wenhan_xue Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 <p>The technology of DSLR is at its bottle neck stage. I have tried D3s and liked the camera a lot. But given the price, size and depreciation factors, I passed on. At the same time, I wonder how Nikon and Canon can roll out a new model with big improvement. To me, the answer is no. With the introduction of V1 and J1 by Nikon, I can see they are changing the direction, and DSLR will soon be on the down hill track if not immediately.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ad12345 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 <p>Let me see... you're shooting 50 weddings a year with one FX body that has 170,000+ clicks on it? That's a bit too monastic for your own good. A D300 is a good camera - but your glass is probably geared to FX and the D300 is at least one or two stops worse than the D700 in terms of noise/DR/color etc, you won't shoot the event the same way as you would with a D700 and will be giving your clients less than your best.<br> My $0.02 worth - You've put it off long enough. Get some insurance. If you buy a D3s now it will still be taking incredible photos for you in 2 or 3 years time when you have run it up to 200,000 clicks. I'm guessing that when the D4 comes out it will be months before the backlog is satisfied and you can be assured you will get one. In addition, every new product has some sort of teething problems - even Nikons and you probably couldn't afford to send your shiny new D4 back if some sort of recall were to happen. My guess is that Nikon's pro service would probably struggle to keep everybody happy in that situation. They would do triage and support the folks that buy two or more bodies a year ahead of the folks that buy one body every two years. They would have to.<br> If you can't find a dealer in the US with any D3s bodies in stock, I think you can still find a D3s here: <a href="https://www.thecamerastore.com/products/cameras/digital-cameras/digital-slr-cameras/nikon-d3s-body">https://www.thecamerastore.com/products/cameras/digital-cameras/digital-slr-cameras/nikon-d3s-body</a></p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_holman1 Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 <p>Ok, decision made. I think I knew it all along, but needed some final advice. My D700 served me well and I liked the D300 - but time to move on. I ordered a D3s and and pretty damn excited. I will probably get the D4 when it comes out anyway, and the D3s will be a great 2nd. :-)<br> Thanks for the feedback!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 <p>The D3S will give you at least another stop at high ISO, perhaps a bit more. I am sure that is helpful for weddings. When I tested the original D3, I shot a wedding with it and my arm was a little sore after a full day holding the D3 with a 24-70 and 70-200mm/f2.8 AF-S.</p> <p>I still would suggest Andrew to get the shutter on the D700 replaced. It should be easier once you have the D3S as your main camera.</p> <p>And as soon as Andrew's D3S is no longer new and therefore not returnable, Nikon will announced the D4, perhaps later on this month .... :-) I am pretty sure that there will be a D4 before the London Olympics in 2012.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breogan_gomez Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 <p>Shun, spreading rumours? You should ban yourself... ;P</p> <p>One question, if D3s was the latests FX body on the market, how comes that is becoming obsolete? If someone else brings more features then I would agree, until then the D3s is the state of the art.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 <p><em> I ordered a D3s and and pretty damn excited.</em></p> <p>Good for you! I have seen amazing quality from that camera in concert photos at ISO 6400. It also has the quiet mode which is nice to have when there is a moment of silence indoors and you don't want to disrupt it any more than necessary. (No, it won't still be as quiet as a D7000 or a mirrorless camera, but still an improvement.)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 <blockquote> <p>One question, if D3s was the latests FX body on the market, how comes that is becoming obsolete?</p> </blockquote> <p>I wouldn't describe the D3S as "obsolete," but given that the D7000 and even D5100 can shoot 1080p HD video while the D3S is 720p, and the D7000/D5100 have much better contrast-detect AF for live view and video, it is clear that the D3S' technology, at least in the video area, is no longer state of the art.</p> <p>At least based on the description, the V1 and J1 have even better constrast-detect AF. I am looking forward to seeing how Nikon applies such technology on their (high-end) DSLRs. Hopefully I'll get to test a J1/V1 soon.