Difficult Client - how to respond?

[steph_w]

<p>Hi there,<br /> I am trying to deal with a rather difficult wedding photography client, and need some help in preparing my response.<br /> After receiving her DVD images, my client sent me an email requesting that I a) send her coloured versions of the black and white images I sent her (there were perhaps 8 b&w images) b) that I send her the RAW files for all images.<br /> I of course, responded to her email explaining that I could send her non-black and white versions of the requested images but that I couldn't send her RAW files. She then responded with an ubrupt email demanding the images "as they were taken on the day" because they like the "original colours".<br /> It was explained to the couple in our consultation and in the contract that I have a particular style of photography, and they had seen my portfolio. I am obviously not even considering sending her unedited files.<br /> How should I respond to my client? Part of me wants to send a stern email enlightening the bride as to the photographer's role, and how unrealistic her expectations are, but perhaps that is too harsh. <br /> How would you word an email to a rude, difficult client?</p>

<p> </p>

[picturesque]

<p>1. Does she even know what RAW files are and if she did, can she edit them herself?</p>

<p>2. Why would she like the "original colours"? Is your processing style non-saturated?</p>

<p>3. If she saw your portfolio, which is filled with examples of your processing style, then I would just say that the images you gave her use the same processing style as she saw, you didn't promise her anything else, and you do not include RAW files in client image sets--ever.</p>

<p>4. Personally, I have no problem giving clients RAW files IF they know what to do with them. But that's me.</p>

<p>5. I would call rather than e-mail. When you have 'bad news' to convey, it is always better to actually talk.</p>

<p>6. Put a clause in your contract regarding RAW files.</p>

[frank_skomial]

<p>The best is when you do not surprise your clients, and deliver exactly what they expect.</p>

<p>A wedding is a colorful event, and sending black and white pictures possibly reminded more of a funeral type event. Seems that they did not want black and white photos. Even if you had some black and white photos in your portfolio that they had looked at, it does not mean that they approved or selected, unless you made this in your contract. Your contract should state if to deliver black and white and color, and more or less how many of each type. </p>

<p>If you shoot only RAW, or both RAW and JPG, it s your preference, and the cilent does not neet to know, as long as you deliver what was in your conract. If delivery of original form of the photo files was in the contract, then you know what to do.</p>

<p>If you told them that you shoot only RAW, and deliver pictures of lesser then expected quality (...black and white that is), then their request for return of all RAW images is very much reasonable. Seems that they possibly already lost trust in your ability to deliver what they expected, and most likely will go with those RAW files to another photographer that they could possibly trust more.</p>

<p><strong>This is not a difficult client</strong>. The situation was created by you, and now you need to deal with it. The best is to deliver what they expect. If RAW was part of this contract, or you were bragging about shooting RAW, then you need to deliver the RAW files.</p>

[fotografz]

<p>That is a lot of assumptions to make Frank ...</p>

<p>Hmmm, the client states that they like the original colors ... how do they know what the original RAW color versions look like if they don't have the RAW files yet?</p>

<p>Anyway .... cool down Steph.</p>

<p>Just because they want the color versions of the B&Ws you gave them doesn't mean they hated the B&W, or think it's of "lesser quality", or is funeral like.</p>

<p>They just want the color. Happens to me all the time unless a client specifically requests mostly B&W work. So now when I do a B&W, I leave the color version in the Library with it. When you do a B&W conversion, just save it as a copy ... no big deal.</p>

<p>I occasionally am asked if I'll release the RAW files, and will IF the client knows what to do with them (other photographers, designers, art directors, etc.) ... to others I explain I don't release RAW files because I often shoot to retain Dynamic Range and in certain lighting circumstances some of the images may look under-exposed and need White Balance corrections to the uninitiated eye. <br>

<br>

What we do NOT know is what you did to their RAW files, and whether they are like the samples that sold them on you.</p>

<p>If you state that you provide RAW files in your contract, then just do it. If not, tell them the RAW files are not part of the contracted effort, they are your copyrighted work, and if they want basically corrected DNG RAW files (exposure and WB adjustments with no other manipulation), tell them how much it will cost to do that.</p>

<p>People always want more than they paid for and sometimes get rude and pushy to get it. Stay calm, and stick to what you contracted for if you want ... or give it to them with a smile if it doesn't matter to you.</p>

<p>-Marc</p>

<p> </p>

[daverhaas]

<p>Even though I shoot in Raw, the term raw is never raised with clients (unless they ask) nor is it in my contract. In my contract it specifies that the client will receive JPG files which are print ready. Period. I've had one client ask for Tiff files as opposed to JPG and have never had a client ask for the raw files. </p>

<p>As for your situation -</p>

<p>Weddings and wedding photos tend to get everyone's nerves up a notch or 4. While you may have responded politely and to you done nothing to raise the bride's ire - she is now unhappy with you since you declined her request for unedited files. </p>

