They contacted me - Prefered vendor

[jwakefield]

<p>I received this email in my inbox yesterday:<br>

<em>"Hi Jennifer, </em><br /><em>We met a few months ago at R & T's wedding at ___. I was looking through your site, particularly the shots of their wedding here and am in love!</em><br /><em></em><br>

<em>If you are interested I would love to talk to you about being one of our preferred vendors here at the lodge.</em><br /><br /><em>Feel free to contact me anytime. </em><br /><em>Thanks!"</em><br>

During the cocktail hour, I was shooting the reception hall decor and was chatting with the brides aunt and the bartender. I made if very clear that I was second shooting. Didn't give her my business name or cards. I replied that I would be interested and we are going to meet sometime next week here in town (venue is about an hour or so away). So here are my questions. <em></em><br>

1) I was second shooting that wedding. No contract between the two of us and a verbal agreement of "Do whatever you want with your images". Since the venue met me through the the main shooters wedding, do I need to inform them what-so-ever?"<br>

2) When I do meet with the Banquets & Events Manager, what should I have prepared? <br>

3) Do preferred vendors typically give discounts to clients booked through the venue?<br>

Thanks!</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Ugh...this is a tough one. I'd have to go with gut feel on the relationship between you and the primary.</p>

<p>However, and don't take this personally, it is possible the venue coordinator is mass e-mailing a bunch of vendors who have worked at the place lately to try and get some who will pay the venue a fee just to be a 'preferred' vendor--including the primary.</p>

<p>If your relationship with the primary is good, I would go full disclosure (probably would anyway), and with one of the goals being finding out whether the primary got an e-mail too. If all is good between you, the primary should not have a problem. But I'd be prepared for having to respond in the negative to the vendor coordinator, in case the primary did have a problem.</p>

<p>If all is fine, when you meet with the coordinator, have a portfolio. Otherwise, just listen to the offer. No need to make any kind of decision immediately.</p>

<p>There is no general procedure for preferred vendors re discounts to clients of the venue or the venue itself. Listen, and consider the fairness and business advantage to you, of what is suggested.</p>

[jwakefield]

<p>Yeah I had thought of that as well, but in the few emails we had back and forth she had brought up something that was unrelated to photography that we had discussed at the wedding and this was a while ago, so either they have a good memory or they truly sought me out. Still possible she is emailing others though.Never thought about a vendor fee, is there an average rate (totally clueless!)?<br>

As far as the first shooter, the relationship is good and I could be friends with them, but I do not want to really do business with them again. They keep asking me to partner up with them, but I don't want that. </p>

[picturesque]

<p>Again--seems you need to rely on your gut to figure this out. Also again--there isn't a typical vendor fee--you just have to figure out if you think a fee is fair.</p>

<p>As for the primary shooter, if she ever finds out about your becoming a preferred vendor 'through' one of her shoots, you may indeed get your wish about never doing business with her again. Just remember that your reputation among your peers must also be protected.</p>

[fotografz]

<p>Nadine is right, this is a tough one. </p>

<p>You really do gave to be careful to protect your professional reputation and maintain some integrity however you define that. Personally, I loosely define it as "Do unto others as I would have them do into me." </p>

<p>I also allow my assistants or second shooters to "do whatever they want with the images they take while working for me." However, in return every one of them (except one) have always included a credit or disclaimer that "these photos were taken while working for Marc Williams of Fotografz" It is a reciprocal professional courtesy based on mutual respect and an understanding that there is a lot more responsibilities in shooting a wedding than just taking the photos.</p>

<p>I'd most certainly contact the primary and make full disclosure just like you did here. That you did come here instead, makes me think you question it yourself.</p>

<p>If the primary has an issue, then you have to make up your mind if this would be okay with you if the roles were reversed.</p>

<p>Only then would I contact the venue and see what they had in mind, which will inform you as to what you need to provide ... like a whole wedding that you were solely responsible for starters. </p>

 

[david_rosenthal1]

<p>Jennifer,</p>

<p>This whole situation is brought about by the use of digital. Digital creates yet another problem illustrated for all to see, namely you're using images from somebody else's job on your web site. NOT a good idea to begin with! If you worked for me you'd be using my CF cards, and you would turn them over TO ME at the end of the job, just like a roll of film. Unfortunately who ever hired you didn't bother providing you with the cards that day, for if they had, this whole thread wouldn't even exist.</p>

<p>It sounds like the studio that hired you to be a second shooter hasn't been around a long time (I'm just guessing here). Because that studio had an open arrangement for you to be able to use some of the images doen't make it morally correct for you to work with this vendor (especially using the images that the main studio hired you to take).</p>

<p>Only you know what the right way to feel about this is. Having an image to show prospective clients in something other than electronic media that goes world-wide is one thing. Going behind the studio's back and working your own deal with the vendor is quite another. I'm with Marc---the fact that you even posted this here means to me that you have plenty of doubt and are looking for guidance.</p>

[daverhaas]

<p>I'm going to take a slightly different approach - because of 2 things - 1) no contract and 2) do whatever you want with the images. Unless I was very close to the primary, and work with them a lot - I would not call or email them. </p>

<p>1) I would meet with the vendor just to see what they are thinking. They saw your images, not the primary shooters and they want to talk to you. If you must mention it to the primary - do not ask if they got the same contact - If they didn't it would be very awkward for you to explain why you are asking. Just think of it like you and a friend going for an interview to the same job - and meeting each other while you are there. If you get called back for a 2nd interview - are you going to call your friend and ask - did you get a call back? I did! hmmm...</p>

<p>2) What to have prepared? - A portfolio of YOUR shots. Taken as both a 2nd and primary. If you have never been a primary - be upfront about that with the vendor. </p>

