Camera Profiles in Camera Raw PS5 and LR3

[kristen_brochmann1]

<p>I have a Canon 1ds Mark iii and a Canon 5d Mark ii and have noticed a difference in the Camera Profile tab in Camera Raw in PS5 and Bridge. With the 1ds the default is ACR 4.3 while with the 5d the default is Adobe Standard and ACR is not in the list. There is a pronounced red cast in the Adobe Standard in the 5d that is not there in ACR. Why is there no ACR available in Photoshop for the 5d? This applies for Lightroom 3 as well. What am I missing? Both PS5 and Lightroom are up to date. ACR for the 5d is under version 5.2 and I have that loaded.<br>

Thanks for any input</p>

[symple]

<p>You can save the default ACR settings by camera model and even serial number. Make the adjustments you desire in ACR, then save as your default and these settings will come up each team in ACR and you lightroom preview will show that as the default as well.</p>

[dan_south]

I use Adobe standard as my starting point most of the time. Every file requires its own set of tweaks, so profiles don't

have my value in my workflow. I'll switch to Camera Standard in less than five percent of cases and Camera Landscape

once in a very great while, but only when Adobe Standard leads to a dead end.

[scott_ferris]

Kristen,

 

Spend $99 on an X-Rite Color Passport and make custom profiles for both your cameras, then use that as a starting point

for post work. It is a two minute automated process. It is the easiest way to get accurate and reproducible colours and will get you very similar response curves across your gear.

[don_bryant2]

<p>+1 with what Scott wrote. And then follow S. Grant's advice if you wish and to take it farther setup a unique profile with different illuminates. </p>

<p>Step 1 though is as Scott Ferris wrote.</p>

 

[symple]

<p>I have used EJ Peiker's camera profiles for my ACR settings in the past, at least from the pre-ACR 5.x, and while I have the full X-Rite suite and have calibrated everything myself, it is an art unto itself and fairly far removed from the satisfaction of a workable profile that is "close enough".<br>

Try a search using "Peiker" "ACR" "Profile" and you will find some really good threads on the web. E.J. is a great resource, and I was pleased with the results when I bought his profiles so that all my RAW files ended up matching when converted, regardless of whether it was my 1Ds II or my XTi, but once ACR 5.x came around, things changed and the process became much easier.<br>

I don't recommend investing in the X-rite, hire someone locally who has the tools and let them calibrate your monitor/printer because I have had a heck of a time trying myself and believe it to be a real skill, but I AM challenged!<br>

Best of luck, and have fun.</p>

[don_bryant2]

<p>> I don't recommend investing in the X-rite,</p>

<p>S. Grant I think you have your topics and methodology confused, or that is how I read your post.</p>

<p><br /></p>

[symple]

<p>Don,<br /> Might have topics confused, but they are related to Kristen's post at least in others' responses. I think Kristen just has two separate settings on ACR as a legacy under default, and when I used the 5D II and 1Ds III together they indeed had a different calibration in ACR, however I feel that the X-Rite route is a very specialized and intensive route for what appears to be a simple adjustment within ACR itself; namely bring the defaults to 5.x and beyond at standard - and have some point of reference before investing the time in calibration on the viewing/output end. <br /> I am sure it will buried in some other post, but I started with X-Rite in 2007 and it is a great product, but going there for Kristen at this point might be like jumping from shooting jpeg to RAW. If you really need to have your output matched, surely there is a qualified professional for hire that would cost less than the hardware/software much less the time to learn; we have people who do this here for about $80/hr which I consider a bargain considering how much time I have put in to X-Rite, but I am slow. I would once again like to thank E.J. for his solutions too, though by his own acknowledgement ACR 5.x on eliminated much of the need for unique profiles for the camera side. These forums are full of opinions, and I am happy to pay each year for my use of the photo.net site and not post often, I just thought Kristen's dilemma is a little more simple than what this has become.<br /> All the best.</p>

[kristen_brochmann1]

