First Wedding in 10 days! Need advice

[max_brunell]

<p>So I have shot at a couple weddings and I was the main shooter at 1 but it was super informal and the Bride didnt really care about what she got. So this is my first real wedding as the main shooter, my wife will be assisting/second shooting. She is very creative, but not very technical about knowing how to change camera settings to get the photo she wants. Thats what im trying to learn. It is outside and that might be good, might be bad. I havent been to the location so I dont know anything about it. What questions do I need to be asking before hand and what do I need to be prepared for? Should I use flash on most shots for fill? Getting nervous! Im sure yall will ask about my equipment so here it is:</p>

<ul>

<li> 5d mk2 with grip</li>

<li>16-35mm 2.8</li>

<li>24-105mm f4L IS (would this be ok to use since I will be outside? Im assuming shooting at 2.8 won't matter here)</li>

<li>70-200 2.8 IS</li>

<li>100mm 2.8L IS Macro</li>

<li>580ex ii</li>

</ul>

<p> </p>

<ul>

<li>7d with grip</li>

<li>17-55mm 2.8 IS</li>

<li>85mm 1.8</li>

<li>580ex ii</li>

</ul>

<p> </p>

<ul>

<li>t2i for backup body</li>

<li>430ex for backup flash</li>

</ul>

<p>Also..</p>

<ul>

<li> Pocket wizards, light stands, umbrellas, probably not enough cf cards.. (2) 16gb, (2) 8gb, (2) 4gb</li>

</ul>

<p>I have the equipment sectioned out because that is how I plan on pairing it when we use it, save the 70-200 being used on both.</p>

<p>I know that I have more gear than someone who is doing their first wedding would/should, and that this gear might portait knowledge about this service I am providing...but dont assume that. I bought good gear because I want to take great pics...now I just have to learn how to use the gear and take the pics.</p>

<p>Now just so you guys/girls dont think I am completely incompetent, we (my wife and I) were asked to do this wedding based on work we have already done (engagement pics).</p>

<p>Thank you ahead for the support and help!</p>

[william-porter]

<p>I don't personally assume that expensive (or extensive) gear means anything. Trust me, it's possible — indeed, easy — to suck with a 5D.</p>

<p>• <br>

<strong><br /></strong><br>

<strong>K.I.S.S. is as important as Kiss</strong><br>

I would try to keep the gear as simple as possible. You'll have lots of other things to keep you busy, and fiddling with gear can be a problem. I usually shoot with two cameras, each with a fast prime, so I'm not sure what to suggest about lenses. Suspect I'd use the 24-105 f/4 IS on the 5D, the 85 f/1.8 on the 7D — and forget about the rest. Me personally, I'd end up using that 85 f/1.8 as much as possible. I would think that using a full-frame AND an APS-C camera would be a little confusing, but maybe not.</p>

<p>But really, which lenses you'll use will depend on where you're shooting, where you're positioned, etc. Shots of the bride in the dressing room won't want the 70-200. <br>

<strong><br /></strong><br>

• </p>

<p><strong>F/8 and (especially) be there</strong><br>

Know the old saying "f/8 and be there"? The key thing about a wedding isn't f/8 — it's being there. That is, you've got to know the schedule and make sure you're in the right place at the right time to get your shot. You say you have some experience with weddings but let me remind you again that a wedding is very different from a portrait shoot. You're not in control of the events (very much or very often) at a wedding. Know the schedule, the locations and be prepared to move fast.<br>

<strong><br /></strong><br>

By all means, attend the rehearsal. Talk to the folks in charge. Take some photos. Plan. The rehearsal is a huge opportunity.<br>

<strong><br /></strong><br>

• </p>

<p><strong>Let the camera help you (K.I.S.S. again)</strong><br>

You say your <em>wife </em>doesn't know how to change settings to get the picture she wants, then you say, "That's what <em>I </em>am trying to learn." I'm confused about who's not technical here. It's good to think when you can but to do well at a wedding, I think you really need to be able to shoot without thinking.</p>

<p>I used to shoot in M all the time because I was trained to and was comfortable doing it but in recent years I'm learning to trust the camera more. I use A now most of the time. If you really know M (or A) and trust yourself to get good results that way, great. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with shooting the entire wedding in P mode. Lot of brains built into the camera; might as well use 'em.</p>

