Pentax K-30

Mike Howard · May 16, 2012

Discussion is heating up on the Pentax forums. Leaks from French Pentax forum and Amazon UK. "Sources" say it will be officially announced next week.

http://www.pentaxforums.com/news/pentax-k30-new-intro-level-dslr.html

If this is the new entry level, it will be interesting to see the K-5 replacement. EDIT: I guess it should be the K30...

patrickwells · May 16, 2012

I hope it's true. I am ready to step up from my DL. This might be a good one to move to.

jeremy_corbin · May 16, 2012

If the K30 is weather sealed and awesome-looking it would certainly be a different class of Entry Level than we've seen previously. Perhaps the K5 replacement would also raise the stakes on the class system as well.

I love my K10, but I admit that the only thing that I find lacking is the ability to fine-tune multiple lenses. That's it: It does everything else I need. I'm tempted by the K5, just like I was the K7, but I know that if I wait long enough I could buy a used K7/5 off one of you guys when you upgrade! ;-)

miserere_mei · May 16, 2012

This is a good move by Pentax. Maybe the best move they've made in the last 3 years.

Jeremiah, this camera would seem to be the spiritual successor of the K200D—loved by many, followed up with nothing, because that's how Pentax does things.

wolf_weber · May 17, 2012

Looks authentic... Weather sealed with dual battery alimentation for use in "extreme climate conditions"... No wonder K-5 prices are slipping. USA body only for as little as 930,- Makes me itch all right. But the lenses, where are the lenses..? The system is just not complete enough. Would be nice to get some updates as to the "promises, promises"...

MattB.Net · May 17, 2012

It looks like a great travel body. Small-ish, sealed, can use AA's. It's everything I was hoping the K-x would be.

laur1 · May 17, 2012

This is a good move by Pentax. Maybe the best move they've made in the last 3 years.

</blockquote>

I don't think it matters any more. Making good moves into a market that is fading is a wrong move.

The system is just not complete enough.

</blockquote>

That is one problem. The other is the lack of a business plan.

Up to now, Pentax has committed to APS-C DSLRs, but their lenses have not really capitalized on the smaller sensor size. After years and years of APS-C cameras (from everyone, not just Pentax), we are in the ironic situation where the MFT format has a better dedicated lens lineup than any APS-C system out there. The APS-C format has been sidelined again in the digital era because of the FF upgrade alternative - NEX/NX systems may be able to finally deliver on its promise, but even those systems are starting from behind (and from scratch). With the market now adopting MILCs, just churning out more SLRs is a losing strategy, no matter how nice they are compared to previous ones. Even without MILCs in the picture, Canon and Nikon have strengthened their entry level offerings since the K10D ruled over them, so this market has only become tougher for Pentax. What they should do is offer something different and appealing to new customers. Instead, they are doing more of the same or just provide products appealing to existing customers. I do not see how this can work for them. It's rather disappointing, as I expected Ricoh to provide them with better focus.

rparmar · May 17, 2012

AFAIK this is mostly similar to the K-5 with a more of an adolescent styling. It'll likely be missing a few features to separate it from the top of the line, though it does have two control dials, which is a big plus. In the meantime it costs more than any previous entry-level Pentax camera.

So, how is this a good move for Pentax? It's just more of the same, slightly warmed over. A real Canon sort of move.

lauren_macintosh · May 18, 2012

Some of the stuff coming out now could have been in the pipe line already,and to change really quickly could be a great down fall of any company:

r.t. dowling · May 18, 2012

I have to say I'm a little surprised by the physical appearance. To me, it looks chunkier/fatter/less-sleek than Pentax's entry/mid DSLRs of the past. If someone had put black tape over the Pentax name and showed me the photos, I would've guessed Canon or Sony.

It's too bad that they couldn't figure out a way to do something really new/different/innovative with it.

I'm sure it will take fantastic pictures, though.

r.t. dowling · May 18, 2012

P.S. I'm very happy that they resisted the urge to use the Sony 24MP sensor.

andrewg_ny · May 18, 2012

A bunch of Debbie Downers here -- I don't see what's not to like about this. We were all expecting a K-r replacement, and it appears to have weather sealing, dual e-dials, 100% viewfinder, and the good 16mp sensor.

Like K-x, K-r, etc. and other current mid-range models, there's probably no top-panel LCD. Also frame rate has dropped, probably because it's similar processing power to K-r applied to higher pixel count.

Would like to see if it's pentaprism or pentamirror, if there's an available grip, and what other economies or crippling Pentax may have included.

