone image, than it is for matching color and density on a full color image.</p>

[Mike D]

<p>You might try posting one of the images to let other photographers see what they can do to color correct your wife's face. Another idea, how would the photos look in black & white? Color doesn't matter as much wit B&W.</p>

[jeff_sudduth]

<blockquote>

<p>We cannot say what is right or wrong for the photographer.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sure we can. In situations like this as a customer I look at what the business is obligated by law to do. That is the only thing you can enforce. As a couple of other posters have indicated the make up is totally out of the control of the photographer. Besides making some suggestions about where people should stand or lighting every thing else is out of the photographers hands. I've seen wedding pictures of brides that are as big as a whale. They look awful. Is a photographer supposed to come in and say we can't shoot this until you get on Jenny Craig? I've seen some atrocious brides made dresses. Is the photographer supposed to come in and say get some D&G or I will not shoot? Okay so what if the photographer came in and said the make up was too light... after the make up artist spent a couple of hours working? How do you think the make up artist is going to feel about that? Now you are affecting the make up artist's business. If your OPINION causes a problem between the make up artist and their client now they can come after you.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>1. If you have offered to pay the wedding photographer for reshooting images of you and your wife, he/she may be nuts. The goal of wedding photography is to keep customers happy, along with increasing your bank account.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Photographers must obey the laws of physics. If they have no time during the season for a reshoot they cannot just "create" time out of thin air. They hired a wedding photographer not a personal servant. We have no idea how booked this photographer is. We aren't really sure what the OP's wife ultimately wants and we have not seen the "bad" pictures. If I was booked wall to wall and had a bunch of other clients I needed to make happy I would have very little enthusiasm about revisiting an account that by the clients' own admission I did an excellent job with just because some other third party <em>may</em> have screwed up.</p>

<p>Frankly what I would do is speak to the photographer and tell them I will pay for their services and the wedding album immediately. I would also say let's put the wedding album and all other shoots on hold until after the season when the photographer has more dead time. Then at the photographer's convenience we will show up for a shooting session. In addition we will pay a reasonable fee for this accommodation if it is necessary. I find if you are professional and acknowledge that the business did nothing wrong and that you are willing to work on their terms AND compensate them in full up front they are far more willing to work with you. But insinuating that they need to be the make up police and threatening them is an exceedingly dumb thing to do.</p>

[lindsay_dobson]

<p>Nadine - why are you recommending (twice) that the OP requests 'compensation' from the photographer? That doesn't make any sense. The photographer has done nothing wrong but is apparently being punished for the fact that the client failed to tell the makeup artist on the day that the base was too light - brides are usually facing a mirror during their preparations and they are normally vocal if something is amiss. Second, the OP and his wife will, I presume, have seen the pictures in order to choose images for their album. If the photos were unappealing then clearly that would be the time to speak up - not that the photographer is obliged to act or 'compensate' them in any way. As I said, requesting that the photographer holds onto the album is probably best at this stage while they decide whether they wish to pay (in full) for a re-shoot or pay for additional retouching. </p>

 

[savagesax]

Digital is forgving. For example, if there is a spot on the dress almost always the spot won't show up on the dress. Same with makeup, digital can be very forgiving.

[fotografz]

<p>Write a glowing letter and a damaging one to extort a wanted action from some photographer who had nothing to do with the make-up choices at all? Really? </p>

<p>Has anyone seen the final images the photographer plans using in the album? Maybe they are already corrected.</p>

<p>If the client <em>has</em> seen the finals, and is <em>still</em> not pleased, then ANYTHING can be retouched ... it just depends on the skill of the retoucher ... and wedding photographers are NOT the most skilled at this. There are people that retouch for a living, and many good ones are less expensive than If we did our own work because they are faster, have the techniques down pat, and have a zillion post programs they are expert on. </p>

<p>BTW, different density face make-up compared to a tanned body is common and really not all that difficult to fix. The worst was when it was vogue to brush on sparkle for more skin luminosity ... which when flash was used, lit up like crazy.</p>

<p> </p>

[daverhaas]

<p>Lindsay - </p>

<p>I reread Nadine's last post twice - She is not suggesting that the OP get compensated from the photographer - she is suggesting - twice - that the OP offer compensation TO the photographer for either a) a reshoot or b) additional touchup work on the photos for print / album. </p>

<p>As pointed out by Nadine - and others - good customer service would dictate that at a minimum the bride and groom see the images before the album is printed. From the OP's post it is not clear if that indeed has happened, and if it has, it is clear that the bride is not going to be happy with the images. </p>

