How to deal with client after event, before package delivery.

[robgomez]

<p>Hello,<br>

I just rapped up my second paid wedding job a month ago. This couple were a friend of my mom's, and I am new to wedding photography, so I worked with them to get a deal. <br>

The first meeting I told them the whole thing would be $500 for about 1000 digital pics, a photo book, an personal online gallery, and 3 8x10 prints. <br>

Then they said they wanted a projector screen with a slideshow. I said "sure, but it will cost another $150". They asked if it could be included. I basically say "you guys are getting me for $500 already". So they agreed to pay the $150, so $650 total. I split up the payments in 3 ways. Half for booking me the day of interview, 1/4 a week before the wedding, and the rest on delivery of photo album, prints, and DVDs of high-res pics. They would receive these in about a week after the wedding.<br>

Wedding day comes, and everything goes great.<br>

Two days after the wedding I send the gallery via email and they like it. I proceed to work on the album. A day after that they said that they want to pick which pics go into the album. It was originally agreed that I would choose. I said "fine, from the online gallery choose the ones you want and send me a list of the numbered pics". <br>

I wait 2 weeks for this, sent them a reminder email, and about 2 hours later get the list with an email saying "Please send us another gallery of the pics we picked so we can approve them". I do it, send it to them, and say "please choose the pics for 8x10s, too".<br>

I wait another week, and send them another reminder. An hour later, get an email saying that his wife now wants to take some photos out and put some in. <br>

I send him this email:<br>

Ok, just let me know. In the meantime I am working on the pics that you listed. The next edit you send me will be the last one, after that I will send the album off to the printers, in event order. After I receive the album I will head over to you to drop it off along with the pics on DVDs. I must receive the remaining payment at that time. Please try to choose your 8x10 prints soon, too.<br />Thanks for understanding,<br />R<br>

This email was sent just now. That brings us up to speed.<br>

I know that this is all my fault, I know I have to change my whole system around to avoid this stuff in the future.<br>

So my questions are: How do I avoid this kind of stuff in the future? What kind of system do you guys have? Do you let the couple ever choose? Do you receive full payment <em>before</em> the final delivery so the couple has an incentive to work with you better? Is 6 weeks a normal turnover for the work? Was I too harsh?<br>

Thanks guys,<br>

R</p>

<p> </p>

[richardsnow]

<p>I never choose the photos for the album for my clients. It's a book that the B&G will hopefully have forever so they should choose the photos that go into the album.</p>

<p>Next time, here's a good way to handle it:</p>

<ul>

<li>Schedule a time for a viewing...the couple should plan to make a day of it.</li>

<li>Present the high resolution photos on a computer with a large (20"-32") monitor and give the B&G the time they need to pick the photos for the album and the ones they want enlarged to 8x10</li>

<li>You should have a way for the B&G to select the photos, either by starring or color coding in Lightroom or some other photo viewing software.</li>

<li>At the end of the session, you should have everything you need.</li>

<li>Once you create the album, send a PDF to the B&G to approve and send it off to be printed.</li>

</ul>

<p>That's it... really the way I have found makes everyone's life easiest. It ties the B&G to a day they will spend looking through the photos and it gives you what you need in a timely manner so you can get on with photographing more events.</p>

<p>RS</p>

[fotografz]

<p>$500 clients are the same as $5,000 clients when it comes to being demanding and expectations ... sometimes even harder to please.</p>

<p>I pick the photos in the album ... always. I design the album and send a PDF for approval. The client can change up to 4 images on a smaller album and 6 on a larger album. </p>

<p>In total, I've had to change 4 photos from all the albums I've produced. The last 10 albums I did had no changes.</p>

<p>Clients actually love this because picking the pictures drives them crazy ... and by extension will drive you crazy. </p>

<p>You have to tell them how you approach album design and why it flows the way it does ... then prove it with samples. </p>

<p>All of it is spelled out in my contract. </p>

[mariosforsos]