I don't think this is anything like Canon. I honestly can't tell the difference between the last few xxxD (Rebel) models. This appears to be an all new body with features previously unavailable at this price level. Also appears to be pretty compact but should retain traditional SLR advantages of good ergonomics and handling even with larger lenses -- a weak area for its mid-range CSC competition (G3, Nex5, etc.)

This new model doesn't seem like it should be at all controversial (unlike K-01 or Q), why does every Pentax announcement post need 'sinking ship responses'? I'm sure there are a few lenses or accessories we all wish Pentax would make...but Pentax absolutely HAS to put out refreshed body models every 1-2 years or they will ACTUALLY be dead.

mountainvisions · May 18, 2012

The biggest complaint I have with the K-01, other than it's not a mirrorless K-5, is that it's not a mirrorless K-5.

Included in that is the lack of sealing.

If Pentax could bring sealing and professional controls to a true entry level camera, it would have the upper hand (in value) again. Nikon and Canon were reluctant to seal sub $6000 cameras, they finally did, though not to the level of the Pentax models. Putting K-5 level sealing in a K-30 would definitely be a good move.

Remember also, Pentax is the only brand with weatherproof kit lenses. I think people might forget this little thing. I'm actually planning to finally buy a weather sealed kit lens this year. While it's not going to quite fill my quality needs, it will give me piece of mind when using my camera in challenging conditions and not wanting to mess with lens changes or wiping my gear thoroughly following being used in the rain.

I still think, because Pentax doesn't cater to the professional market, that it has the upper hand in a lot of regards. Nikon and Canon CANNOT put upper end features in mid and lower tier cameras, or they would not make a profit. Pentax isn't trying to keep it's pro model prices overly inflated, so it can make a scaled down K-5, and probably make more of a profit from that camera than the K-5 without killing K-5 sales. I bet both cameras also share components, making scaling much easier to achieve.

r.t. dowling · May 18, 2012

Minor correction: Pentax no longer has a monopoly on weather sealed kit lenses. The 12-50 kit lens that debuted with the Olympus OM-D E-M5 is weather sealed.

andrewg_ny · May 18, 2012

"Minor correction: Pentax no longer has a monopoly on weather sealed kit lenses. The 12-50 kit lens that debuted with the Olympus OM-D E-M5 is weather sealed."

</blockquote>

I don't think that Oly lens qualifies as "kit lens" by the common definition -- it's really a midrange std zoom -- a $500 lens with 24-100-equiv, sort of Oly's m4/3 equivalent to the Pentax DA 18-135 WR or DA 17-70/4. It adds $300 to the price of a kit, while Pentax adds their sealed kit lens for only $150 over the body-only cost. The real "kit lens" adds only $100, and is 14-42/3.5-5.6.

Canon sells 5D kits including the WR EF 24-105/4L IS but I don't think most people would call that a "kit lens" either.

My biggest complaint with K-01 is that I think ergonomics were sacrificed for aesthetic reasons -- putting the top-panel buttons in a line like that sucks. #2 is no EVF facility (I have same complaint for the Q). I am in the minority that thinks K-01 looks pretty cool, but those good looks wouldn't have been spoiled by arranging the buttons in places where your fingers fall (or can reach) more naturally.

K30 appears to be roughly a fixed-rear-LCD D5100 or Canon 600D plus weather sealing, a second e-dial, better viewfinder, AA capability, plus in-body AF motor & stabilization. It's cheaper and more compact than a 60D, while adding weather-sealing and AA capability.

laur1 · May 18, 2012

The problem that I see is that entry level users don't really care much about WR. With entry level cameras in the $500-$600, an $800+ camera won't be very appealing no matter how well it is weather sealed. Then there are the issues of a kit lens with mediocre optics, not so great AF with it, metering issues, etc. Bottom line - this is not really priced as an entry level camera, but as a mid level camera. Which is ok, but where is the entry level offer from Pentax? The K-01 is also over $800. What do they offer under $600 to match the NEX-F3 or the E-PM1?

andrewg_ny · May 18, 2012

"What do they offer under $600 to match the NEX-F3 or the E-PM1"

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Or perhaps a more direct competitor, the Nikon D3200.

Guess that's Pentax Q -- now $500 with standard prime lens. I don't think even Pentax believes this though. Could always buy a discontinued model like K-x or K-r, new examples are still available. But your point is valid -- this is more of a step-up camera like a D5100. There's definitely room below for a budget-friendly starter model.

Of course, we don't know what the street price will be -- or what the K-01's street price will be by the time K30 appears.

