After hours entrance - White Sands Desert, NM

[anil_sud]

<p>I plan to be in White Sands Desert, New Mexico this winter and wondered if anyone knows of how to obtain access to the desert before the park gates open at 7 am.<br>

I've heard that a fee can be paid to the park's personnel to arrange an earlier arrival but wondered if anyone has actually been successful at negotiating such a request, and if so, who specifically needs to be approached. If this is feasible, what is the customary fee for requesting access as such. <br>

If the gates to the desert open at 7am, it would be nice to be able to drive in by 530-600 am to secure an undisturbed location away from footprints well before sunrise.<br>

Thanks.</p>

[david_daniel]

<p>You can get a permit to shoot after/before hours (and commercial photography) at pretty much any National Park or Monument. You should talk to the Park Supervisor, just call the park plenty of time in advance and ask them for the procedures. I recently did this at Ft Union NM in New Mexico. I paid a few to cover having a Ranger present after hours so I could shoot the Fort at the 'golden' hour. Got very lucky. There was a storm with very black clouds, lightening, rainbow, and late sun coming out under the clouds. Took me about 3 weeks to get permission. </p><div></div>

[gulfbeach47]

<p>Anil, glad you asked. I was planning to go there next spring to do some night photography. After shooting a lot of night photos at Yellowstone and the Tetons last year, I just figured that White Sands was open after dark. Checking their website I see that David is correct. You have to pay to play. ''<strong> </strong>The Monument may be entered prior to normal opening time or left after normal closing time with the completion of this paperwork. A $50 per hour charge is required for this service. After hours use may be limited due to staff availability and missile test schedules. Allow three business days for processing.'' http://www.nps.gov/whsa/parkmgmt/permits-for-special-park-uses.htm <br>

<strong>Anyone know if there are areas next to the park that have the dunes that can be accessed at night?</strong><br>

We have the Gulf Island National Seashore in my area and it is also closed at night unless you buy a Night Owl pass. It is $30.00 a year and well worth it.</p>

 

[User_2000406]

<p>The dunes next to the park are in the White Sands Missile Range. Entry not allowed and not advised. Trespass would be a *very* bad idea.</p>

[dan_south]

<p>I have heard that the park sometimes has a delayed opening due to military maneuvers nearby, so you might want to plan a flexible schedule. If you plan only one day for the visit, you might be disappointed by such operational snafus.</p>

<p>The park's website has more information.</p>

[gulfbeach47]

<p>I'm just surprised that there are no areas at all near the White Sands park or missile range that also has the dunes. That was going to be the main reason for my trip to this area. I have seen some wonderful photos of the dunes but most are shot in the daytime. I specifically want to do night shots. Isn't there a road running along side to some areas around the 275 sq mile area park where you can park and walk to the dunes or is this strictly forbidden?<br>

Is this the only ''inland area'' in the USA with the large white dunes?</p>

<p>I live on the gulf coast and we have very white dunes, but they are small and access to the dunes is limited. We are not allowed to go on the dunes in the federal parks, since they are on barrier islands, which help protect the mainland. Most of the dunes in non-protected areas were mowed down for condos and other beach development. At our local Gulf Island National Seashore it cost to get in, but you can just park outside the gate at night and walk in or walk in along the beach at any time of day w/out paying.</p>

[User_2000406]

<p>John,<br>

 <br>

When White Sands National Monument was established in 1933 it included only some of the dunes- 115 square miles of park (mostly dunes) out of a total of 275 square miles of dune.  The dunes are in a remote desert valley, so nearly 3200 square miles of the surrounding area was selected in 1945 for what was then called the White Sands Proving Ground and what is now called the White Sands Missile Range, the largest military base in the U.S. It was originally used for the first nuclear detonation so they reserved a *very* large test area for this top-secret military program.<br>

 <br>

As a result of that and the establishment of the adjacent Holloman Air Force Base, the national monument is surrounded almost entirely by military bases which in all cases extend miles beyond the edge of the sand dunes.  There are no sand dunes in the area that are not inside either the national monument or the missile range.  The only roads open to the public there are U.S. Highway 70 and the roads in the monument.  Please go to the Park Service website at http://www.nps.gov/whsa/index.htm and click on "view map" for a zoomable map of the area that shows this situation graphically.<br>