<p>Personally, I follow a slightly different approach:</p>

<p>1. I post my selection of wedding images on the site. The couple have the ability to pick the images they like directly from within the webpage.<br>

2. I then sit down and design the album for them - after all, that's part of what they've purchased: my expertise in designing something cool<br>

3. I send them a PDF with the first version, along with an MS Excel sheet containing a format I have devised for collecting feedback (i.e. take this out, can we have this in B&W, can we switch this for that, etc)<br>

4. Based on the feedback, I make the second version. This is the final chance they have for a review (that's actually part of my contract - they only get two reviews, upon condition I fullfil ALL their change requests, which I do anyway)<br>

5. Once this is done, they AND the printer get the proof. The printer has a 48hr hold directive, JUST in case something has gone terribly wrong. Then he goes ahead and prints...</p>

<p>So far, it has worked...still, if a client has a particularly terrible monitor (and I usually know that from comments such as "my skin looks green" or something like that), THEN I invite them in for a review on my system...;-)</p>

[dmcgphoto]

<p>I agree with Mark that $500 vs $5000 the $500 tends to want more. I'm certain there's a reason for that.<br>

My way...images are done within 10-15 days of event, often sooner (under promise/over deliver)<br>

They are up for 1 year from the wedding date (thinking of cutting this to 6 months)<br>

THEY pick 50 images for the album to be built around, but they come to me within 2 weeks of the images going online to consult on the album, We sketch it out, literally in studio in about 2-3 hours on paper with a few examples going on the monitor for them to see what I'm referring to. If there are any changes to be made, considering we already did it in front of them in the studio, they have one chance, then it's $35 per change regardless of how small. Marios-who do you use for printing, and why not just wait 2 days rather than have the printer? Just a question, not an indictment.<br>

I give them all their images but not until the album meeting.<br>

Regarding payment, 20% with signed deposit, remainder due by wedding day, no exceptions.<br>

If they have an issue with that arrangement, they aren't my client.<br>

Now as for you, without seeing your work, I would say that while $500 seems like a lot in one chunk, how much work did you do? How much does the album cost you, not merely materially, but in terms of time? Do you have a manner to count the time you've spent on their album?<br>

I've clients who've taken 3 years to make selections for their album, are you suggesting you will wait 3 years for the final $150+ to settle a contract?<br>

Rob if you want this to be a full time business, you have to think of yourself as a professional, and while wedding photographers aren't really believed by the general public as more than part timers, many are. They are damn good photographers, and by necessity, excellent business people. So to avoid this, don't think you don't have a foot to stand on, start with the contract that spells out expectations. I would avoid anything that allows them to see the images before final payment, I would run from anything that gives them the digital images before final payment especially.<br>

This is a wonderful career, or a huge headache, it's up to you to decide which.<br>

Good luck</p>

[mitch_w1]

<p>50% due at contract signing. Balance due 45 days before event.<br>

After wedding I do this in this order:<br>

blog 20 to 30ish photos from the wedding. These will be some of the strongest photos from the day and gives the client a feel for what images will be the foundation of the album.<br>

Create slideshow. This will be 60-80 images, again most of what will make it into the album. The clients have now had two opportunities to ooh and ahh over their photos and see what I obviously consider the most important to telling their story.<br>

Share personal online gallery with client with final culled down set.<br>

Create and send album layouts to client. I choose all photos for the album myself and allow 2 go arounds on changes. At this point the client has seen what I believe are the strongest images that tell their story and are for the most part already on board. I have only ever had a client make very minor changes to my layouts. Allow the client to choose their own photos and you run the risk of them taking forever. I always shoot with telling their story in mind... with the album in mind... so who better to choose the photos?</p>

[stephen_kinosh]

<p>We do not offer albums, but our payment policy has always been 50% witht the contract, and the balance 2 weeks before the wedding</p>

[heather_claypool]

