Good ball head for Gitzo tripod

[tdigi]

<p>I wanted a good setup that would be sturdy and portable and while its over my intended budget I ended up with a Gitzo 2541 but now I am trying to find a good ball head without breaking the bank. In the past I really never used a tripod very often but I want to start doing some landscapes and time exposures.<br>

I would appreciate any suggestions and experience. In the past I have only used a Manfrotto 190 pro b with a pretty standard manfrotto ballhead. </p>

<p>Thanks</p>

[david_henderson]

<p>You need to say what type of camera (eg dslr, 6x6, large format or whatever) and what lenses you intend to use before anyone can give appropriate advice.</p>

[tdigi]

<p>Good point David, 5D2 and 60D, biggest lens would be something like a 24-70 or 70-300L. with a flash at times. </p>

[tdigi]

<p>Anyone ever use a photo clamp? </p>

<p>http://reallybigcameras.com/PhotoClam/PC-40N_NS.htm</p>

[david_henderson]

<p>I just took a hard look at this and found that Markins, Really Right Stuff, Kirk, Acratech , and Arca Swiss all had ballheads that would do the job. I settled for the RRS BH40 with lever clamp. Partly that was a question of liking the way it looked, partly because I read a lot of positive comments about it ( though frankly you'll get a lot of positive comments about just about everything in this league) and partly because I'd pretty much settled on RRS camera plates and L plate. I knew I wanted a lever clamp not the screw version, though there seems to be a potential conflict between some plates from different origins and lever clamps which you get round by setting the clamp for a particular size/origin of plate or (of course) by sticking to the same brand for clamp and plates.</p>

<p>So far so good- the RRS L plate in particular makes turning the camera on its side a breeze and its still centred over the head which makes it more stable . I think the head plus clamp plus plates cost about $500 and from recall you won't get a much different answer across these brands. If that horrifies you then you need to look again at the Manfrottos I think. </p>

[tdigi]

<p>Markins Q10 and RRS BH 40 is what I was looking at. A friend suggest the Markins ball head with the RRS lever release plate. Seems a bit complicated, at least for me and my limited knowledge here.</p>

[howard_m]

<p>no, it's really simple. when you order the Q10, ask them to remove (ie. not install) the markin's clamp (although you probably want to still get the clamp as it's a pretty good clamp and dirt cheap) and then you just Loctite on the new RRS clamp. I have exactly that setup (w/ the M10 head)</p>

[tdigi]

<p>Howard that is exactly what I was told to do but it just seemed a little daunting? </p>

<p>If I get the Markins clamp I understand I could still use RRS plates? Also how difficult is it to Loctite the clamp to the ball head?</p>

[david_henderson]

<p>If you use two suppliers look out for the P&P charges- maybe its just a Europe thing, but Markins in particular seemed to charge quite a lot of money to get their stuff to me in the UK</p>

<p> </p>

[curt wiler]

<p>Personally, I have used the RRS BH 40 with QR plate pretty much since it came out and wouldn't think of another kind, as good as others may be. But one thing to keep in mind is that RRS has an extensive system of accessories including the best camera and lens plates in the industry for stability; and not all manufacturers follow exactly the same specs for "Arca-Swiss-type" fittings. Particularly with a quick release plate, you can run into tolerance problems between manufacturers, and not all cut their side dovetails the same way, leading to incompatibilities. It's best to stick with one manufacturer for parts that need to lock together.</p>

[Mike D]

<p>I have wasted more money on ball heads than any other accessory. I kept trying to buy a ball head that was as good as the Arca Swiss B1 or Z1 but simply couldn't find one so I finally bought the B1. The reason it is better is that the ball in the ball head is not perfectly round. It is shaped so that when you move a large lens on the ball head, it balances really nicely. Mine is now pretty banged up but sure is a pleasure to use. You might try to find a used one. Just my own experience.</p>

[tdigi]

I am really struggling to understand why I should even own such an expensive support system. I may end up back

with a manfrotto carbon 190 with one of their ballheads

[adamjohnson]

<p>Rather than looking at it as simply an <em>expensive support system</em>, you should instead consider how the quality of the equipment you use allows you to create what you envision without being distracted by the shortcomings of your equipment. Gitzo and Really Right Stuff don't just make expensive photography equipment. They make tools of exceptional quality that, in turn, make your life easier.</p>

<p>The first time I was out with my Gitzo G1325 and RRS BH-55, I was absolutely amazed by how effortless it was to set up and shoot the scene - and it's been the same ever since. If money is concern (and when is it not?), you can always buy used.</p>

[tdigi]

<p>True Adam, after owning the Gitzo for a few days I do see why its more expensive and I am going to keep it but this high end support stuff is just overwhelming.<br>