</p> <p>In this high-tech era, 4 years is an eternity. The Canon 1Ds Mark III was introduced like 4 days before the D3 back in August 2007. With 4 more years of technological advances, I am sure that both Canon and Nikon will produce much improved cameras to succeed those two.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Contrast detect AF requires the mirror to be out of the way. If it is to be used for still photography that means the camera will be with an EVF or a hybrid EVF/OVF. I personally am not ready to have the windscreen of my car replaced with an LCD, either, but this is what I expect to see in a D4. I would prefer to see the optical viewfinder improved, instead. In particular I would like them to take out the LCD overlay alltogether so that the crispness of the optical image is restored and manual focus and visual confirmation of focus is restored. This is exactly the kind of development that some are worried about - the still camera is sacrificed for improved video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 <p>To clarify, I think that the contrast and phase-detect hybrid AF is an exciting prospect for some applications of still photography; the focus point can be selected more freely and the electronic viewfinder may show e.g. the color histogram and the image at the same time. Nikon even has a patent on a VF which utilizes a secondary lens that shows a wider angle of view than the primary lens. This allows the photographer to see the main image in the center and a "zoomed-out" image around it so that they can better predict movement into the frame before it happens e.g. in soccer. But I wonder how good the quality of the viewfinder image will be. I think it would be better if they made one model with the hybrid AF and hybrid VF, and another, which is a more traditional DSLR for those of us who prefer a high-quality, delay-free optical image and preferably no overlay that would reduce the brigtness and clarity of the optical viewfinder image. The fast model (i.e. D4H could be the one with the hybrid AF) and then the more still-oriented camera (D4X) would be with high-resolution sensor and OVF only. But I suspect Nikon is primarily interested in the action photography market and everything is centered around it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 <p>Andrew said:</p> <blockquote> <p>I ordered a D3s and and pretty damn excited.</p> </blockquote> <p>Congrats! You're gonna love it! You can shoot clouds at night at ISO 5,000, handheld, and still be satisfied with the image. I'm sure the D4 won't be readily available until summer 2012. Who knows? They may increase the pixels and lose a half-stop of sensitivity, and the D3s will be as hard to find used at a decent price as a used SB-800! Enjoy your new camera!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_holman1 Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 <p>Thanks all! It should be here tomorrow or Tuesday.<br> I have heard the same projections from dealers and insiders about the D4 as well - spring 2012 announcement and a summer availability. Makes sense with the issues that Japan had recently.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breogan_gomez Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 <blockquote> <p>Who knows? They may increase the pixels and lose a half-stop of sensitivity, and the D3s will be as hard to find used at a decent price as a used SB-800! Enjoy your new camera!</p> </blockquote> <p>Ralph, may be I wrong, but I think it is safe to say that Nikon won't be presenting a D4 if it isn't a substantial leap forward respect the previous model. One only has to look at the F3, F4, F5, D1, D2, D3 progression. Each one of them was a tremendous improvement over the previous.</p> <p>Also we have to think about the D3 average user which is a full time professional. Nobody is going to spend some thousands dollars to buy a D4 if the features are similar to the D3.</p> <p>Its my impression, again I could be wrong, that the D3s/D3x production cycle it is going to be longer than the D1 and D2 models. I see those as transitional models and D3 models more "finished". Sure they have some issues in video mode but they are hard to fault for still photography.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 <p>Breogan said:</p> <blockquote> <p>Ralph, may be I wrong, but I think it is safe to say that Nikon won't be presenting a D4 if it isn't a substantial leap forward respect the previous model. One only has to look at the F3, F4, F5, D1, D2, D3 progression. Each one of them was a tremendous improvement over the previous.</p> </blockquote> <p>I would tend to agree.</p> <blockquote> <p>Also we have to think about the D3 average user which is a full time professional. Nobody is going to spend some thousands dollars to buy a D4 if the features are similar to the D3.