Nikon's CLS - Commander mode for Reception Advisable?

[alex_foto]

<p>Hello all,<br>

I have been using the Paul Buff's pocket wizard - a radio and a couple of receivers, which have been pain in the neck and unreliable. To this end, I was going to try to using the commander mode to trigger my SB600, SB800 and SB900 using my D300s, at least, during the reception. Before I invest on any other fine and "reliable" wireless trigger. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this before? Is it advisable and/or reliable?<br>

Thank you,<br>

Alex</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Don't know about Nikon CLS, but I am thinking you have Paul C. Buff Cybersyncs confused with Pocket Wizards. They are two separate products. I have the Cybersyncs and I have never, ever had a misfire that wasn't traceable to user error or something like low battery condition. They are nothing but totally reliable--I mean totally.</p>

<p>Pocket Wizards, I've heard about troubles with Nikon flash.</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Some people hook up a wireless reciever to a flash like an SB-800, and then don't realize that if they have the SB-800 set to go into standby mode, it will only wake up (but not fire) on the first trigger it feels. The second triggering signal will actually fire it. You solve this problem by hitting a transmitter's test button if the unit has been idle for a while ... or, by turning off the stand-by feature on the flash. If you don't know this is what's happening, it can appear to be poor performance with the radio devices (which it is <em>not</em>). <br /><br />Like Nadine, I've never had Buff's devices (or Pocket Wizards - that other brand) fail. Even once. Ever.</p>

[john_deerfield]

<blockquote>

<p>Pocket Wizards, I've heard about troubles with Nikon flash.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I would be curious as to what troubles? In any event, in the past I have used both the CyberSync system (with and without the commander), the "standard" Pocket Wizards and now we are transitioning to the newer Pocket Wizard Flex system. And so far, I haven't had any issues (well, the Flex system with an AC9 and Alien Bee strobe is still in Beta firmware). Now, would I use CLS (non-Flex system) during a reception: no. Not if reliability is one of your concerns. There is just too much that you have no control over that can interfere with system: size of room and signal interference to name two. Regardless of trigger system, I am not a fan of TTL CLS. If I am using a stationary strobe/flash, I prefer to set the power manually on the flash. I find TTL CLS during a reception very inconsistent in terms of exposure. Finally, with the Flex system (even without the Flex system!), I prefer using an Alien Bee as my off camera strobe. Cheaper than putting the miles on a shoe mount strobe and better quality of light.</p>

[sam_ellis]

<p>I've used the pop-up flash to trigger slave flashes and it's just not reliable. Even using the SB-900 as a commander isn't perfect due to limitations with the CLS. If you don't have the IR receiver facing the right way, forget it.<br>

I purchased the Pocketwizard Flex/Mini system and have been mostly happy with it. It's not foolproof, but it's pretty good. The standard Pocketwizards are good too, but I like to be able to control the output of the slave flashes.</p>

[mariosforsos]

<p>I had, until very recently, been using CLS almost exclusively and yes, I have used it for indoors receptions. 99% of the time everything went fine and I loved the capability of being able to adjust the power of my strobes from where I was standing in order to get exactly the picture I want. So yes, the system works and, depending on the size of the reception hall and your placement of strobes there, very, very well. However, mind you, I was using Nikon's SU-800 commander, NOT the camera's popup flash, so I cannot attest to the system's usability or performance that way.</p>

<p>Personally, I'd never had a problem with almost any other remote triggers that could not be attributed to me doing something stupid or there being something terribly wrong with the strobe(s). When I set up everything right, my PWs work excellently ALL the time.</p>

[jonathan_davila]

<p>the pocketwizard "flex" system is the most reliable off camera flash triggering system I've ever laid my hands on for the nikon CLS compatible system. Never, ever had a misfire with it even from great distances. If anything commander mode is 1000 times more unreliable than P.W Flex</p>

[alex_foto]

<p>Thank you all for your prompt responses.<br>

@Nadine, I stand corrected. It is indeed the Paul C. Buff's <a href="http://www.paulcbuff.com/cst.php">Cyber Sync</a> and not the Pocket Wizard. However, as Matt Laur pointed out triggering the flashes like the SB800 after it has been on standby is a bit annoying. And Matt, that is indeed the solution.</p>

<p>@Matt, However, that is not only the problem. This receivers that I have Cyber Sync <a href="http://www.paulcbuff.com/csr.php">CSRB</a> is known for not functioning after a certain consecutive firing. It would either completely die for sometime or just fire unconsciously. I hate for this to happen especially when I use it in an outdoor photo shoot.</p>

<p>@John Deerfield, I am sorry I had you and the others talk about the Pocket Wizard nevertheless, the feedback you provided is helpful by default.</p>

<p>@Sam and Jonathan, I will looking into the Flex system.</p>

<p>@Marios, I really wanted to see if this is going to be possible. The reception is going to be quite big - about 300 invitees, at least; and the venue is like a decent hotel ball room with fairly high ceiling, about 15 - 20 feet.</p>

[alex_foto]

<p>After googling and reading about the Mini TT1 and Flex TT5, I got this question, I thought would ask you.<br>