<p>Thanks everyone for your responses. You are right, I am not going to buy a stand alone package. The cameras are used at work for location set ups and when the Sinar back on the P3 has to go on a six week vacation to a Swiss chalet for repair, which has happened three times over the last two years. My question is really why don't I have an ACR option with the 5d in the pull down menu in profiles in Camera Raw when I have one with the 1ds. Is ACR just rolled into the other options now and I can toggle between Adobe Standard and Camera Standard to see which works best? Another photographer shooting with the 5d has settled on Camera Neutral to get the red out, but looks flat (surprise).<br>

In sum, ACR 4.3 looks very good on the 1ds and my question is why don't I have it in Camera Raw for the 5d. If it is available where do I download it? I also notice that ACR is not in the profile menu in Lightroom 3 for the 5d. You are all very thoughtful and I appreciate the input and thanks again, Kristen</p>

[symple]

<p>Yes, it is basically a toggle now Kristen, though you can make the adjustment and save it for you specific body to reduce the reds. Why it isn't the same I do not know, and I personally preferred the 4.x ACR myself since the differences are more 'transparent' than the new system. I make the Lightroom 3 adjustments in CS5 ACR interface using the profile "save new camera default" and not worry about it. If someone has already saved defaults at your workstation for the camera model, reset to RAW default might work too.</p>

[scott_ferris]

Kirsten,

 

I can't believe anybody is using Sinars, 1Ds MkIII's etc and doesn't have a robust calibration method. How could you hope

to get accurate colours? By default Adobe rendering of 1Ds MkIII files is very red, distractingly so. Sure apply any effect

you want in post, but you really do need to start out with a known colour response. How can you use two cameras on one

job without calibrating them?

 

S.Grant obviously doesn't understand camera calibration if he believes the answer is to buy a custom profile and use it for

that camera, that is not how it works.

 

The one minute answer to almost all camera colour rendering issues is the X-Rite, it is painless, fast, efficient, fully

integrated with your workflow, almost totally automatic, it allows and adjusts for all lighting scenarios and the subtlest of

differences in response curves. It is so easy and quick anybody who can switch on a computer can do it in one minute

with no training or instruction.

 

But if consistency and accuracy are not worth one minute and $99 I understand your wanting a compromised work

around to an inaccurate and inconsistent result. It is as fundamental to a quality result as monitor calibration.

[kristen_brochmann1]

<p>There is a room full of people who color check everything we shoot and who output on customized RIPs. Once a set up is calibrated in Image Editing the tweaks are applied to all similar files. Then they go color by color and area by area tweaking the color until some one signs off on it. I assure you that a lot of calibration is involved, just not at the camera level.<br>

The answer seems to be that ACR is now rolled in the Camera Profiles in PS5 and that ACR 4.x is a legacy for the older camera. In fact Camera Neutral seems to give the best result for our output. The Image Editors prefer files with open and flattish shadows since it gives them overhead to do their edits.</p>

<p>Thanks again to all, Kristen</p>

[scott_ferris]

So what are you shooting for them to calibrate to? You must be giving them files with standard colours, like a color

checker, if not their entire "calibration" workflow has no foundation.

 

Without a known baseline of sensor response any colour output, however well managed on the best of monitors and

custom RIP's is just a personal eyesight rendition of what the colours might have looked like.

 

I first got serious about colours and the relationships between them when I started detailed shooting for artists portfolios,

my biggest critic was a lady who makes custom glazes for pottery. I thought I knew colour, she was amazing, not only

that but for her accurate colour was the only important aspect of her images. She could tell when i had changed flash

heads on set by the response curves on her glazes. Yes, I now have custom camera profiles for each flash head in each

soft box.

 

Anyway those were my experiences, you can't get close to accurate colours unless you start with an accurate camera

profile. Sorry if you didn't like the way I said it, but I thought you might gain from my hard work. Your back room staff

might be the best in the world, but without a known quantity in, the output can also never be known. Creating a known

quantity in is cheaper and easier than the postage for a Sinar to Switzerland :-)