Wife is unhappy

[matthew_baker5]

<p>I was recently married (7/21/12) and we had a great time. The photographer did a great job, so no complaints there, but i do have a sticky situation which i have been tasked to solve so i could use some advice.<br>

My wife got her makeup done and in the fury of a wedding, did not quite realize how "off color" her face make up was. It was ALOT whiter than her natural skin color. As the day went on and after the formal pictures were taken, she finally realized the discrepency.<br>

We have already paid for a cofee table book with fancy high gloss pages (which isnt cheap) and she understandable wants it to look perfect. She emailed the photogs to let them know that her desired solution is to restage the original photos of just the two of us at the bridal shoot at a later time with new make up but every thing else the same (same hair/tux/dress) so that these NEW photos can go into the book.<br>

The Photog wrote back her reluctance to re-shoot because of their timeline and availability and basically said "we have enough shots" and that they had basically already designed the book and the flow and the artistic direction.<br>

My wife is very upset and concerned that this book which we will have and look at forever will not live up to what she wants because all she will see is the make up miss hap and that the book will be ruined.<br>

Is our request for re-staging the wedding day shoot unreasonable if the photog thinks they got everything they need and want to move forward to print?<br>

Is the problem something that "digital magic" can easily fix without interupting the artistic "flow" that she obviously has in mind and is satisfied with?<br>

Any advice on how to approach the photog to get our desired results would be greatly appreciated. thanks everyone!<br>

-Caught in a tough spot</p>

[maryann_miles]

<p>I would think that the Photographer would have tried that immediately upon finding out she doesn't like the way she looks. Yes, definitely ask for that first. <br>

Is there compensation included with the re-shoot, since it was the make-up artist's mistake and not the Photographer's? <br>

I had the same issue; the "expert" put white, reflective makeup on my face which looked terrible. I feel for her!!</p>

[shawn_mertz]

<p>That is an unusal workflow to have a book designed in less than a week after the wedding. Maybe they can slow down some and have some proofs or test prints made to show you before printing the album.</p>

[matthew_baker5]

<p>well we arent proposing a re-shoot per se, we are just asking to be dressed in our wedding attire at the bridal shoot which is included in the package we purchased.<br>

we are more than willing to pay any additional fees for extra time, but it seems that the photog is happy with the original prints and the wife is not and they are reluctant to redo any shots that they deemed done already since it may delay the book being sent out, even though we explicitly told them we dont care about how long it takes to get our book back as long as we are happy with whats in it...</p>

[matthew_baker5]

<p>the photog said that she had never worked so quickly at getting a book ready to print. she says she is super excited about how it looks and it went so smoothly and had great shots which abled her to be ready so fast...</p>

[personalphotos]

<p>The following is confusing:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>well we arent proposing a re-shoot per se, we are just asking to be dressed in our wedding attire at the bridal shoot which is included in the package we purchased.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>To what end? If you are getting dressed and made up as you were on wedding day, then the point is a reshoot, no?</p>

<p>This situation is something you will have to solve between you and the photographer. I understand both points of view and this is a sticky situation that wasn't caused by your photographer. Most of us who post here are wedding/portrait.family photographers and will have an understandable reluctance to get in the middle of a situation such as this. </p>

<p>The photographers job was to record the day as it was and as you said, they did a very good job of doing exactly that. With all due respect, your wife has no issue with the photographer but should only be upset with the makeup person and be going back to her to fix this issue. </p>

<p>I would suggest that if the person who did the makeup did such a poor job, if I were your photographer and were to even have the time to do the reshoot, I would quote you what the cost was going to be and tell you to get the costs out of the makeup person up front before any further work was to be done.</p>

<p>The other issue is the time of year. Most active photographers are hardly getting any sleep during the season and have a fairly rigid schedules between editing, shooting, appointments and a host of other duties. She may have done the book quickly because she has other projects coming right away. To add this extra work to what could easily double the hours on this project into that mix, may just not be possible at this time of year.</p>

<p>The other option you suggested was colour retouching. Colour retouching is possible but never "perfect" and extremely costly for the client. If it doesn't look right (skin tones are tough to change and keep "real") then the retouching time was a waste. It is also time consuming to go over each shot since your wife will be in most, if not all the shots and to retouch some and not all would look very odd. IE white face in some shots and tanned in others. Remember that the photographer can't warm the entire image, just her face, separate from the white dress and other subjects in a given shot. In some cases this could take 15 minutes, in others, maybe an hour. There is no way to "bulk edit" this and each shot would be done one at a time. Depending on the number of shots to retouch, you could be easily looking at a 4 figure editing cost that your wife might not even like. </p>