 <br>

These are the only dunes of their sort in the U.S. as they are made of gypsum.  The white sands on the Gulf coast are made of regular sand that is fairly white but is not the same thing.  You can look up various dunes across the western U.S. and use Google Images to see what they look like (subject to photo alteration, of course) and that may help you find dunes that are fairly white.<br>

 <br>

I can't speak to the relative whiteness of the numerous dune systems in the west other than White Sands (the others ones I've seen just seem light-colored and I couldn't tell you which ones are lighter), but I can suggest a few areas of spectacular dunes worth seeing:<br>

-Great Sand Dunes National Park in southern Colorado, a giant dunefield with the tallest dunes in the U.S. and backstopped by the rugged and forested Rocky Mountains (more specifically, the beautiful Sangre de Christo Range).<br>

-Kelso Dunes in southern California, the second-highest dunes, found in a remote valley near the rugged Granite and Providence Mountains within the Mojave National Preserve.  They can be viewed from a paved road but to get close you need to take a dirt road.<br>

-Eureka Dunes in east-central California near Death Valley (actually within the enormous park, but still a lengthy and bone-jarring drive by eastern standards). These dunes are backstopped by the rugged Last Chance Range, a bone-dry range of dark rock that contrasts strongly with the light-colored dunes.  Unlike the well-known Mesquite San Dunes in the park, they receive relatively little visitation and are unlikely to be covered with a million footprints. If you go, be sure to bring lots of water and emergency supplies, and be prepared for long stretches of washboarded gravel road. Only for the adventurous.<br>

-Oregon Dunes National Recreation Area on the Oregon coast. These enormous dunefields are more likely to have cloudy weather than the other sites and are not backed by high mountains, but still offer many photographic opportunities.<br>

 <br>

There are many other dune systems out there, many quite obscure and often quite remote.  Take care when getting off paved roads- do some research beforehand on backcountry safety, be properly equipped, and know what precautions to take.  Several people have died in recent years because they got in over their heads on backcountry roads.  In particular, have a good map of the local area and do not rely on a GPS unit to tell you how to get from here to there as it may lead you on a road that becomes impassable, leaving you stuck.<br>

 <br>

That said, the roads in White Sands National Monument are all easy and safe.<br>

 </p>

[anil_sud]

Thanks to everyone for posting a response.

[gulfbeach47]

<p>Bill, I was still thinking of headed to White Sands and once again came across this thread. I don't know if this thread will bump back into existence, since it has been a year, but thanks for all the info. I am hoping to finally make my trip next week. White Sands does not look like it will work for my purposes, but the Great Sand Dunes National Park may work if it is not too cold. I see the forecast for next week is in the 20's at night. Brrrrrrr... <br>

By the way, you mentioned that our white sands here on the Gulf coast are made of regular sand. Actually much of the white sand here in the Panhandle (Pensacola to Panama City) is made from quartz crystal. It is very white and squeaks when you walk on it. Beautiful, but nasty for camera gear when the wind is blowing. http://www.johnhillphotography.com/Perdido-Key-Photos/SUNSETS-BEACH-SCENES/7451328_z9gPs2/1/481115948_dpu3k/Medium</p>

[User_2000406]

<p>John, I hope your trip works out. I was happy to provide information since I had just been to White Sands and had just learned about the local land situation. I got there as early as I could in the morning and found it to be fascinating and very beautiful, but the lighting still was too flat to make for particularly interesting photography. The idea of getting in extra-early (like before dawn) makes sense but at $50 per hour it would be better and more efficient to share the cost with others.</p>

<p>Also, what I meant by "regular sand" was small particles of rock (which can have a quite wide color range from near-white to near-black) as opposed to the fragmented gypsum precipitate found at White Sands. According to Encyclopedia Britannica Online, "Most windblown sand on the Earth is composed of quartz" (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/521932/sand-dune) so quartz dunes are not unusual. I'm going to speculate that your Gulf coast dunes may have a higher percentage of quartz than average and thus be whiter than most. </p>

[Rick Waller]

<p>I have found that best light to shoot White Sands is in late day, rather than at first light. Therefore, if you choose to pay a fee for after hours, I would consider late rather than early.<br>