Coming from a mid to low level setup where the ball head, plate, clamp etc was all part of a package that did the job I had no idea that each piece is separate when you go high end. My main goal was something stable that will not be to much to lug around. I had the manfrotto 190 and while it certainly did the job it was just to bulky so it was never with me. I tried out the Gitzo 2541 in a store and I loved it so I got one but the ball head has me stumped. I am a little uneasy with putting separate parts together from different companies ( Markins ball with RRS clamp ) and then buying plates for each camera.</p>

[david_henderson]

<p>You don't have to buy ballhead, clamp and plates from separate people. Most of the companies discussed here make all these items. Several of them sell a ballhead with clamps essentially as one item- though you do have to decide whether you want a lever clamp or the screw version. Don't get frightened off by the need to Loctite a clamp in place when so many of the solutions don't require you to do that. When I got my stuff from RRS it took me less than five minutes to get to the point where the L plate was fitted to my camera, the ballhead/clamp was on my tripod and I was fitting one to the other. It really isn't difficult at all, albeit that its not actually easier than buying a Manfrotto ballhead and compatible QR plate. </p>

<p>I can't knock the Manfrotto stuff and indeed used it for years myself. But here's what you won't get</p>

<ul>

<li>The ability to use an L plate. Until you've used one of these as an alternative to flopping the camera/head over sideways, trying to see whether its properly vertical, and hoping that the weight of your 79-300 isn't going to make the camera move, you simply don't know what you're missing. I was happy with my Manfrotto head/plates all the time I had a 6x6 camera that I never had to turn on its side.</li>

<li>The ability to use the tripod without having to compensate for that little bit of downward movement you get when tightening the head up.</li>

<li>The ability to use the tripod without the camera twisting on the plate because there's no lip on the plate to prevent it. </li>

<li>The ability to set the tripod up with just enough drag and lock to hold the camera steady but not so tight that you can't move your aim to another point without untightening/retightening the tripod, and the camera remains steady in its new position. </li>

</ul>

<p>Now it may be that these things aren't important to you - as they aren't important to a lot of people for whom a Manfrotto tripod and head are absolutely the best vfm lifetime choice. Not many of them talk themselves into Gitzo tripods though. </p>

<p> </p>

[tdigi]

<p>Good info David, I guess this is one of those times I purchased before I really considered my needs. just seems like a good idea to own a good tripod but the final cost of the full setup has me thinking twice. </p>

[tdigi]

<p>So if I go with the Markins ballhead its not a big issue to have the clamp not loctite to the ball head? </p>

[david_henderson]

<p>If you go with the Markins ballhead <strong><em>with the intention of using their clamp </em></strong>you would let them Loctite the clamp in the usual way.</p>

<p>If you go with the Markins ballhead <em><strong>with the intention of using someone else's clamp </strong></em>You ask them not to loctite the Markins clamp in place. If the Markins ballhead you select is the Q3, it is not available without the clamp and so you need to have it not glued in place. With any other Markins head, you'll have the option as to whether to buy it with a clamp or not and I 'd kind of assume that you will buy without clamp if you don't want to use it. You then have to speak to the manufacturer of your selected clamp and ask what configuration you need to buy to fit onto that Markins ballhead. It won't be the first time they've been asked.</p>

<p>So now you have a ballhead and a clamp with the ability to fit together. Now you have to select the plate(s) - what brand, what configuration, making sure that you get plates made for your camera. If you're using a lever clamp make sure that all the plates you buy are the same brand. If you're using a screw clamp it doesn't matter. This is because some clamp/plate combos need to be set up to take your choice of plate, and you really , but really, don't want to keep messing with the setup of your clamp when you're in the field or working under pressure. </p>

<p>So hopefully you're now convinced that</p>

<ol>

<li>you can use heads, clamps and plates of different manufacturers together if you do a few things right and that it isn't rocket science. </li>

<li> Notwithstanding that, its just easier to use heads clamps and plates from the same people. </li>

</ol>

 

[tdigi]

<p>Is it a bad idea to go with markins with markins clamps and plates? it seems everyone mixes and matches.</p>

[tdigi]

<p>I was all set to order the markins with the ballhead and lever release clamp and then just adjust it to use RRS plates</p>

[frank_major]

<p>I was recently in the same situation as you Tommy - coming from (lower-end than you!) a beginner, low-quality tripod. I had a max. budget of $400 for this project and maybe one day will splash out for the highest-end stuff (arguably your Gitzo 'pod).</p>

<p>However, in my seaches i learned about a ballhead made by JP Graf called the Graf Studio Ball - and it looks pretty amazing. It seems pretty massive and spendy, but if you're able to seriously consider RRS/Markins/et al, than it wouldn't be out of your league (DEFINITELY outta mine!).</p>