Or Pentax might be ceding this market -- they may think that the bottom of the SLR market is being eaten up by CSC's and that it's becoming increasingly difficult to produce something appealing to this customer -- who values smallness highly and is unlikely to move beyond 2-3 relatively inexpensive lenses. SLR is at a disadvantage in terms of cost of materials and production vs. these models that don't need to include a viewfinder or mirror or additional phase-detect AF sensors. I think it might be a mistake for Pentax to abandon this user though because some portion of them will become enthusiasts and eventually move up-market. Possibly Pentax expects the K-01 and successors to become that entry level as its price drops (or cost savings are built into successors (certainly K-01's nice build doesn't have to be quite that nice).

You're right that a lot of users (even more advanced) don't care about WR, or not as much as they care about other things (like $50 savings if you get the non-WR kit lens). I think Pentax sees it as something they can build in as value-added, cater to the niche for those who do consider it of value. It's hard to really beat big competitors when the technology is already so well-refined, when many of these parts are being purchased from the same parts bins, and you have less volume & marketing muscle behind it. So they at least do something a little different, present a different flavor of value proposition that should appeal to at least some new customers.

rparmar · May 18, 2012

Andrew Gilchrist wrote:

A bunch of Debbie Downers here -- I don't see what's not to like about this.

</blockquote>

Female names as epithets are a common way for men to out-macho each other. It's an obvious patriarchal gambit. Could you maybe stick to arguing the facts instead?

I don't think this is anything like Canon. I honestly can't tell the difference between the last few xxxD (Rebel) models.

</blockquote>

And I can't tell the difference between this and the last few Pentax SLR models. Unless you mean the "sporty" styling. Just to let you know: that's not a real difference; it's a sucker play. Where's the innovation?

I don't think that Oly lens qualifies as "kit lens" by the common definition.

</blockquote>

It's provided with the body as a retail kit. That is the definition of a "kit lens". The Olympus 12-50mm qualifies. Whether you like it or not, Olympus has the jump on Pentax, with a laundry list of feature improvements that Pentax is not even considering, let alone implementing. All in a more compact, lighter, weather-sealed package. Attempts to redefine terms to escape this conclusion are of limited utility.

I would really like Pentax to play ball, since I have invested significantly in their system . But any advantages they once had as a brand have been fast eroded. And I for one am not going to play kissy-kissy every time they come out with a slightly warmed over more expensive option we are somehow supposed to want to buy. I never cuddled up to Nikon and Canon for that strategy and I never agreed with the profusion of near-identical Olympus and Panasonic models either. I see no reason to exempt Pentax from the same criticism.

Rampant consumerist cheerleaders are welcome to disagree.

mountainvisions · May 18, 2012

R.T.,

Thanks for the update, I probably did know that, but I certainly didn't think about it. While a lot of people on these forums pine for a Pentax full frame camera, a 4/3 camera just doesn't even compete in quality to APS-C.

So while Olympus might have a budget lens and camera (and I like OM-D, I think it's a good move, and a camera I would consider), I think it sacrifices much to much in terms of IQ to size to cost.

In the end, the camera is still about the quality of images it can produce. The challenge is finding a camera/system that fits your own needs and still produces the level of quality you need. I don't believe M4/3 is capable of that.

The OM-D intrigues me, but like the other cameras with tiny sensors, I'm not sure it would suit my needs.

mountainvisions · May 18, 2012

Robin, I have to agree with Andrew on this.

A "kit" lens is a base model lens priced to go a long with a base model camera. Pentax could start selling the K-30 with the 16-50 f/2.8 as a package, but I'm not sure any of us with consider that the kit lens.

I don't think Oly has a leg up on Pentax, I think Oly painted itself into a corner and is making the most out of the sudden resurgence of small cameras. Before M4/3s it was looking like Oly was going out of business. At some point the market will saturate, and people will come back to the core of what a camera system is...quality of images.

Well, that is my opinion, I am constantly shown that my faith in human intelligence is vastly over rated. I actually ask my brother for his opinion now, because I realize he deals with far more stupid people than myself on a daily basis. My isolation from stupidity has cost me in my ability to understand the true dynamics of humanity at it's most average.

Sorry, but Oly is a double amputee when it comes to image quality. There is only so much you can do with that little sensor.

peter_russell4 · May 18, 2012

Looks like a very nice camera. I have already recommended it to a couple of friends who were Pentax users and now looking to get a DSLR. Good incremental upgrade to the K-x, K-r.

laur1 · May 18, 2012

I think it might be a mistake for Pentax to abandon this user though because some portion of them will become enthusiasts and eventually move up-market.

</blockquote>

Yes, but note that up-market will stop meaning "SLR". Right now, MILC producers have targeted P&S upgraders because they felt they are easier to target to. But as they wake up to the demand for high end MILC cameras, we will see more models (next to XPro1 and OM-D). The "up-market" that SLR makers think they are catering to will shrink fast over the next few years.

