Hy6, extension rings, Longar

[graham_mitchell]

<p>I tried my Longar and extension rings on the Hy6 today with my new AFD 80 lens, because I was curious whether the aperture and AF would be supported. There was a bit of a mixed result, as you can see:<br>

Longar: AF - lens moves but does not focus properly. Aperture - yes.<br />9mm: AF - yes. Aperture - yes<br />17mm: AF - yes. Aperture - yes<br />34mm: AF - no. Aperture - no<br />9mm + 17mm stacked: AF no. Aperture yes<br>

Most strange to me is that the 9mm and 17mm work individually with AF but not when stacked together. I have heard in the past about there being newer and older versions of these items which might explain this. Is that true? Can they be updated/modified?</p>

[michael_costello1]

<p>Yes I have heard of the older version of rings being upgraded to the PQ version but I am not sure if this also includes AF functionality. The newer rings I have for my 6008i have "System Rolleiflex 6000" on them.</p>

[michael_costello1]

<p>Here is a link that gives some detail on compatibility of the Hy6 and the older 6000 System parts. Looks like all the newer System Rolleiflex 6000 tubes should work. See below.<br>

<a href="http://www.rolleiflexpages.com/Hy6.html">http://www.rolleiflexpages.com/Hy6.htm</a>l</p>

<p><em>Compatibility with the Rolleiflex 6000 series</em> <em>system</em></p>

 

<blockquote>

<ul>

<li>the Schneider AF lenses, as well as non-AF Schneider and Zeiss lenses, can be used on condition they are of the PQ (Professional Quality) or PQS type (allowing 1/1000 sec shutter speed with the DirectDrive mechanism)</li>

<li>the 600X series 4560 film back can be used as it has a built-in motordrive, but a new adaptor is needed</li>

<li>the interchangeable screens for the ground glass can be used</li>

<li>the extension tubes, the extension bellows and retro-adaptor can be used</li>

<li>the 1.4X and 2X teleconvertors can be used</li>

<li>the 600X series prism finders and waist level finders cannot be used (but prism finders can be converted) - Hy6 specific models exist</li>

<li>the 600X series release cables and other electronic units cannot be used - Hy6 specific models exist</li>

<li>the 600X series 6060 film back cannot be used as it lacks a built-in motordrive - a Hy6 prototype model was presented at Photokina 2008</li>

</ul>

</blockquote>

 

[graham_mitchell]

<p>Well I checked and the 34mm extension is the only one without "System Rolleiflex 6000" written on it, so that explains that.<br>

However I'm still puzzled that the 9+17mm combination doesn't work properly when they both work individually.</p>

[graham_mitchell]

<p>Micahel, thanks for the link but that guide is a little over simplified. It doesn't mention the difference in compatibility between different versions of lenses and accessories. That's the kind of detail I'm looking for here.</p>

[geoffrey goldberg]

<p>Graham - <br>

I had a bit of trouble with the same, but traced some of it down to dirty contacts. Might that be part of the problem? But I haven't gone through and done the full analysis you have, so maybe I have some older ones too.</p>

[michael_costello1]

<p>Maybe you should send a PM to Tak Poon who is by default a subject matter expert when it comes to Rollie and the fact that he uses the same Hy6 camera you have and the 6008AF before that.<br>

He was very helpful with the questions I had regarding my 6008i. I am pretty sure he can add detail to your question. I would agree with Geoff that a good contact cleaner and swab might be the ticket to resolve the problem or at least rule that out as a factor.</p>

[erichiss]

<p>I understand from Reiner at DHW that the longar would work but that the AF might not work properly in all AF lenses and as such the AF-Longar is recommended for the Hy6 and AFi bodies. I had both and struggled to see what the differences were, except maybe different grounding of the electronics. <br>

As far as extension tubes - if they say ETxx they should work fully. <br>

Both older and newer versions of the bellows seem to work fine with my AFi (v3.10) as do the M39 shutter adapter and retro adapters. </p>

[graham_mitchell]

<p>Thanks, Eric.</p>

[tak_l_jasper_poon]

<p>Hi, i do not claim myself an expert. :D. i only speak from my experience. and i am still learning, as you can see from my postings a few days ago. :D but i am grateful for your compliments.<br>

but as far as i have experience with, i find that there are at least 5 eras/versions of these extension devices (close up bellows, multipliers, extension tubes, helical extension, reverse adapters) according to the connections. (i personally have 3 of 2x and 3 of 1.4x, helical and 2 bellows spanning all 5 eras)<br>

1. oldest version without the markings of system6000: these do not work with PQ or PQS lenses. when you use them with PQ lenses on 6008, the lenses behave like old lenses without aperture simulation function. there is no indication of aperture shown in camera. i have a 34mm extension tube of this era that has unstable on and off showing up of aperture.<br>