<p>All I could offer is that at this stage, where the editing, shooting and book design have been done to the point where the book is ready to be printed is see if the photographer has even the time available and then get a quote on how much they would charge to do this work. Then get the costs out of the makeup person and before you schedule a reshoot.</p>

<p>Would I do a reshoot? Yes but to be honest with <em>great reluctance</em> and the fees would be heavy. It's not just the time to shoot, it's recreation of the shots to match the settings and light as closely as possible, the editing to make them match the earlier work and then going over the book design again.</p>

[shawn_mertz]

<p>I know you are trying to save some your wife some anguish, but maybe if does does the talking, the photographer will understand better. </p>

[robertbanks]

You could re-shoot with another photographer

[matthew_baker5]

<blockquote>

<p>To what end? If you are getting dressed and made up as you were on wedding day, then the point is a reshoot, no?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>But if we have a scheduled bridal shoot and simply deside to be dressed in our wedding attire, she is not being asked to take anymore shots than normal, right? we simply may need to schedule extra time to change during the shoot, which we would compensate for any overages on time. Then she could use the bridal shot prints of us in our wedding attire as if it were the wedding day. I appologize if this seems unreasonable, ive never been married so i dont know how most of this works.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>With all due respect, your wife has no issue with the photographer but should only be upset with the makeup person and be going back to her to fix this issue.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>agreed with who caused it, but the effect is an expensive wedding book which will only be unsatisfactory for her. Compensation for the makeup miss hap aside, what matters is the book.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The other issue is the time of year. Most active photographers are hardly getting any sleep during the season and have a fairly rigid schedules between editing, shooting, appointments and a host of other duties. She may have done the book quickly because she has other projects coming right away. To add this extra work to what could easily double the hours on this project into that mix, may just not be possible at this time of year.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Very good points which WERE offered as reasons for there reluctance. But an upset bride has no room for "reasoning" or "understanding". Hence why i wanted advice from you guys- which is greatly appreciated.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Depending on the number of shots to retouch, you could be easily looking at a 4 figure editing cost that your wife might not even like.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>the book is 40 pages, some of which the photo will take up both pages.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>. It's not just the time to shoot, it's recreation of the shots to match the settings and light as closely as possible, the editing to make them match the earlier work and then going over the book design again.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Makes sense... im begining to understand the photogs point of view. Hopefully some retouching can be done without alot of time consumption- even if it means REASONABLE additional fees... those books are keepsakes...<br>

Thanks for the post- very informative and concise!</p>

 

[matthew_baker5]

<blockquote>I know you are trying to save some your wife some anguish, but maybe if does does the talking, the photographer will understand better.</blockquote>

<p>Trust me, i would rather her take coare of it, but she tends to let emotions overtake a more rational dialogue.</p>

[matthew_baker5]

<blockquote>

<p>You could re-shoot with another photographer.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>but then the photos wouldnt make it into the book...</p>

[personalphotos]

<p>OK, so that I understand this, you have an "after wedding day" bridal session already scheduled? I fully get your side of this story and understand why you are looking for advice. Beside my earlier post, I'm not sure what more we can offer. What I am trying to say is, there will be costs, you need to either be prepared to cover these or get them from the makeup person.</p>

<p>Oh and using a different photographer? Bad idea on so many levels. One would be shooting styles will never match and you have the same problem, just different.</p>

<p>Matt at this point, I would suggest you make an appointment to meet with the photographer before this next session, when you can and if they have the time to see what might be possible. If something can even be worked out, then figure out the finances.</p>

<p>Just to clarify a point, many people have this impression that Photoshop is this magic 1 button fix all. I'm not saying you feel this way but it certainly isn't that at all. Photoshop is really a drawing program. In retouching, you are drawing and colouring in between lines you have selected.</p>