<p>If the bride is not happy that means it is time for the photographer to put on the brakes and stop the presses. Literally. I get it that it is her busy season. It is for most of us. What it appears the photographer is saying is - I've got to turn this around fast - or I'll get behind and lose customers. What she needs to say is "How can I turn this into a win for both the bride and groom and myself?" It may mean rescheduling another shoot, or having a 2nd do a shoot or working a little late to get them in. But she shouldn't be saying - got to get this done - no time for a reshoot. </p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[lindsay_dobson]

<p>I misread Nadine's post then I offer my apologies. </p>

<p>I fully agree that instructing the photographer to hold back the album is the best way forward, I alluded to that in my response. The photographer should not be insisting that it goes to press right now, if indeed that is what she is doing. I think the OP should put something to that effect in writing as soon as possible and send it to the photographer via registered post together with a request for a discussion regarding possible remedies. There seem to be some pieces missing from the story and perhaps the OP will return with some clarification. Perhaps the OP just needs to be firmer, or maybe the requests might be better served if they come from his wife who is well placed to explain the problem to the photographer.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Jeff--you took my comments out of context. By saying we can't say what is right or wrong for the photographer, I meant that we cannot pass judgement on her decision to, for instance, not allow the couple to do the after wedding shoot with wedding clothes on due to her time constraints. I believe you are arguing that she has the right to say this and the right to run her business the way she wants to. Some people above were making comments that the photographer 'should' do this or 'should' do that. I happen to agree that she can do as she pleases with her business. And furthermore, she will. Which brings me back to my original comment. Matthew can only work with what she is willing to do, unfortunately.</p>

<p>Lindsay--David is right. I meant to suggest that Matthew try to negotiate the after wedding shoot with extra compensation for the photographer's extra needed efforts.</p>

[matthew_baker5]

<p>just so everyone has closure... I am the OP and wanted to let everyone know how this whole thing shook out...<br>

I called the photographer and explained that my wife was unhappy with how some of the photos turned out because of the make up. I was very adament that we were, in fact, happy with the job of the photographer and that it was strictly an unfortunate result of the make up. I explained that we wanted her to put a hold on the book for now so that we could take the post wedding photos and see if it were possible to re-stage some of the wedding day pics so that they can replace the previous ones.<br>

The photgrapher was very, very, very understanding. She did let us know how great she thought the previous photos were and felt that there was no need to replace any shots and that maybe we should have a look at the prints before deciding.<br>

the compromise that we worked out was this: on Friday (aug 17th) we are going to go to her house to look at the prints and decide which ones we like for the book... if there are any shots that we like, but would NOT use because of the makeup misshap, then she is willing to reshoot the pose. She explained to me that because the sky had a lot of clouds that at the time of the shoot it was a perfect scene and our only hope to get a shot as good as the original would be to go to the exact same location and pray for as cloudy a day as the original shoot. In the event that the day is not as ideal, we will still shoot the re-shots and decide the following week if we prefer a lack of scenerey or a lack of skin color continuity. She even has us penciled in for that Sunday, just in case it were to rain on saturday.<br>

I felt this was a great compromise in that it gives the photographer a chance to make her case on Friday on the acceptability of the originals, but it also gives the bride the freedom to re-shoot if she so chooses. The photog did NOT ask for anymore compensation, which i kind of expected, since it wont take any more of her time than what was already agreed upon in the contract.<br>

Thanks to everyone who posted in the forum, it sounds like it got to be a pretty interesting discussion... im sorry i was absent over the weekend, but i have been resting to beat this cold....<br>

Hope everyone has a great day and thanks for helping!!!! </p>

[lindsay_dobson]

<p>Well Matthew, there you have it. Effective and polite communication will almost always reap dividends and as you can see photographers are almost always very understanding. Hopefully on seeing the images again you may even feel that a re-shoot is unnecessary. And if it is, please be aware that it costs the photographer quite a hit in fixed overheads just to step out of the door, and for every hour she shoots there will be many more hours spent downloading, backing up, editing and processing. However if the re-shoot is in lieu of other post wedding photography then as you say it will not take up any time above what was previously agreed. I hope your wife also appreciates the lengths your photographer is going to in order to satisfy her, given what I have said in my previous post.</p>

<p>Nadine - thanks for the clarification, sorry for any misunderstanding.</p>

[djthomas]

<blockquote>

<p>I appologize if this seems unreasonable, ive never been married so i dont know how most of this works.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I have been -- and for some time, and I still don't know how most of this works...marriage that is. The pictures are only the begining.</p>