<p>It appears to me, that upon seeing your photos, perhaps compared with some which where shot by friends / relatives, the couple is no longer in love with your editing style. Unless the client is a photographer or knows something about photography - chances are they don't know the difference between RAW and JPG files - they know about the difference between edited and unedited and are just using the word RAW to indicate unedited. </p>

<p>So my recommendation is as follows: </p>

<p>Call her - don't e-mail. Apologize for upsetting her - and ask if she really wants the raw files or just the files (in any format) without your standard edits applied. Chances are that she doesn't really care about the extension on the files - instead she wants to see the unaltered colors. </p>

<p>No matter which file type she wants - I would at this point, politely agree to send her a dvd with the files - Again for some reason, which none of us can be sure of, she has decided that she no longer likes your style of edits, or thinks that you perhaps over applied edits to some or all of the photos. </p>

<p>Brides are human too - and sometimes they change their mind. Even if she saw your portfolio full of images in the style you delivered, she may have had other expectations - may be it was something you said, maybe it was something you didn't say. Again - at this point she is upset, because something, in her mind, is not right with the colors on the photos you delivered. </p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[steve m smith]

<p>If you are happy with the quality of the RAW files then I think I would just send them to get rid of the problem. It's not as if keeping them to is any of further value to you</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>It was explained to the couple in our consultation and in the contract that I have a particular style of photography, and they had seen my portfolio.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br />This is a pretty vague description but may be enough to amount to substantial performance which means legally sufficient. More info would be needed. If there is no harm that will occur, Steve's suggestion may be suitable. Are you honestly protecting yourself from real harm or just standing your ground wanting to write terse letters?</p>

<p>For future reference, I like David's approach. No direct mention of what the client does not get but useful for that purpose nevertheless. Its easier to say no when you can point to exact language showing they got what they bargained for.</p>

<p> </p>

[Dave Gardner]

<p>I agree with what Steve S and John H is saying. I have basically what they said stated in my contract. I do go one step further in that the client have reprint rights....but can only change the photo in size only. They can not manipulate the photo in any way other then size.</p>

<p>I had an incident where a client Photoshopped an image to were it looked like something from Salvatore Dalli(sp)....posted it and gave me credit. After that i changed my contract...i did not want false representation of my work. </p>

[john_deerfield]

<p>In terms of whether to provide Raw files there are two philosophies: 1) you are a retail business and as such any product should have a price. Price it high enough and very few want it. Price it lower and it is simply more money that you didn't have before with very little additional work. 2) you are an artist and I spend a great deal of time creating my art from the Raw materials (pun intended!) and only deliver the finished product.</p>

<p>As to how to respond, I don't think we have enough info. First, I would want to see a few examples of what was delivered to get a better idea of the bride's position. And perhaps a link to your site showing what a client might see. I would also want to get to the bottom of the complaint. The bride doesn't like the color of the images delivered... what does that <em>really</em> mean? Is it because of your style or actions in post-processing? Is it because the bride has a 10-year old CRT that doesn't have any brightness/color left in it (ie, my mother-in-laws old monitor). Is is because of a print she got back or a friend or relative saying these should be better? Again, not enough info.</p>

<p>Several years back we had a bride that was tickled when we delivered her images. Two weeks later, she was very, very upset about the images. The sister apparently felt there should have been more formals (we literally had 10-minutes in the church for church formals but went to a park afterwards), less detail shots etc. The kicker was the sister was getting married in a few months yet they had hired another photographer. At our end, we made a simple coffee table album to highlight our work/images and give the bride something she could be proud to show off. But she was still upset. Flash forward to after the sister's wedding and I get a call from my bride apologizing about how upset and out-of-hand the situation had gotten. Her sister's images were terrible and they wanted to know if I could possibly re-edit them. I politely declined. Sometimes there just aren't any good answers right away.</p>

[david_rosenthal1]

<p>John Deerfield gets an "A", for he is the only poster to hit the nail on the head!</p>

<p>If you're going to bitch about a client's wants, you have to show us what you gave her and then we can advise you. Not saying anything about your style, but if you deliver washed-out highlights like a fashion photog's close-ups and her sister's point & shoot captured all of the fine details in the shade at the park, you could be in for a long ride: The Bride went fickle and changed her mind on what she likes cause she saw something from a point & shoot that you didn't produce!</p>

<p>This brings to mind an example in what labs think is good:</p>

<p>I LOVED the color & saturation I got from my Fuji S-3's! The jpgs looked great right out of the cameras (all 4 of them)! The lab tweeked one of my jobs into something that went washed-out & BLAHHH and it hit a nerve with me. I told the guy at the lab to put my disk into the computer and look at the images' color that he saw. He told me that they needed correction. I told him NOT to, and to just density correct if needed (I'm not perfect). What I got back the second time was perfect, and the client loved it too! Turns-out that the lab's monitor was out of adjustment......</p>

