Tank / hand-processing of Kodachrome?

[JDMvW]

<p>I have one roll of K25 that I overlooked at the end. It is exposed, but I am planning eventually to process it as B&W. There are instructions here and elsewhere on the internet (what isn't on the internet, after all).</p>

[seandepuydt]

<p>Eli, you should go to APUG. Photo Engineer worked for Kodak developing films. There are lots of post about this very thing.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>No it is a common Fertilizer...</p>

 

[erik_prestmo]

<p>Agfa had their C41 process normalized for 20C, it was published. I doubt you could tell 80 million germans that their pictures sucked.... But 17 million of those germans knew what sucked, the old east german ORWO process and even worse the russian Svet process, I have had the dougtful experience of developing Svet films myself with east-block chemistry from small kits...</p>

[erik_prestmo]

<p>Eli just walk over to my blog, there in the archives is how I did KC myself with home-mixed chemistry.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Eric that was C-22.</p>

[Mike Gammill]

<p>If one had basic knowledge of the general chemical structure of the Kodachrome dyes, one might through trial and error eventually create them. IMHO, though, I think the infinite number of monkeys typing out all of Shakespeare's plays might be more likely, though. ;) <br>

However, someone at EK must know the formulas used, but getting them to reveal them is also unlikely I would guess. Whatever the outcome, though, good luck with your project.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>I do know one was Cyanide in the mix.. for all of the Kodachromes.. It was a problem....</p>

[erik_prestmo]

<p>Naaaa Larry I have some internal AGFA literature here, dated 1979, outlining their color-negative process, says 20 centigrade, Agfa went with C41 the same time as Kodak AFAIK.<br>

But ORWO did keep the old Agfa process running - the old Agfa plant was in Wolfen (ORiginal WOlfen).</p>

 

[john_shriver]

<p>US Patent 3,658,525 is the entire K-14 process.<br /> Problem is you need a serious organic chemist to synthesize the dyes, and perhaps some of the other chemical ingredients. They were only ever used for Kodachrome, and there is no commercial source of them anymore. <br /> Note that the patent doesn't say how to <em>make</em> the chemicals. That was a Kodak trade secret.<br>

Engineers did "sink line" the Kodachrome process at Kodak. It is possible, with the chemistry.<br>

Realize that many of the former Kodachrome processing plant sites are now "Superfund Sites".</p>

[eli_fedele]

<p>@Erik - link me to your blog, I'll be sure to check it out. Is that B&W or color? I'm assuming B&W.<br>

This leaves me a lot of thinking to do.<br>

Are there any other standardized processes that do not rely on emulsion-bound dyes (that is, you have to add the dyes)? <br>

You may see where I'm going with this - is it possible to shift the dyes from one process to the other? Theoretically, it should work. The silver is the same, and use of a compatible developer...My mind tells me yes, but experience isn't around to comment.</p>

[eli_fedele]

<p>@John - if I were to get the chemicals, making them or however, substitution w/e,<br>

would the K-14 process be "in vitro" compatible by tanking, or would it ABSOLUTELY require a processing line?</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Erik I know I used to import the chems through Australia to the US in what we called KoKo Kits.... Even East German C-41 ended up C-41 a few years later.... The problem is the color/colour shift you get with lower temp and extended times... :-)</p>

[erik_prestmo]

<p>Larry thats why they hired chemical engineers! And threw a million bucks at them....<br /><br />So many engineers employed at Kodak and so little worthwhile for their efforts, they should (also) have done a few simple projects like putting out a C41 kit @ 20C with NO false colors and color shifts and color crossovers and whatnot, instead of all the shit they brought forth :<br />Instamatic, Pocket Instamatic, Kodak Disc, and the ultimate last straw APS....<br /><br />That would have faciliated home prcessing for the enthusiasts, creating a stronger more loyal customer base, instead of trying to just lock the moms and dads into their evergrowing chain of picture plants....<br /><br />And while at it, done something similar for Kodachrome, I used Chibachrome in the darkroom for a while, it was a revelation, immacculate picture quality, nearly KC quality from the colornegative films of the day..... and it was said to be poisonous as hell, actually the kit came with warnings against putting the chemicals down the drain....</p>

[eli_fedele]

<p>Did you have to add the dyes, or were they embedded?</p>

[erik_prestmo]

<p>Eli the blog can be found at <br /><br /><a href="http://www.ascorbate-developers.blogspot.com/">www.ascorbate-developers.blogspot.com</a><br /><br />From what I have seen the K 14 is a running line operation, but I haven't seen anything in the process the REQURES a running line, anything can be done in a tank, it's just a matter of scale.<br /><br />Thuinking opposite setting up a running process for anything at home, from scratch would probably be a lot harder than doing K 14 in a tank...</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>LOL Erik You are talking not only Temp and time changes you are also talking a chemical change to make one element react with another at a given temp..... ISO and it was universal... Temp included.... It would have been another standard and patent based on what Kodak created.. And we see in the news where the Android Microsoft Apple thing is... :)</p>

[Mike Howard]

<p>Eli, if you are serious about his, and it sounds like you are, you need to head over to apug.org, and pick the brain of one Rowland Mowrey. Also known there as Photo Engineer. As John eluded to above, though, you may need to "rediscover" the dye couplers. Good luck, and I have two rolls of unexposed Kodachrome 64 I will donate to the cause.</p>

[erik_prestmo]

<p>Na Larry the general idea was that Kodak should have done that themselves, with their guys and technology, and cultured photography and the enthusiasts....<br /><br />There was a time when a lot of people covetted Kodak cameras....Retina's for instance, a time when Kodak products was right up there on tier one, instead we got shit like Instamatics and the rest.<br /><br />Kodak was at one time in history the worlds most rcognized brand...there was Kodak sign outside stores all over the world, even in east block countries.<br /><br />Its all gone now, we don't se any signs now, and the signs themselves have become museum pieces.... the youngsters have never HEARD of Kodak, and they closed down their operation in this country 5 years ago....<br /><br />But theyt sure still have many secret processes....</p>

[erik_prestmo]

<p>Links to the KC patents :<br /><br /><a href="http://www.apug.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-64209.html">http://www.apug.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-64209.html</a></p>

[larrydressler]

<p>I see this is going to get the man no place . And in those days most of us loved doing our own E4-E6. When the world was simple and the cops used to say... Damn Larry that was a nice model rocket you built we recovered it 80 miles away.</p>

[eli_fedele]

<p>Just got online at APUG.org and sent Photo Engineer a message about the specifics.<br>

@Michael - thanks, and that would be an absolutely huge help should I get some more confidence regarding this project.<br>

I will make sure to keep everyone posted (probably over this thread) about everything, especially what I hear back about it. Obviously, in the rare chance this does work, I will post full documentation about exactly how I did everything.</p>

 

[User_502260]

<p>PQ stands for Phenidone/Hydroquinone. There is no phenidone in D-76. Agfa did not go to C-41 as soon as Kodak did. This nearly caused Agfa to go out of business long before its consumer division folded. </p>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>Kodak should put everything into the public domain</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br />It already is... and has been for years.</p>

[jack_the_hat]

<p>I really can't see the point in this exercise. What's the point in going to all this trouble if Kodachrome has been discontinued? I could understand it if the film was still in production but it's not. Just shoot E6 and be happy.</p>