<p>Heres a couple links for their 2 different sizes:<br>

"Smaller" one:<br>

<a href="http://www.myphotoaccessorystore.com/Graf-Graf_Mini_Ball_Head_1_4_3_8_pic_is_QR_Model.html">http://www.myphotoaccessorystore.com/Graf-Graf_Mini_Ball_Head_1_4_3_8_pic_is_QR_Model.html</a></p>

<p>"Larger" one:<br>

<a href="http://www.myphotoaccessorystore.com/Graf-Graf_Studio_Ball_Head_1_4_3_8_pic_is_QR_Model.html">http://www.myphotoaccessorystore.com/Graf-Graf_Studio_Ball_Head_1_4_3_8_pic_is_QR_Model.html</a></p>

<p>In the end, to meet my limited budget, i choose a Feisol Tournament CT-3342 'pod (new $299)/Extra Long Steel Spikes ($15) and Manfrotto 498rc2 ballhead (KEH used EX condition $72). Free shipping from reallybigcameras(dot)com on the 'pod legs and $11.83 shipping from KEH put me at $397.83. I'll actually have it in-hand in a month!</p>

<p>I hope you find a satisfying solution!</p>

[david_henderson]

 

<blockquote>

<p>Is it a bad idea to go with markins with markins clamps and plates? it seems everyone mixes and matches.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>No, not at all</p>

 

<blockquote>

 

<p>I was all set to order the markins with the ballhead and lever release clamp and then just adjust it to use RRS plates</p>

 

 

</blockquote>

 

<p>And that would work too</p>

<p>I don't think the difference between these solutions would kill you set-up wise, performance -wise, or cost-wise.</p>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<p> </p>

 

[tdigi]

<p>I appreciate all the advice, I too originally made up my budget to be around $400 to $500 for the entire package and my plan was something like the Manfrotto 190 Carbon ( $250 after rebate ) with the Manfrotto 054 ball head with Q2 quick release ( about $180 ) but from talking to others the Gitzo/Markins was certainly better quality but just gets a bit crazy expensive and seems like overkill for me so I am having a hard time justifying such an expense. I could still exchange the Gitzo and get the entire setup for less money but most everyone I talk to says get a good setup once and be done. Any thoughts on this?</p>

<p> </p>

[david_henderson]

<p>The" buy the best/buy once" theory only works if your needs demand the best. There are many people for whom a reputable but mid-range solution such as Manfrotto alu, legs and ballhead will give them what they need. If your use is particularly heavy or demandong then it is worthwhile getting the best in the market because those qualities will make a difference to you. But if you are rarely in a situation where a mid-range solution will let you down, and you're prepared to put up with a bit of lens creep or body occasionally twisting on the QR plate then staying at this level is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. For ten years I hauled medium format cameras round the world with Manfrotto 190/055 tripods and heavy duty heads, rarely turning a camera on its side. These tripods lasted for years, despite the fact that they rolled around in the back of a car on rough roads, were regularly immersed in shallow sea water and were never cleaned. </p>

<p>It is certainly not the case that everyone needs high end tripods and heads, and it is certainly the case that there are those whose photography might benefit from such equipment who make correct for them decisions to go midrange because it is for them a better value for money choice. </p>

<p> It was only a switch to dslrs and the consequent need to turn the camera on its side that told me that I needed to move up to a system with tailor-made QR plates and my most used Manfrotto was beginning to show signs of wear after many years. Had those circumstances not prevailed I might well have been using the same stuff now. <br>

<br>

I did things a little differently from you. I understood that Gitzo was the CF tripod of choice for many, but I couldn't find any objective reason why and I hate their leg locks. I asked questions on here and spent hours searching for any objective evidence to the extent that if I bought a Gitzo I'd get sharper pictures. I looked elsewhere on the internet with the same result. Everyone likes their Gitzos but no-one seemed able to give any objective evidence to support spending twice as much on a CF tripod than I needed. I bought the Manfrotto 055 model in carbon fibre instead for half the price of the equivalent Gitzo, and so far I'm happy with it. But for me, the place I didn't want to compromise was the head and plates. I bought RRS and as I've said I'm enjoying using it and I can see the benefit I get from it every time I use it. So for me I chose to compromise on the legs not the head and I still believe I'll get more benefit that way.</p>

[tdigi]

<p>David thats pretty sound logic. With the ball head I am starting to get it so I still think I am going with the Markins ball head but uncertain as to just using the markins lever clamp and adjusting it to RRS or simply getting the RRS clamp. I know the markins is adjustable but I would prefer the clamp and plate be made for each other without me having to make adjustments on some screw that could move, come loose etc. Just seems to make more sense but because I am a newbie with ballheads I keep thinking it may be better to just go with the BH-40 and be done. </p>

<p>With the legs I do feel the Gitzos are a little better as far as build and its a sleeker package but I thought the Manfrottos 190 and 055 where also very good but the 055 is a bit bulkier then I would like. I do like the ability to take the center column and rotate it out with the Manfrottos. </p>