<p>Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Brides are women. Women CHANGE their minds, sometimes more than once in a day. Some of them are Bi-Polar to boot. Unfortuneately, we have to just deal with them.......</p>

<p>Good luck, and DO NOT CAVE-IN! Maybe all she wants is some "Free Sh**" and you're chops are getting busted until you make an offer to give it up. Weddings are expensive, and sometimes the really like too many of your images and want a lot more than they originally paid for......</p>

[Hector Javkin]

<blockquote>

<p>Brides are women. Women CHANGE their minds, sometimes more than once in a day. Some of them are Bi-Polar to boot. Unfortuneately, we have to just deal with them.......</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Steph,<br>

If the advice you are getting for dealing with a bride includes this expression of contempt for brides and for women, be very careful about taking that advice.</p>

[savagesax]

Since the RAW files were NOT part of your contract, I would strongly suggest that they pay extra for these because you put a lot of time into editing and these RAW files are worth whatever you fell is justified money wise. I would charge somewhere between 1 dollar to 5 dollars, depending on how much you charged for the wedding. If you charged around $1500 for the wedding, how much were your profits? At $5000 how much were your profits? For me, I usually "try," to profit $300 to $350 per hour, including the 2 hours of editing. If it takes longer for you to edit, charge accordingly.

 

If she wants the RAW files you can also ask for the return of the jpegs, again this is related to your contract and how you wish to solve this. I try to always avoid court. In fact I've never been to court so play around a bit and come to some sort of financial agreement. You can use the jeps for a proof album.

 

I surely wouldn't give her the RAW files without some sort of $, unless she has referred you to a few weddings.

 

You really have a lot of room to play with here. Don't be afraid to tell her you will think about it in an email before deciding and let 2 or 3 days go by. This will let her know that this is most likely your last offer. If she emails you before you are ready to give her an answer, tell her you are still thinking about it and you are working on other weddings. You will get back to her soon. She may yell and scream, don't worry about it. Write when you are ready and don't let people scare you or get on your nerves.

 

I would suggest you ask Nadine not to post your name as all sorts of people can find this post, including the wedding couple. Send Nadine an email and perhaps she can still take your name off of this post.

 

Good luck.

[limitedten]

<p>Sometimes I would boast my self as an artist and apply any color (or whatever styling one would call it) to the photos and call it "my style".........</p>

<p>but when I shoot for people, especially on their important days, "my style" doesn't matter. I mean, I suppose there are reasons camera makers have those picture styles/controls plus white balances there, I suppose they did some research and asked people around on it before they put it inside the cameras. They won't please all, but might please most.</p>

<p>Based on this, I always provide JPGs with colors (as close to the actual colors of the event) as the main "product" in the cd, plus some of "my style" version if I feel like it (stipulated within the contract). It's also useful should the clients have some "photoshop wizards" teenage relatives (more of them these days), easier for them to put it in to B&W, rather than the other way around, without bugging me.</p>

<p>Shooting RAW makes it easy for me to provide any necessary version. In this region, where some people don't even know what to do with CD's I gave them, RAW is not to be given.</p>

<p>About the bride, you already have some perspectives here. But it is sometimes interesting to see it from the bride's perspective. It's terrible for her to be upset, but it is more terrible for her to be upset on something that she doesn't understand. Sometimes I can just see it on the client's eyes, that hopelessness, it's remarkable sometimes how different we put the emphasis on things we deem important - or not... and how "unnecessarily" frantic they are from our perspective.</p>

<p>If you've been doing good business from photography, and if it's not against your contract, there's no harm in being kind (yeah, slap me). Try to give her the "original colors" in JPEG's, charge for them if you have to, see if it work.</p>

<p>As for the RAW... it's your call, I personally wouldn't release RAW, perhaps not for any reason (not even if they know what to do with it), and if I should, then there should be some kind of specific agreement.</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>It sounds like you do something different in your processing of the raws but without seeing any of your work I can not say for sure. What I would do is make her another set of Jpegs all processed out in the proper white balance. How does she know you shoot raw? who brought that up? It really doesn't matter as long as the client has the full resolution of jpegs that is the same as the negative so to speak. You are the photographer and the professional and therefore knows how to process the raws to look the way they should. Unless your so called style calls for you to do some fancy processing. </p>

[peter_lambert1]

<p>Not enough info to advise you really. My feeling would be to politely say no. She could muck around with your raw files and then say you are inferior. Your reputation could be trashed.</p>

<p>Common practice here is to produce the DVD with two versions of the images, low and high res. And the image files are locked so they can't be edited again. We are also moving to use PDF's.</p>