<p>If you buy carpet, do you expect it to be instaled before you pay for it in full? Absolutely not! Not that I'm comparing photography to carpet, but you get the idea. I expect a $100 non-refundable deposit at the time of the booking. This allows them some time to decide on what they want to include on their package as well as allows me to know that I have a sincere booking for that date and can then turn away any future inquiries for that date. Then I ask for half at the time they decide on the package and the other half two weeks before the wedding. If asked, I'm happy to split it up over more instalments, but that's the norm. I have (once) agreed to shoot the wedding with only 50% paid, but advised I would not edit or deliver anything until the remainder was paid. <br>

As far as the album design goes, I tell my clients upfront that I will create an album pre-design from the photos I think would tell the story well. It's nothing they have to stick with, and they have ultimate control over the images that are selected, but with 800 or so images to choose from, some couples find it overwhelming to sift through those to come up with 50 or 60 to put in the album. I post the pre-design online and then they can comment on each page and list any changes they would like to make. I'll do that a handful of times until we arrive at a design that they are happy with. So far, this system has worked out really well for me. Before we start with any revisions, I also give them a few pointers on the overall design too. <br>

I would hesitate to have them rush on the album so they have "incentive to work with you better". Just produce a quality product, listen to your client and that will be their incentive. Sounds to me like you may be rushing them so you can get paid faster, no?? <br>

6 weeks is a great turnaround time... if they are ready. I've had clients wait over a year from the time I send the first pre-design... even with gentle "reminder" e-mails at Christmas and on their anniversary! LOL! It's not a priority for some couples. But if you work with them and have patience to work on their time frame, they will remember that and refer you to their friends and relatives! </p>

 

[eric merrill]

<p>In terms of payment, I require half to book and half 30 days prior to the wedding.</p>

<p>This isn't carpeting. I can't sell the finished photos to another couple. I'm paid in full before the wedding.</p>

<p>If a couple were dissatisfied with my results, I would refund all of their money. I've made that offer. I've never had a couple use it. On the other hand, I have couples that I have never heard from after the wedding. My guess is that they didn't last very long. I've had couples that took well over a year to get back to me after I told them their online proofs were ready. </p>

<p>As long as I'm paid up front, the couples timeline doesn't concern me greatly. I make sure that I deliver quality photos in a timely manner. Beyond that, not much else I can do.</p>

<p>Eric</p>

[maira_sharron]

<p>I take a 200.00 deposit and the rest is due before the wedding day.</p>

<p>I design the wedding album myself with photos that I feel tells the story of their day. I send them the draft. They can swap out photos, based on the online gallery, but the design remains the same. 90 percent of my couples like it the way it is. If they feel they want to change out some photos, they get one opportunity. I make the swaps and then send them a final online draft. I tell them that this method enables me to keep my price reasonable. If I had to back-and-forth several changes, it would drive me nuts. </p>

[jonathan_davila]

<p>I always collect 50% deposit on the time of booking / contract signing.</p>

<p>Contract states the other 50% due 5 business days before the event date, or no obligation to show up for the event.</p>

<p>I let the B & G choose photos for their albums. You can get a software called "Flaunt" installed for your website from a company called intothedarkroom.com</p>

<p>get it installed to a sub directory on your hosting (not the root). Once it's setup. You can create "sets" that are password protected. Each set is a flash slideshow with as many photos as you like. Auto watermarking. And it has a "like" feature similiar to facebook for each photo. At the end of the slide show, all photos the couple pressed "like" it pops up with a window confirmation for them that says "send to photographer" it then emails me a list of all the photos by photonumber.jpg that the couple chose.</p>

<p>Once the couple sends that, It tells them in bright red warning that they have 48 hours to make any changes preferably by calling me asap, before they go into print production for the album.</p>

<p>It costs 100.00 by the default, but once it's installed you have a backend control panel and it's on your server. I also found an online coupon code that brought the price down to 50.00 but you have to hunt for the coupons pretty good.</p>