If I had to buy a Mini TT1 and say one Flex TT5 [transceiver], how would I use this with Alien Bees' B800 light, along with my SB600, SB800 and SB900.<br>

Thanks,<br>

Alex</p>

[picturesque]

<p>I've never heard of anyone having problems like you describe with Cybersyncs--Canon or Nikon. The 'unconscious' firing is because you need a new transmitter battery. In any case, Paul C. Buff customer service is superb, and I'm wondering why you don't send them in for repair or replacement, if they work as you want otherwise? I'm sure they will do something for you.</p>

[alex_foto]

<p>That is right, Nadine, when it comes to their customer service. I just gave it a shot and shared my concern. They told me to try something and call back. So I will definitely do so.</p>

 

[john_deerfield]

<blockquote>

<p>If I had to buy a Mini TT1 and say one Flex TT5 [transceiver], how would I use this with Alien Bees' B800 light, along with my SB600, SB800 and SB900.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>The short answer is: you wouldn't. The long answer depends on what you are trying to do, how you want to set everything up. The Mini TT1 is easy enough, that goes in your camera hot shoe. After that, things get a bit more complicated. What do you want to hook the Flex TT5 to? The Alien Bee or one of the Nikon flashes? If connecting to the Alien Bee, you need an AC 3 (which controls the flash unit on the other end whether it is a Nikon or an Alien Bee) and AC9 (which connects to the phone port of the Alien Bee) if you want to be able to control the power of the Alien Bee from the camera position. If you connect the Flex to the SB600/800, you put the SB900 on top the mini and use that as the commander to control the SB600/800. At this point, only one Nikon flash is being triggered via the PW system. You could try setting up the 2nd flash using CLS but then you have all of the issues that come with CLS (more I might imagine, mixing CLS with Pocket Wizard Radios). Of course this leaves out the Alien Bee. You could try connecting a regular Pocket Wizard to the Alien Bee. I am pretty sure the mini <em>should</em> trip it, but I haven't set that up yet myself. Ideally, you want a Flex for each flash/strobe.</p>

[alex_foto]

<p>Complicated, huh! - tell me about it. John, so ruling out mixing and going for Mini and/or Flex, could we safely say that let's forget the Mini and just buy about 3 or so Flex's - for their transceiver capabilities?</p>

 

[stevenseelig]

<p>I was having problems with inconsistent firing of FlexTT5/SB800 as slaves, but the matter was resolved with Firmware 2.146. At this point, the only difficulties I am having is <br>

1. User errors<br>

2. Remembering to do a quick test button, to wake up the SB800.<br>

Otherwise it seems to be quite reliable.<br>

Remember to use fresh batteries on each major session.</p>

[john_deerfield]

<blockquote>

<p>safely say that let's forget the Mini and just buy about 3 or so Flex's - for their transceiver capabilities</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I like the size of the mini but if I won't buy any more of them simply because for $20 more I can get the transceiver AND that unit takes readily available AA batteries. The mini takes one of those round batteries.</p>

[nigel fraustbyte]

<p>Nikon CLS Works Great..Give it a Try</p>

[jonathan_davila]

<p>Nikon CLS works great. Commander mode not so much. Unless you're only working indoors or outdoors on pretty cloudy days within a meter or two of your flash unit and visible line of sight. That's too much annoyance for me. The cost of the Flex system and ac3 zone controller was well worth it. Even working indoors I might add, can become frustrating quickly if you're wanting to place background highlight flashes with snoots behind a subject and it takes the flash out of your visible line of site.</p>

[sam_ellis]

<p>The Mini is nice because of its size, but you COULD use a Flex on the camera. I think it's too bulky though. <br>

You need one Mini, and one Flex for the flashes you want to control. You could use the ABs set to fire optically, but then you would have it going off whenever someone uses a point and shoot in the same room (nice if you want to ruin all their photos). You can also use the original Pocketwizards on the slaves and set the flashes/ABs in manual mode. There's an adapter to connect the Flex to an AB and be able to control the output. </p>

 

[alex_foto]

<p>@John Deerfield, I hear you. It is something to think about before the investment.<br>

@Sam, you are right. The Flex is kinda bulky compared to the Mini. For this reason, I might go for a Mini and a couple of Flexes - and/or as Jonathan Davila said, may be, AC3.<br>

@Jim Donahue and Jonathan Davila, the CLS, I think, is also good. I tried it but not at a big event like wedding reception. I am not ruling it out at all though.<br>

@Steve Seelig, I don't know if I can totally put the blame on the user error but I think, it is a possibility. So much so...<br>

As Nadine suggested last time, I got on a phone with Paul C. Buff's customer service [they have one of the best customer service btw] and after having done some tests, I came to understand that the problem wasn't on the Cyber Sync's - the receivers. It was a technical fault on the part of my flash, which made this happen due to the duration of time the flash was made to go to sleep or be on a standby mode. To resolve this, I increased the duration of time when it would go to standby from auto [factory set up] to 160 [i am not sure but I am thinking it is 160 seconds]. After doing this, I tried to use the flash indoor last Sunday and it worked fine without any interruption, at all. I hope I will have the same experience this coming weekend, as well. <br>

With this, I think, we can close this thread. I thank you all for pouring your comments, suggestions and recommendations. </p>