<p>The most important thing at a wedding has to be simply <em>getting the shot. </em>The means that your priorities have to be composition and timing. And those are pretty big challenges at a wedding. If you really feel in control of those elements, well, then you can start worrying about depth of field, noise, etc. Of course, <em>everything matters.</em> Shutter speed matters, ISO matters, aperture matters a lot, so do focal length, focusing mode and selected focal point, exposure mode, exposure compensation, etc. But it's hard for a beginner to stay in control of all of these things. Safer to let the camera handle as much as possible. Use auto ISO and set a reasonable range. Take a great picture, you get full credit. Nobody asks later on what mode you used.<br>

<strong><br /></strong><br>

• </p>

<p><strong>Outdoors?</strong><br>

Not sure what do say about the outdoors part. I've shot weddings and wedding receptions outdoors, but the problems vary greatly depending on venue, time of year, time of day, cloud cover and weather generally. Indoor shooting is more predictable. (I had a carefully planned sunset shot canceled by bride because by sunset it was too darned cold to stay outside.) Unless God graciously gives you nice clouds to diffuse the light, I would guess you'll be using flash a lot. But you'll just have to see.<br>

<strong><br /></strong><br>

• </p>

<p><strong>Formals</strong><br>

One of the main reasons folks still hire wedding photographers is that that they know there's something difficult about doing formal portraits well. And there is. I'd talk to the bride and try to get the number of portraits down to the absolute minimum. I'd like to keep it to four, personally:</p>

<ol>

<li>Bride and groom and officiant (almost always the first shot after the ceremony so the officiant can skedaddle)</li>

<li>Bride and groom and their parents</li>

<li>Bride and groom and the wedding parties</li>

<li>Bride and groom alone</li>

<li>(If there was never a bridal portrait) Bride by herself</li>

</ol>

<p>In that order. Try to take the bride into doing the photos of her and the groom and her great-grandmother at the reception, informally.<br>

<strong><br /></strong><br>

• </p>

<p><strong>Breathe in, breathe out</strong><br>

Don't let yourself get rattled. That's important!</p>

<p>Good luck. </p>

<p>Will</p>

[max_brunell]

<p>William, thank you for the very helpful and descriptive response. I said "thats what Im trying to learn," because I didnt want to sound like I knew it all. I shoot in M 95% of the time. I have not shot much in P but I don't have a problem starting to try P.</p>

<p>What do I need to know about positioning for the formals/wedding party pics as well as looking for a good background? I was told when shooting these, not to make them fancy. The formals don't get you weddings, but they can lose them for you. So Im thinking stop down to make sure everyone is in focus and not to worry about blurring out the background much. And should I use flash with these? And what if a mounted 580ex ii doesnt do the job because there are too many people? All questions from inexperience I suppose.</p>

[william-porter]

<p><strong>Shooting mode</strong><br>

Shooting in M is great — if you're really comfortable with it, in a fast-moving situation. But it's riskier than using one of the automatic modes. I shot in M for decades and thought I was really comfortable. When I shot my first wedding five years ago I remember making a classic mistake: I followed the bride out of the church to the waiting limo, but in the heat of the moment I forgot to change my settings, so of course the shots I took after I stepped outside were all blown out. I knew how to shoot in M, felt comfortable with it, had even shot sports and done journalistic coverage in M. But weddings are a real challenge.</p>

<p>For the next couple of years I kept using M (and never made that mistake again) but a couple years ago I started to wonder why I was beating myself up like this. I used M recently at a dance event because I needed to make sure that the aperture AND the shutter speed stayed put. And I still use M when I'm doing formal studio/backdrop work with umbrellas. But for everything else, more and more I'm shooting in A (less often S) and it seems to work for me. Fewer mistakes.</p>

<p>Anyway, <em>whatever works for you,</em> is great. I would not suggest that you switch to P ten days before your first big wedding, if your experience has been in M and you feel comfortable with it. Nothing magical about either M or P. </p>

<p>.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>What do I need to know about positioning for the formals/wedding party pics as well as looking for a good background? I was told when shooting these, not to make them fancy. The formals don't get you weddings, but they can lose them for you. So Im thinking stop down to make sure everyone is in focus and not to worry about blurring out the background much. And should I use flash with these? And what if a mounted 580ex ii doesnt do the job because there are too many people? All questions from inexperience I suppose.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, and this can be a problem. If there's any way for you to practice before the wedding — invite a dozen friends to dinner and make them pose for 30 minutes before you feed them — it might be useful. </p>