<p>Lets look at an example in very basic terms. Your wife is wearing a white dress that has some lace or at the least, a slightly uneven edge across her chest against the skin. Then there are the areas like eyebrows, eyes, mouth, stray hair and hairline etc. What you do to change the colour of the skin is 'select' the current colour tone of the skin. Then you basically draw around each feature you don't want to change, only selecting the areas you need to adjust. This is the part that takes so much time and often has to be done at the pixel level to get right. Then you have to make the colour changes. Plus you can only "push" the colour so much because you get halos and outlines around the edges of the selected region if the shifts are too great. Those can be fixed, but they are time consuming as well. Add to the fact that some images already have the right colour as you stated earlier. These have to match the retouched ones. Plus skin tone is not one colour. There will be differences where skin has a redder look and a paler look. Literally hundreds of different colour values. That can be really tricky to get the near exact match. Then you have to repeat the process for each photo.</p>

[steve m smith]

<p>If you are paying the photographer and already have another session booked, it should be conducted the way <em>you</em> want it, not the photographer. The customer is always right*.</p>

<p><em>(* customer may not always be right!).</em></p>

[matthew_baker5]

<p>yes, that is correct. We have had a scheduled shoot which occurs after the wedding. im thinking that the situation will require some compromise. I may suggest to my wife that one or two or three of her favorite photos can be retouched (assuming its possible and agreed upon for a fee) and then maybe see if the photog can use different filters on other pictures we like but have obvious make up discrepencies (i.e sepia or black and white). Would that be possible or is a filter required during the actual shoot (i have 0 photo knowledge).<br>

In any case i just hope compromises can bring us to an agreeable middle ground.<br>

you truly have helped alot everyone (especially Mr. Zack!) thanks for taking the time!</p>

[personalphotos]

<p>Matthew, Yes you can add a "filter" digitally after the shot is taken. In fact in the film days, photographers carried a bag of filters for various effects. Today, they only carry a few select filters that can not be reproduced digitally.</p>

<p>So a photo could have a 'warming' filter added digitally or black and white, sepia etc. Just remember that these are "global" changes that will change the entire picture, not just parts of it. </p>

<p>You'll have to negotiate the rest with the parties involved. good luck and I hope it works out.</p>

[john_deerfield]

<p>Yes, it's a pickle. Have you received any prints from the photographer? Have you seen the album design? Do you have any say in the album design? Was the design to include images from the bridal session? Could you post a sample image? There are just so many factors. We don't know what you paid for your package and what was included in the package. This information may or may not matter. From the information presented, the only new work is re-doing parts of an already designed album. And for me, I would probably just charge my hourly rate (and for perspective, I am worth at least as much per hour as my mechanic or plumber, most of which didn't even buy their own tools). However, the real issue is going to be in the emotions. Your wife isn't happy. Who <em>really</em> wants to take on an unhappy bride/wife? The photographer has designed the album. I know when my wife designs an album she is married to it. When a client wants a change it is almost sacrilegious, how can anyone want to change the perfection of art she has created? And that is the real issue: what happens when an immoveable object meets an irresistible force? Whatever happens ain't goin' be pretty. So, I might ask the photographer to simply hold off on doing anything more with the album. Put it on hold. Go forward with the Bridal shoot as the redo. If extra time is involved, then the photographer should charge accordingly. At this point, the only explanation needed is that you want some pictures in more appropriate make up. Keep the album out of the equation. Once the shoot is complete, you will have new images. Who is to say that there won't be something your wife won't like about these images? At which point the original album may be the lesser of two evils. Or, your wife does like these images. And if you wife likes them, the photographer will like them as well. Now it becomes a matter of renegotiating the album. So my advice is to let both parties cool down and breathe (now don't <em>tell</em> both parties to cool down and breathe. Since you are a newlywed you might not now this so I thought I would point it out!). Take it one step at a time. Lets do the shoot. How did that turn out? Now, can we use this new shoot in the album? Baby steps.</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>Bad idea on so many levels. One would be shooting styles will never match and you have the same problem, just different.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Second shooters, which are frequently used, don't always shoot in the same style. This doesn't seem to be an inherent problem in having a cohesive results. Since the bride seems to seek only certain things shot, rather then the flow of the whole wedding, there is room for a different styles for different things. Variety can be an asset.</p>

[personalphotos]

<p>John H, If I was on either side of this (hired for the wedding or asked to be hired after) I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole. There's a huge difference between having a team hired for a wedding vs hiring a different shooter afterwards. All this will do is totally complicate the situation and make things worse.</p>

<p>John Deerfield, Excellent advice.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>1. When did you see the photos the photographer produced? Do they look bad re the face?</p>