<p>You have been paid in full before you released any images, right?</p>

[sjgcit]

<blockquote>

<p>I of course, responded to her email explaining that I could send her non-black and white versions of the requested images but that I couldn't send her RAW files. She then responded with an ubrupt email demanding the images "as they were taken on the day" because they like the "original colours".</p>

</blockquote>

<p>OK, so send her the colour versions of the B&Ws. See what happens.</p>

<p>You should probably <em>explain</em> that RAW files are not viewable images and do not have real colour. That they require careful processing to convert to viewable images. She possibly is not aware of this. Unless you have an explicit statement in your contract saying you only supply edited images I don't think you can refuse to supply them - particularly if you provide DVDs of files.</p>

<p>You are in a word of mouth business so it's rather anti-productive to start being negative. Use of language is important. For example "Can't" is negative language, "won't" is worse. Re-read everything you send and consider it from the point of view of someone who is angry and stressed - neutral and calm language.</p>

<p>In business <em>everything</em> is negotiable.</p>

 

[William Michael]

<blockquote>

<p>“How would you word an email to a rude, difficult client?”</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If I were you, I would be responding rather quickly to the client, which is one factor to demonstrate to the client your: efficiency; professionalism and curtsey.</p>

<p>However, as you asked the question here, it is obvious that you wanted feedback to assist you in your response.</p>

<p>If you still require that experienced feedback, then it would auger well for you to respond, post haste, to the questions asked of you, which will clarify details of your situation, allowing for more tailored responses.</p>

<p>There are many years' experience here - which very well might assist you greatly and at zero cost, other than for you to answer the questions, asked.</p>

<p>WW </p>

 

[savagesax]

Maybe he went away. He hasn't responded to some really great answers here.

[david_rosenthal1]

<p>Bob,</p>

<p>If you're referring to me as "going away", I really don't understand why.</p>

<p>I've been in the trenches for decades. I have proofing jobs in storage from Brides who never picked-up their proofs and finished paying me my last 1/3 of the contract. I have finished albums in storage with low balances still waiting to be paid on a COD basis (that a years old). </p>

<p>I've had Brides have a breakdown on their wedding day cause the flowers were wrong (try selling a copy of any image with the flowers in it). And I've had Brides that LOVE the proofs in the studio, hug & kiss me at proof pick-up, even leave a tip for the assistant at proof pick-up and then pay for the entire balance of the contract (including the finished albums) and NEVER contact or repond to us (phone or email) to do the album lay-out.</p>

<p>I had a Bride & Groom that both worked at Carr Futures</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>Relax David I believe Bob is referring to the "poster" Steph.</p>

[daverhaas]

<p>David - </p>

<p>He was referring to the OP as was William W. </p>

<p>A lot of great answers, suggestions and comments over the last couple of days, yet the OP seems to have vanished or perhaps gotten their answer and moved on. </p>

<p>By the way - usually when I see "Steph" I assume, perhaps incorrectly a female, not a male. All of the males named Stephan I've known have preferred either Steve or Stephan - Never "Steph". Although all of the females have gone with Stef. </p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[david_rosenthal1]

<p>O-K Guys, and thanks!</p>

<p>I tried to do an edit on my last post and clicked on the wrong button, resulting in more than 1/2 of my last post being deleted. IF the OP does come back I'll try to remember to re-write what I said including a story about building albums for the families of WTC Attack victims who both worked on the 92nd floor. A real heart-tug that lay-out was. They were the B&G. They found a piece of her through DNA, and never did find anything from him.......</p>

<p>Customer service is best done face to face, NOT reading complaints and answering them on a computer screen. Sometimes all you have to do to make them happy is to crop-out or extend the length of the mini-dress and cover-up the "girls" on the wedding "hoe" in the background and all of a sudden they love the image instead of hate it.......been there-done that-got the t shirt!</p>

<p>Take care everyone and have a great weekend!</p>

<p>Dave</p>

[mark_harrington1]

<p>Explain to the bride that color is irrelevant unless she is viewing the images on a properly calibrated monitor under ideal conditions. Print colors often times vary from screen images because color workflow is an entire system, not just properly corrected images being printed at the local drug store. If after this she doesn't accept your response have her come to your studio or place of business and show her the images properly displayed on a calibrated monitor and make adjustments with her there, then burn the dvd of jpg images. I'm surprised the client even knows what a raw image is and even knowing that, its a big assumption that you shot the wedding in raw, unless you made an issue of it.... Many wedding photographers choose jpgs for a host of reasons. These type of problems are controlled during the negotiation of the contract terms, not after the fact. Learn from it and set the expectations up front.</p>

[nick_alamanos]

<p>Color is relevant, I remember my first jobs were way over processed. I went trigger happy with all the lightroom presets i had downloaded. No one complained, but I look back now and would have preferred a more natural look.</p>