It's hard to really beat big competitors when the technology is already so well-refined, when many of these parts are being purchased from the same parts bins, and you have less volume & marketing muscle behind it.

</blockquote>

The market is changing. SLRs may be well defined but they are in decline. This was the perfect time for Pentax to provide a product that leveraged their ability to build cameras that handle well and benefit of good optics. That window of opportunity is closing. To me, Pentax now looks like the player that is warming up on the sidelines, just as the game is about to end.

So they at least do something a little different, present a different flavor of value proposition that should appeal to at least some new customers.

</blockquote>

A different product is much easier to recognize than a different flavor of value proposition - I am not sure how they are planning to market that.

There is only so much you can do with that little sensor.

</blockquote>

There is as much as you could do with the K-7 and even better with the OM-D. That will be good enough for many people. The APS-C format may survive in its MILC incarnations, but I don't know if it will survive in SLR format.

mountainvisions · May 19, 2012

There is as much as you could do with the K-7 and even better with the OM-D. That will be good enough for many people. The APS-C format may survive in its MILC incarnations, but I don't know if it will survive in SLR format.

</blockquote>

Actually, the K-7 doesn't really give up much to the larger sensored cameras (full frame). In the end, it's always boiled down to a single stop. If that stop is important to you, then you need full frame. If it isn't, then it's up to you.

The gap between the M4/3s and full frame is gigantic. The gap between the K-5 and full frame is pretty marginal. Is there a gap? Absolutely, but it's just not enough to declare death. And until full frame drops down to APS-C pricing, I'm not convinced that the cost to quality ratio is a reasonable cost. You are still looking at $1000-2000 price difference...all for a single stop! If APS-C is going to die, they need to produce a $1500 K-5 like camera with a 24x36 sensor, at that point, I completely agree, APS-C will probably be dead.

The only format I see moving to a very niche market is digital medium format. Very few people need that sort of resolution, and even the ones that might can sometimes get by with a full frame camera.

laur1 · May 19, 2012

The gap between the M4/3s and full frame is gigantic. The gap between the K-5 and full frame is pretty marginal.

</blockquote>

Are you kidding? The gap is approximately one stop both sides, except it's a bit less than a stop on MFT side and a bit more than one stop on FF side. Have a look at dxomark high ISO scores which tell you how much you can push the ISO before IQ falls behind a set bar:

For MFT, GH2 scores 655

For APS-C, K-5 scores 1162 (less than a stop difference from GH2). K-7 and K20D both score less than the GH2: 536 and 639.

For FF, D800 scores 2853 (more than a stop difference from K-5).

The OM-D has not been tested yet, but all reports indicate better performance than any other MFT sensor.

The gap between MFT and APS-C is much smaller than that between APS-C and FF. MFT already outperforms some APS-C sensors that we were happy with.

But it doesn't end here. APS-C doesn't have much to show in terms of lenses compared to FF, but that is not the case with MFT where you already have available f/0.95 lenses and f/2 legacy zooms. That less of a stop difference gap is compensated by faster lenses and better optical performance even in slow lenses. Check the dxomark scores for lenses. The best performing Pentax lens scores 15 (DA 35/2.4); the DA 70 Limited scores 14 and the DA 15 Limited scores 10. By comparison, the Zuiko 45/1.9 scores 17 and the 12/2.0 scores 19 (these have similar applications as the DA 70 and DA 15 Pentax Limiteds).

I can tell you from direct experience that the Zuiko 14-42 kit lens is a better lens than the DA 18-55 kit lens and a regular customer buying a basic Olympus kit will be better served by it than by the purchase of the basic Pentax kit.

The APS-C format got the short stick again. Canon and Nikon didn't invest in it because they used it as the carrot pulling people to FF. And Pentax had good intentions but never managed to deliver on them. What is left is to start from scratch with systems like the Xpro1/NEX/NX which are finally building lenses for the APS-C format without second thoughts of covering a FF sensor and without the baggage of a 35mm camera mount. But they are starting from behind and none can match the lens lineup of the MFT system. That gap will take some years to fill.

wolf_weber · May 19, 2012

Several European photo mags online seem to agree that the K30 launch announcement will be made by coming Monday afternoon. The camera ..."will start shipping on June 25, 2012 in the UK. The same is likely to apply in other countries. K30 body-only will be priced at $799-$849. ... This would make sense, still being much cheaper than the upcoming Pentax flagship DSLR (at launch)."...No guarantees from The House.

Notice: ..."upcoming Pentax flagship DSLR"... Now, should they also announce release dates for a few previously announced lenses, especially the 1.4x Teleconverter I just might jump back on board.

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Pentax K-30

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