<p>2. Do you get to approve the album? Have you seen a mock up of the album? If so, don't approve it to go forward until you have determined what to do. I would make no decisions until I actually see the images as they will appear.</p>

<p>3. If you don't get to approve the album, put it in writing to the photographer that you do not want her to produce the album until this issue has been resolved. If I were the photographer, and my client expressed the same concerns, I would be trying to help, not push the album through, brushing aside any client concerns, even though the problem was not my fault. That is poor customer service.</p>

<p>4. If the photographer uses Lightroom for processing, many times the adjustment brush can be used to successfully change the skin color tone and density of a person--much more successfully than with Photoshop.</p>

[carbon_dragon]

I'm not a professional, nor have I been married and hired a photographer. However, it seems to me that if the

photographer inadvertantly lost some of the pictures, say due to a catastrophic equipment malfunction, he would hope the

couple would be prepared to be reasonable to help mitigate the damage -- not happy, but reasonable. So doesn't he have

an obligation to do the same? If that meant the couple had to wait a little till his schedule was open, that might be doable.

 

 

And wouldn't he really rather a story be out there about how reasonable he was and how grateful the couple was rather

than how he ruined their wedding day album? I'll bet the bride could do a serious amount of damage to the photographer

relaying this story to her friends. You tell me, is it really worth it to the photographer not to be at least somewhat

accommodating?

 

 

And one last thing. If the bride's makeup was really bad, bad enough to show up in the photos (and as far as I can tell, we don't really know that yet) shouldn't the photographer have noticed? After all, it's his job to make sure everything is right. So I don't see how he can duck 100% of the blame here if the problem is serious.

[personalphotos]

<p>David,</p>

<blockquote>

<p>After all, it's his job to make sure <strong>everything</strong> is right.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Of course it isn't. Let's look at this from another angle. <br>

Photographer: [The bride has been sitting with the markup artist for a hour and looking in the mirror before the shooting started.] "bride, your makeup looks very white. Is that how you like it? [remember that this is a stressful day with a tight schedule].<br>

Bride: "What do you mean? I hired xxx who knows what she's doing."<br>

Photographer: "oh ok, I just though it was whiter than your arms and neck and wanted to make sure you were happy with it"<br>

Bride: " You think I look bad? We don't have time to redo this and you are not a makeup person anyway. Just take pictures please."</p>

<p>Now the relationship is going south in a hurry and that's the last thing the photographer wants. Now change makeup to "you look fat in that wedding dress". or "those shoes don't match the wedding dress at all". It's the same thing. Imagine how the relationship is now and the wedding hasn't even started yet. </p>

<p>The photographer is not the wedding coordinator. It's not their job to correct what they may perceive as mistakes. They have 2 jobs only on wedding day. To capture photos in a technically proficient and creative way and to capture the day and it's emotions as it unfolds. They are there to document, not to direct and change the choices the bride has made, especially with her other vendors. </p>

<p>Now that being said, if the bride is about to walk in a patch of flowers full of bees, it's their job to warn them they might get stung. </p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>One question, have both of you seen a finished print, or is the concern about the makeup from her seeing herself in a mirror at the wedding? </p>

[carbon_dragon]

You have a point, but not enough of one. Yes, no doubt brides are emotional, but I'm certain a more diplomatic way of

explaining this might be done. Diplomacy is, I imagine, a prime skill of a wedding photographer. Excuse me mam,

sometimes women look a little paler on photographic images than they might in real life. Might I recommend a little more

color in your face so you look natural in the pictures?

[ryanmontgomery]

<p>If you have only viewed the images on your computer your monitor may be well off track as far as colour etc. Most professionals spend quite a bit of money on their monitors and calibrate it to make sure the colours are as close to reality as possible.<br>

Don't panic until you see a print or the images on the photographers computer, the chances are that the photographer has already fixed any problem and just put it down to white balance.<br>

It's in the best interests of all that the album looks fantastic, trust in the professional you have hired and have a sit down with her.</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>There's a huge difference between having a team hired for a wedding vs hiring a different shooter afterwards.<br /><br /></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Obviously.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>All this will do is totally complicate the situation and make things worse.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The comment was about your comment of style differences being a reason not to have a second shoot. That's what I responded to. That it isn't necessarily so. Plus, even if unlikely, the first photographer may be willing to cooperate. Its not going to kill anyone to ask. Creative solutions may need to be tried here.<br /> <br /><br /><br /></p>