</p> </blockquote> <p>Again, agreed.</p> <blockquote> <p>Its my impression, again I could be wrong, that the D3s/D3x production cycle it is going to be longer than the D1 and D2 models. I see those as transitional models and D3 models more "finished". Sure they have some issues in video mode but they are hard to fault for still photography.</p> </blockquote> <p>Yes, I totally agree. I actually think Nikon is going to keep the D700 and D3s as current-production models for longer than most would like to think, especially in light of information contained in a certain recent rumor.</p> <p>I think Nikon will release two more FX bodies within the next several months, but they may not necessarily be D700 and D3s <em>replacements</em>, per se. They may only be higher-MP competitors to current and expected Canon bodies, and will have the dual purpose of also closing the video gap created by Canon.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 <p>Ralph, I am sure Nikon will introduce a D4 very soon, at least 6 months prior to the London Olympics to work out the bugs before the big event. That will not be a D3S "replacement"; instead, it will be a D3S killer and all of those recent D3S you guys paid $5200+ for will immediately become obsolote and worthless. I have been telling people all along to hold off buying those D3S, but you guys didn't listen. :-)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breogan_gomez Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 <p>Shun, If you are right it won't be long before we find out... As a strict amateur I am extremely happy with my D200, no worries here. ;-P</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_holman1 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 <p>Obsolete and worthless? So, with that logic all of the shots taken with a D3s are the same?</p> <p>For me it is a tool that makes me money and supports my family. A 5K body is nothing compared to the money that my clients drop for a wedding. It would be hard for me to explain to them after a camera failure that I didn't have a newer camera with less shutter actuations because I was waiting for the latest and greatest. I would gladly spend 10K to avoid that pain and stress.</p> <p>I have a feeling that this D3s will serve me quite well for several years, and when the D4 gets announced - you better believe I will be taking advantage of my NPS membership and pre-ordering. But, I am not holding my breath or feeling like I am missing out on something.</p> <p>I have been hearing these, "D4 coming soon!" rumors for so long now that I don't believe what anyone says/heard/predicts anymore. I just got tired of waiting and rather than get 2 D4's, I'll have a crappy D3s as my backup/2nd body. :-)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 <p>Shun said:</p> <blockquote> <p>That will not be a D3S "replacement"; instead, it will be a D3S killer and all of those recent D3S you guys paid $5200+ for will immediately become obsolote and worthless. I have been telling people all along to hold off buying those D3S, but you guys didn't listen. :-)</p> </blockquote> <p>Damn! I just knew I shouldn't have bought that crummy 'ole D3s, when a D4 was right around the corner. Seriously, I expect an impressive effort on Nikon's part with their next flagship FX body, a.k.a., a 'D4.' I also expect a rather impressive price. Perhaps as much as $6,400 USD?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_holman1 Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 <p>Initial impressions: The D3s is a beast. Not new news, I know, but for me and the work I do it *SMOKES* the D700 in every sense. The faster and more accurate focus, the low light image quality, the faster drive, brighter viewfinder, the ergonomics...I could go on. It just <em>sounds</em> more professional. Well worth 5K. I now use the D700 with my 70-200 but almost want a 2nd D3s to replace it. Of course I'll hold off and wait for the D4 announcement - but wow, what an improvement. For landscape or casual shooting the D700 is wonderful, but for anything action critical (basically shooting anything that moves) - the D3s is the way to go.</p> <p>The D3s allows me to capture images that the D700 would fail to do. I always felt like the D700 was underperforming and wondered if upgrading would be an improvement, and without a doubt it is/was.</p> <p>I have the grip for my D700 and the D3s are actually quite comparable in weight and size, at least to me it is. In fact, the D3s is actually a bit <em>smaller</em> than the D700 w/ grip.</p> <p>Wish I would have upgraded a long time ago. Now - bring on that D4!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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