<p>You almost certainly <em>will</em> want to use flash, unless through some freak set of circumstances you've been given perfect lighting, for example, you're shooting outdoors and the sun and the clouds are providing light that is strong, but diffuse and even. There's a lot of info here about the formals and you could spend time searching. I've been given great advice myself here. But you can't spend too much time reading: More important to practice.</p>

<p>•<br>

<strong>Depth of field </strong><br>

I will offer a couple suggestions (with which others may disagree). As you said, you'll want to stop down to maintain a good amount of depth of field. With my APS-C cameras I've usually been happy around f/5.6. With your 5D that might work. (Remember, depth of field isn't determined just by the aperture but by the camera's distance from the focal plane. The closer you move, the less depth of field you keep, other things being equal.) Check out this site:</p>

<p>http://dofmaster.com/dofjs.html</p>

<p>It says that a 5D (MkII) at 12 ft, f/8 and using 50mm lens will have 9+ ft of depth of field (about 3ft in front of the focal plane and 6 ft behind). Open up just 1 stop to f/5.6 and you now have only 6 ft of depth of field (about 2ft in front and 4ft behind). Remember it's usually the amount of depth of field <em>behind</em> that matters, at least it is for me, when the bride is in the front row. (If she's not, then I adjust if necessary.)</p>

<p>•<br>

<strong>Corralling, Lighting, Posing</strong><br>

Lots to this subject. I always arrange beforehand to have someone close to the bride or groom but not in the wedding party act as a sort of sheep dog for me, to help me get the subjects corralled and in front of the camera at the right time. I have my shots planned and share that with the sheep dog. I let the wedding principals and close family know how I'm going to do this the night before at the rehearsal. Moving the people on and off "stage" is half of the challenge (the stage for me usually being the steps in front of the altar at church, but not always). </p>

<p>Helps if the sheep dog or somebody else can stand next to you and give you a second pair of eyes to look for things like the flow of the bride's dress or train, whether the groom's collar is turned wrong or his hair mussed, etc. For heaven's sake use a tripod, so you can LOOK with your eyes (and not through the finder). Tripod and remote shutter release (cable works better than infrared for me but I've used both) are very helpful.</p>

<p>Some test shots at the rehearsal (even if you only have one or two people there to pose for you) can be helpful. Whatever shooting mode you select, it's probably good to adjust to nominally overexpose by some amount (for me it's usually about two-thirds of a stop). Want to make sure the bride's dress is white — although at the same time you do not lose the detail and texture in the groom's black tuxedo. </p>

<p>I've done it with one flash (on the camera), one flash (hand held above and slightly to the side of the camera), and with two and three flashes (on flash stands to the sides). More light is definitely better, but it's more work to set up and remember you'll be in a hurry. </p>

<p>You need aperture like f/5.6 or f/8 for depth of field, shutter speed of at least 1/125th second (and preferably faster) to counteract slight movement in the subjects, and as low ISO as possible to minimize noise. Again, unless you're shooting outside in the day time and the light is perfect, this usually means that you need the help of one or more flash units (or heavier duty lights) to give you enough light.</p>

<p>Posing: Boy this really is an area where experience and practice pay off. A very key thing is, you have to remain upbeat and pleasant through this because you have to keep the bride happy (she's working almost as hard as you, posing and smiling through photo after photo), remain in control of the crowd, deal with interference from guest photographers (let them take their shots after you take yours). Actual posing, well, that's a chapter in itself. A little study is in order.</p>

<p>Will</p>

[pete_s.]

<p>Go to the location, bring your camera, and think about what might happen and good places to shoot from. Check where the sun will be at the time when you are going to shoot. Check light levels (exposure). Check what focal lengths you might need. The more you know the easier it is to be prepared.</p>

<p>Make a list of what could happen during the day (bride is late, it's starts to rain, your car breaks down going there etc) and how you would handle that situation.</p>

<p>When it comes to the actual shooting don't get too creative, rather try to do a solid good job with no serious screw ups. Try to keep it simple and concentrate on the basics. No fancy stuff this first time. Remember that even the things you can do in your sleep without thinking is a lot harder to do when you are under pressure. And you will be under pressure since you know that you don't have everything under full control. Don't let it show though :-)</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p> </p>

[markonestudios]

<p>Max, there are myriad threads on Photo.net discussing this very thing. You may want to do a quick search as there is a true wealth of information to be had. Try this <a href="../search/?cx=000753226439295166877%3A0gyn0h9z85o&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&q=first+wedding+inurl%3A%2Fwedding-photography-forum%2F&qx=first+wedding&sa=Search+This+Forum">link</a></p>

