charles_swanson1 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 <p>I know the AI-s Nikkor 24mm f2.8 has CRC..... I am trying to determine if the older AI version of the 24mm f2.8 also had CRC...<br> Thanks in advance to whoever answers this. The info seems to be impossible to find on the internet.<br> CWS</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 <p>Ever since Nikon introduced AI back in 1977, all versions of Nikon's 24mm/f2.8 have exactly the same optical formula. In other words, the AI, AI-S, AF, and AF-D versions all have CRC. The coating may be a bit different over time, but the optical formula has not changed in 3+ decades. That is partly why even the latest 24mm/f2.8 is not that great a lens any more.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael R Freeman Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 <p>As Shun noted, all versions of the 24mm f/2.8 have CRC, specifically via the rear group. If you look at the rear element of the Nikkor 24/2.8 (any manual or AF version) as you focus it, you'll see that the rear group rotates with focus on a secondary helicoid. Compare that to any other unit focusing Nikkor prime without CRC, say the AF-D or AiS versions of the 50/1.8 or 50/1.4, and you'll immediately see the obvious difference (no rear element rotation).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 <p>I have an old Ai lens Brochure of Nikon's and in that the 24mm f/2.8 is listed as having CRC. The date of the brochure is 1979.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjørn rørslett Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 <p>The first Nikkor-N 24/2.8 from late '60s had CRC.</p> <p>The 24/2.8 AiS is perhaps not stellar on FX cameras, but does more than adequately on such cameras as D700, D3/3S, and D3X. I use it a lot for IR with D200 and suchlike cameras as well.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mihai_ciuca Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 <p>I have serious doubts that all versions of Nikon's 24mm/f2.8 have exactly the same optical formula. I used to own an earlier copy of the AI version and at one point I wanted to upgrade to the AF-D version. I did a brief test with a borrowed AF lens and my MF copy was superior especially wide open. Of course you can't be sure when testing just a single copy of each version but the difference was quite visible on D700.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigd Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 <p>The original 24mm f/2.8 Nikkor c. 1967 was in fact the first Nikon lens with CRC. There has never been a non-CRC version of that lens, either in manual focus or AF.</p> <p>According to Roland Vink's site, the formula changed from 9 elements in 7 groups to 9 elements in 9 groups when the AI version came out in the late '70s. After that it remained stable. This doesn't necessary mean there were no changes at all to the formula after the '70s (there are a lot of different ways to use 9 elements in 9 groups), but I don't know of any reason to think that there have been any significant changes since then other than AF and perhaps some improvements in the lens coatings. From the outside, aside from cosmetics, they all look very similar.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 <p>Mihai, I've also noticed that supposedly "same formula" lenses in MF are often superior to the AF versions. I put this down to sloppier construction in the AF lenses, with greater use of plastics and looser tolerances to make the focusing freer. Or maybe both you and I have simply been unlucky in the AF lenses that've come our way?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles_swanson1 Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 <p>Thanks to all. Answers appreciated. I am currently thinking I will add the 24mm to my bag, but also considering the 20mm f3.5. If anybody would like to take this thread for a slight turn, I would appreciate feedback on this as well. Is there really a big difference other than 20 vs 24?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg_s1 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 <p>Charles,<br> I have and use and like both - the 24/2.8 AiS and 20/3.5 AiS.<br> The 20/3.5 AiS is a lens with really strong vignetting - I have to stop it down to f8-11 to get pretty even skys. Sharpness and contrast in the corners are not very good from f 3.5-5.6. It's better in terms of flare and ghosting than the 24/2.8 AiS.<br> The 24/2.8 AiS is also a strong vignetting lens, but not so extreme like the 20mm. Corner contrast and sharpness are better in the 24mm, but flare and ghosting are a weak point of the 24/2.8 AiS.<br> I use both lenses with a D700 and from time to time wide-open to use the vignetting as an effect.<br> The 14-24/2.8 easily outperforms the classics, but not everybody likes the bulk, weight and price of this outstanding zoom.