2. next version without markings of system6000: these were externally indistinguishable from the first version. but they were made when rollei was anticipating the launch of 6008. so they have incorporated the next generation wiring. theoretically they were identical to the next version internally. i don't know the dividing year and/or serial number. My bellow of this era has a bulky electric contact plate which actually blocks part of the field.<br>

3. first version with markings of system6000: these work with all PQ and PQS lenses the way it is designed: with open aperture metering. they also work with older so called HFT lenses on 6008. but of course they will not add PQ functions to these lenses.<br>

4. late version with markings of system6000: these work with AF lenses with AF functions.<br>

5. version with AF markings: these seem to be the latest version. they can be used with PQ and PQS lenses with full aperture functions.<br>

i have the schematics of updating version 1 to version 3. it includes only changing one ground contact. but i do not know how to upgrade them to AF function (or if that is possible). your 34mm extension tube probably was of the oldest version. your longar probably was of the early system6000 version.<br>

i heard at some time before 2002 the AF function was not finalized on the electric control mechanisms. if that is the case, then the focusing ring might move but it does not know where to stop when the extension device of this time was used with AF lenses.<br>

i have similar test results with my equipments and your results do make sense to me.<br>

cheers,<br>

Tak</p>

[tak_l_jasper_poon]

<p>by the way, for your 9+17 problem, try cleaning the contacts and see if they work together. Tak</p>

[graham_mitchell]

<p>Thanks, Tak. I'll try the cleaning but I have a feeling that if there was a dirty contact, the rings wouldn't work individually either.</p>

[tak_l_jasper_poon]

<p>finally for clarification i have only one 17mm extension tube of system6000 that does not give AF function. it could be that this particular one was just not functioning well rather than that there are early system6000 devices not working with AF. the truth will never be known unless i open it up. Tak</p>

[tak_l_jasper_poon]

<p>LOL i was thinking if the contacts were just a little bit dirty then stacking 9 and 17 would double the dirt!</p>

[geoffrey goldberg]

<p>Tak - <br>

Wonderful listing. You are making sense out of confusion. I suppose someone at DHW knew/knows all this, but it is really great to have this out in the open. Maybe this can help eplain my moody bellows where the 150 mm lens sometimes just cycles through its f stop preview as I move the bellows. Maybe wonky wiring connectors. </p>

[User_3607948]

<p>I'll throw in one more comment although it seems the subject has received a thorough discussion. The gold contacts have springs that allow them to rock in/out while mounting to the body or lens. So, a clean contact surface could fail because dirt or such impedes the spring force/contact. An aerosol contact cleaner would work in this instance by cleaning & blowing-out any debris. So, press the contacts lightly to make sure they move freely. </p>

[ondebanks]

<p>Tak,</p>

<p>Would it be accurate to say that your "5 generations" of accessories correspond to<br>

1. SLX<br>

2. 6006/2<br>

3. 6008/3<br>

4. 6008AF<br>

5. Hy6/AFi<br>

?<br>

I suggest this because your functionality descriptions match up to these camera generations.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Maybe this can help eplain my moody bellows</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Moody Bellows - weren't they a '60s British art-rock band? ;)</p>

[erichiss]

<p>Geoff,<br>

Moody bellows are common on the Rollei system - I've seen it on two of the three that I have had at different times. Probably also a contact issue - either on the lens mount side of the bellows or the body contacts because those have more spring movement. <br>

Eric</p>

 

[tak_l_jasper_poon]

<p>Ray: you have a good summary, i think. i guess no. 1 is SLX/6006;<br>

nos. 1 and 2 are the same in the markings but with different wiring inside<br>

nos. 2 and 3 differs in the markings but identical internally<br>

nos. 3 and 4 are the same in the markings but wirings may be different<br>

nos. 4 and 5 are different in the markings but wirings are the same.<br>

now we see a very logical and plausible evolution of this line of equipment.<br>

Tak.</p>

[tak_l_jasper_poon]

<p>Eric, most of my equipment acquired during the years of 6008SRC and 6008i are very moody. :D so moody that i had to keep a log of over 20 pages to remind myself which one was usable, which one was at a local engineer and which one was in Germany. it is still interesting to read it from time to time. :) Tak</p>

[geoffrey goldberg]

<p>Tak - that is worthy of a good chuckle. I feel better already. Thought it was just me. I've had such good luck with the lenses that it never seemed to be an issue, but as the stable expands, each item gets less use.</p>

[tak_l_jasper_poon]

<p>:) and i sometimes wonder what is the reason why i still only use rollei and no other brands for medium format even though they are so moody. of course this is off topic now. but i think the Hy6 is much more reliable than most versions of 6008 that i had owned. i never have any problem with it. Tak</p>