[max_brunell]

<p>Will and Pete - Awesome, thanks for all of the input and support!<br>

Mark - thanks for that link, I will check it out.</p>

[booray]

<p>William has written two great posts... tons of valuable info there. I'll toss in a few additions that might come in handy.</p>

<p>With outdoor weddings, I tend to shoot in Tv mode. Set your shutter speed at a reasonable speed (1/200..) and go to town. Typically, I am using exposure compensation of +1 but that's because I'm at the beach and the camera tries to render all the sand to neutral gray. Sure, I blow out the sky sometimes but that's the price you pay for white sand.</p>

<p>Posing people for outdoor portraits is easy but so often screwed up. If you have bright sun, put it behind the subjects at a 45 degree angle. You want the sun to act as a kicker light. Then, use evaluative metering and focus with the center-point on the brides face, re-compose and shoot. Check the LCD and dial up the flash compensation if needed (the brighter the day, the more you will need). Shoot again until it's right, then you are ready to rock. If you have the time and inclination to use OCL, set it up opposite the sun. If you are on the beach and it's bright you have to choose between letting the sky go white and letting the sand go grey. In a non-beach setting it's not a big deal since dark green grass is still okay. </p>

 

[savagesax]

There are about 5 or more posts a month about people shooting their first wedding. I'd strongly suggest doing a search on this topic and you will most likely find about 100's of pages with top photographers giving excellent advice.

 

The people that already posted some info for you are a few of the pro's that you will find in those 100's, of pages for new shooters.

 

Take a look at these readings and practice what was written and continue asking us about the camera functions as well as posing techniques.

 

I just did the search for you. Type in "First Wedding." There are 184,000 posts on first weddings! You will surely learn alot and feel free in asking more questions on this site. Most likely you will have greater success reading past wedding forums.

 

Please don't get the feeling that I'm blowing you off. Actually the opposite. None of us can possibly offer you 184,000 posts of information. For you to help make your wedding a complete success this library will turn you into a pro overnight, well at least a very advanced shooter. Needless to say, practice about 1 to 2 hours a day for the next 10 days, so you will have an abundance of knowledge and the couple will love their pictures.

 

Continue to post as you will have lots of questions during the next 10 days.

[Jerry_]

<p>Outdoors with light stands, etc. -- hopefully you have a person to stand guard to keep the foot-traffic from tripping over one of them. Kids playing tag among the light stands are fun to watch, too.</p>

<p>Batteries: do you have a idea of how much of a toll *fill-flash* outside will take on your 580EX units?</p>

<p>...not a Canon user, but you may want to get your wife into a white dress, go outside and take a few shots with your camera's "P" "A" and "M" modes -- you want to see what works best before the wedding. A white dress may/may not throw off the exposure for the bride's face.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

[max_brunell]

<p>Awesome, thanks again for all of the info. As well as the direction to the 184,000+ pages of info on this very topic. I just picked up more AA rechargeable batteries. I have a couple sets of enloopes and a couple sets of Duracells. We have been practicing and I am reading up. As I have more questions, I will post.</p>

<p>You guys are awesome!</p>

[savagesax]

Enloopes batteries are very good and will last a long time. I have several sets from 5 years ago. Although I use Quantum battery packs the batteries that you just bought, I use them for the pocket wizards, flash meters and the 580 Canon flash for backlighting couples.

 

You should probably change your flash batteries around every 100 pops. I'm sure the batteries will have a lot of juice left, but if they recycle slowly on you, well you may miss that perfect shot.

[jon_menezes]

<p>Well thats quite the list. I havent read most of the responses but i hope to give you some valuable information that you can use.<br>

KEEP it simple. I am a reno wedding photographer</a> and the locations are not always the best, but if you know what to do you can make any location look better than it was. I would avoid using the flash for fill, and the remote set ups for your first shoot, things will be moving fast. One thing you need to make sure you accomplish is the correct exposure for all shots, and creative points of view, if you are worrying about all the rest for your first shoot your going to miss a lot of great and candid shots.<br>

So use your camera, and most versatile lens. My primary lens is 24-70 2.8. I set the camera meter mode to spot, that way i can point it at what i want to expose correctly and then adjust based on that and not the scene. You will avoid a lot of unwanted silhouetting this way.<br>

The other simple advice is to look up great photographers and look at their posing. Try to remember a few for the day. Also look for creative ideas.<br>

Hope that helps<br /><p><b>Signature URL removed. Not allowed per photo.net guidelines.</b></p>