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mihai_ciuca Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 <p>Joe, I'm not sure which is the situation with 24... but with the 28mm f2.8 the AI-S version is a fine lens when the AF-D lens is a dog... So at least with some lenses Nikon reduced the standards when upgraded to AF-D.</p> <p>In the same direction even though 85/1.4 AF-D is a very nice lens there are guys who are swearing that optically the 85/1.4 AI-S is a bit superior. Probably that's why the AI-S sells for so much money on the used market.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince-p Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>I find my 24/2.8 good, but I don't grab it with anticipation fervor etc. The 20/3.5, however, I love. I have both the AiS and the old UD non-Ai version which is huge. I don't know the old well yet, but the "newer" one is among my absolute favorites. I love to walk around the city at night with it on an F100, with that camera's great metering. If I were investing in one I'd go for the AiS 20/3.5 any and every day. </p> <p>It just so happens I recently bought a used AF-S 16-35 f/4G and not long before that an AF-S 24-85mm f3.5-4.5G and tested these against my AF 24mm f/2.8D and the AiS 20m f/3.5.So I tested them all on the D700. In my office/spare bedroom.</p> <p>The AiS 20/3.5 tested against the 16-35 (which is really at its best at 20 and 24) has the stronger vignetting, quite noticeably, probably a stop and a half greater at the extreme corners. This doesn't bother me particularly because vignetting in most pictures doesn't bother me and when it does it's easy to fix. But of ALL FIVE lenses the 20/3.5 is sharpest in the center. If you blow these images up (before I jpeg'd them and cut them to 600p wide, that is) to 200 percent, the text on the white paper on the bed, a student paper, is sharpest, darkest, clearest, and easiest to read with the 20/3.5. But since you're in the market, here are the comparisons. The 24mm f/2.8D goes up against both AF-S lenses and the AIS 20/3.5 just against the AF-S 16-35.</p> <p> </p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince-p Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>These are way warmer here than on my computer, sorry. Keep in mind the floors aren't straight, the windows aren't straight and I wasn't holding the camera straight. So the apparent barrel distortion is probably not as severe as it looks in the prior pic.</p> <p> </p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince-p Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>Same distortion basically. Let's see the 16-35....</p> <div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince-p Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>Little less distortion and a better positioning of camera... hardly fair. That's 20mm at f4 also by the way. Forgot to put that in. Now for the 20mm</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince-p Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>Little less distortion and a better positioning of camera... hardly fair. That's 20mm at f4 also by the way. Forgot to put that in. Now for the 20mm</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince-p Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>I know, the vignetting. Well it's old, and the D700 is tough. Not nearly so bad on film, in my experience. Note less distortion (from what we can tell) than the 24's. I love this lens. Here's the fancy AF-S 16-35mm at 20mm:</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince-p Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>These were all taken at ISO 1600. The compensation was left on from some earlier adventure at +.67 and I never noticed, so I took them all down half to two-thirds of a stop as I saw fit in post processing. For some reason the 24-85 shot at 1/15th, the 24/2.8 at 1/20th, the 20/3.5 at 1/20th, the 16-35 at 24mm at 1/25th, and the same lens at 20mm at 1/30th. Go figure. Nikons do that a lot I've noticed. Or mine do. So maybe this is my usual waste of time but it amused me. I was glad to see my old 20mm do so well. It renders beautifully, I think.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <blockquote> <p> . . .24mm/f2.8 is not that great a lens any more.</p> </blockquote> <p>Maybe not "state of the art" but agree with Bjorn, it's still a pretty good lens especially on the street where the DOF comes in handy when you want to zone focus when there's plenty of light. It makes it very fast to use an the IQ is very decent.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles_swanson1 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>Many thanks to all.... I purchased a mint condition AI-S 20mm f3.5. It will be used on all three of by Nikon bodies - D2x, FT2, N8008</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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