<p>3) Pricing - some vendors request a "placement" or referral fee. Others only request that if a client comes to you first, that you say "hey I know a great.... ". And they will do the same. If a couple comes in to the vendor - the vendor will ask - if you don't have a xxxx we have a list of reputable ones.... </p>

<p>Dave</p>

[jwakefield]

<p>Thanks everyone. I want to give a little back ground, not for excuses, but to give a better picture of the situation. <br>

I ALWAYS give credit to the first shooter whenever I post images where I was second shooting. The bride from this particular wedding hired the photographer via a web search, not through the venue, so the only way this photographer and the venue are connected is because that is where the wedding was (not sure if that makes a difference). I've shot two weddings with this particular person and the first time, I thought it was a fluke, the second time I realized they were just inexperienced and unprofessional (wearing jeans with their butt hangin out, inappropriate shirt, on their phone looking at posing/ANSWERING the phone, inappropriate jokes, etc). Not a quick turn around time (promise 4-6 weeks, it's been 11 and the bride is posting on there FB asking where her images are).<br>

The reason I am hesitant to mention it to the first shooter is because they keep wanting to become a partnership and I just do not agree with their business practices. Nice person, but unprofessional. The more I get to know this person, the more I feel I should cut ties.<br>

We are also live 2 hours away from each other and the venue is 3.5hrs from them. Again, not sure if that makes any sort of difference.<br>

Marc - It's not that I question myself at all. I've just never had a venue approach me to be a vendor, and never have had anyone contact me when I was just a second shooter. They had to really look for me to find out I was there that day, as I just my first name and the first shooters information. So just looking for advise from the more experienced :)<br>

Thanks again everyone.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>With the new information, I would quietly just meet with the venue coordinator just to hear what she or he has to say. I'd try to figure out if this was the real deal or they were just trying to get any vendor to pay a fee to be a preferred vendor. I'd consider everything after the meeting and then decide my course of action.</p>

<p>If what you say is true regarding the primary photographer, he or she will not appreciate any professional courtesy afforded them anyway. Let us know what you find out regarding the venue.</p>

[fotografz]

<p>Ditto.</p>

<p>And be careful that they aren't just trying to get free photos of their venue without at least a credit, since you did say you shot those.<br>

That is where it can get dicey, since it wasn't your gig ... although it seems the primary probably wouldn't care. </p>

[wedding-photography-denver]

<p>I would inform the primary photographer at that wedding. Any other course is just selfish ambition and lacks integrity.</p>

<p>I don't mean to be harsh saying that, but I do believe it to be true no matter how poorly the primary performs, or what other circumstances apply.</p>

[ianivey]

<p>I disagree that excluding the primary is poor form, given the circumstances: 1) no agreement not to pursue vendor relationships, 2) no attempt on the part of the second/OP to establish this contact, 3) no restriction on use of images, and 4) distance from the primary's home turf. I don't think the primary's apparent lack of professionalism is relevant; the question is whether integrity requires that the OP consult with or even defer to the primary, and I think the answer is no.</p>

<p>Many people, probably including the OP, second-shoot principally to build a portfolio, make contacts, learn the ropes, and eventually begin shooting as a primary. Establishing a network of vendor relationships is vital to that objective, and can be properly accomplished by meeting vendors as a second, communicating roles clearly and honestly, and, if permissible, following up in accordance with the agreement between the primary and the second. There's usually a significant difference in experience and target market between a primary and a second, limiting overlap so long as the experience differences are made clear to a potential client.</p>

<p>Here, the primary neither established nor even implied any expectation that the second would not establish relationships with vendors local to the second (and remote to the primary). It seems only reasonable for the primary to have expected such a result. </p>

<p>When I second shoot for others in my locale, I am careful to determine what the primary's expectations are about whether I am allowed to self-identify and build relationships. I never approach clients or guests with anything but the primary's business card, but vendors are an entirely different matter, because they understand the industry and know the difference between the work of a second and that of a primary. </p>

<p>The fact that the OP did nothing to solicit the inquiry from the vendor further indicates that the vendor is adequately sophisticated, and is likely interested in networking locally. Therefore, the OP is probably taking no value from the primary by responding. And even if she were, there was no expectation to the contrary.</p>

[rita_bruner]

<p>Hello, I'm new to this forum and ran across your posting. I am an event photographer who has photographed weddings to equine events. When I get a call from a person representing an establishment who is interested in garnering my services for their potential clients/customers, I advise them when a meeting takes place that I would be very happy to give them certain photos they can use for promotional purposes. These are given in lieu of monies. Of course it never fails to happen that the person or persons who work there eventually use my photographic services for their own personal needs. Now being a good PR person I can be, lol, I give that person a discount on their photos. That keeps them in your backyard and on the "tip of their tongue" when an opportunity arises. </p>

[jwakefield]

<p>So I met with them today, again let them know that I was the second shooter at the wedding and needed to run it by the first shooter before I accept anything. They said they really loved my images and felt I captured the essence of the venue. They want to be able to use the images with my logo on their site, possibly on the corporate site (they are a small resort within a large company that has resorts all over the US), and on The Knot. No fee to me and no fee to shoot non-wedding clients there. I'm going to talk with the first shooter tonight and see how it goes :/ Thank you everyone for your replies.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Good luck to you, Jennifer!</p>

<p>I think you're doing the honorable thing by notifying the primary shooter. I hope it goes well for you.</p>

[jwakefield]

<p>All that stress for nothing! She's totally fine with the situation.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Cool. Go for it!</p>

[pavl_kay]

<p>Jennifer, the only integrity you have is to yourself. If the images this person fell in love with were shot by you, you should accept the offer to meet. I doubt the venue's opinion would be swayed either way if they found out you were working for someone else on the day. </p>