The sand is indeed snow white; in fact, in many of my shots (especially those with drifts surrounding split rail fences), the scene looks as though it was shot during a winter snow storm. As a matter of fact, to continue the analogy, the place is filled with young and old using snow saucers to "sled" down the dunes. Only difference is seeing the people in shorts and sandals rather than in winter clothes. another thing that seems incongruous is that the park service using regular snow plows mounted on trucks to keep the loop road clear of the drifting "snow". It just seems weird to view an landscape that "feels" like you are watching a winter wonderland when the temperature is pushing 100 degrees F.<br>

I find that black and white processing is quite effective in shooting at White Sands. Here is a shot both color and b+w. The B+W one is the one that sells.</p>

<p><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xxXNoJX5cTU/TAPaXqFFHoI/AAAAAAAABVc/sMXqVY1w8nw/s640/_DSC7569webcopy.jpg" alt="" /><br>

<img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kq5vEFdSYik/TAPaXT9WoLI/AAAAAAAABVc/JLC0ta-uD1s/s640/_DSC7569charlie%2520BW%2520WEB.jpg" alt="" width="640" height="512" /></p>

 

[anil_sud]

<p>Thanks...I was there in February and decided to take the early entry fee option for 2 reasons. Generally, I found that winds coming up overnight often erased any footprints providing for a clean slate to work with. Evening shoots were much more problematic from tracks created by daytime visitors. Second, the park opens the gates right at sunrise. This meant a mad dash to drive down to the end of the park and then hiking in 15-20 minutes into the dunes resulting in precious minutes wasted commuting (~45 minutes) and looking for the right scene. I found the 1 hour early entry gave me plenty of time to walk in and scout out an appropriate location before the sun hit the horizon. <br>

I chose not to pay for a late exit fee since the park gates don't close until 1 hour after sunset. I found that I would have about 25 minutes after sunset to shoot and provided that I made a beeline to the park gates right that, there was just enough time to exit before the evening closure. Usually, the light on the dunes became so flat within 10 - 15 minutes post sunset, there wasn't much to be achieved by staying later. <br>

So my advice to visitors choosing to pay an extended hours fee would be to opt for a early morning entry. <br>

Oh, 2 other things: 1) I was able to obtain the entry permit with only 1 or 2 days notice and it only required a minor bit of paperwork. The fee was $50 per hour. 2) A park employee would meet me at the gates about 15 minutes before the scheduled time of arrival so I had a few minutes extra to play with. They will wait there if you are late but only up until the scheduled time of entry. As well, there is no way to contact the park employee after hours, so if you decide the night before to cancel due to a dust storm, bad weather, etc. you forfeit the prepaid fee. The same applies if you just don't show up. </p>

[anil_sud]

<p>Thanks...I was there in February and decided to take the early entry fee option for 2 reasons. Generally, I found that winds coming up overnight often erased any footprints providing for a clean slate to work with. Evening shoots were much more problematic from tracks created by daytime visitors. Second, the park opens the gates right at sunrise. This meant a mad dash to drive down to the end of the park and then hiking in 15-20 minutes into the dunes resulting in precious minutes wasted commuting (~45 minutes) and looking for the right scene. I found the 1 hour early entry gave me plenty of time to walk in and scout out an appropriate location before the sun hit the horizon. <br>

I chose not to pay for a late exit fee since the park gates don't close until 1 hour after sunset. I found that I would have about 25 minutes after sunset to shoot and provided that I made a beeline to the park gates right that, there was just enough time to exit before the evening closure. Usually, the light on the dunes became so flat within 10 - 15 minutes post sunset, there wasn't much to be achieved by staying later. <br>

So my advice to visitors choosing to pay an extended hours fee would be to opt for a early morning entry. <br>

Oh, 2 other things: 1) I was able to obtain the entry permit with only 1 or 2 days notice and it only required a minor bit of paperwork. The fee was $50 per hour. 2) A park employee would meet me at the gates about 15 minutes before the scheduled time of arrival so I had a few minutes extra to play with. They will wait there if you are late but only up until the scheduled time of entry. As well, there is no way to contact the park employee after hours, so if you decide the night before to cancel due to a dust storm, bad weather, etc. you forfeit the prepaid fee. The same applies if you just don't show up. </p>