Which lens and tripod?

[wildlight]

<p>Hi everyone,<br /> I am looking to purchase a new birding lens and tripod to support the lens.<br /> <br />I am leaning more towards the Canon 500mm f/4 but the 600mm f/4 is very tempting! Do you have any experience with these lenses and if so, which is more practical? I'll be doing more walking with the camera than sitting in hides, so the extra weight would be a slight issue, really all I want though is the best compromise.<br /> The 500mm is lighter and slightly sharper but the 600mm has a lot more length and would be awesome for birding.<br /> Tripod-wise, I'm looking at the Gitzo Mountaineer range, but really have no idea which tripod would be best! If anyone knows which tripod would be best then please let me know.<br /> <br />Cheers,<br /> Joe</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Comparing the Series I 500mm and 600mm, the 500mm is substantially lighter, despite not being particularly light itself. Based largely on this difference, I bought the 500/f4L IS. I use it with an Induro CT-414 tripod, an Arca-Swiss Z1 ballhead and a Wimberley Sidekick when I use the tripod, BUT 99% of my shots are hand held.</p>

<p>If you're willing to wait until 2012 and pay almost $4,000 more, then the 600/f4l IS II (series II) is worth consideration. Both the 500mm and 600mm series II lenses are substantially lighter and have IS that is around two-stops better. If you can find a used series I, then I'd start with the 500mm and consider moving up to the 600mm series II when it's available. Depending on my personal financial situation, I'll probably move up to the 600mm in 2012.</p>

<p>The extra reach is very useful for birds and much wildlife. I pretty regularly use my 1.4x TC with my 500mm, but it slows the AF enough to make the 1.4x TC unsuitable for birds in flight.</p>

<p>Which body are you using? I use the 7D, which will not AF with lenses slower than f5.6. If you use the 1D MkIII or IV, then you'll be able to use a 2x TC and still maintain single-point AF.</p>

<p>You'll want either a stand alone gimbal or ballhead/Sidekick combo for bird photography on the tripod, but I find that my keeper rate for birds in flight is much higher hand held.</p>

[wildlight]

<p>Thanks for the reply!<br>

The newer lenses aren't worth the extra few thousand bucks for me and also I don't think I can wait that long! ;)<br>

I have the 7D as well, though I might upgrade depending on how well it works with the new lens.<br>

How do you find the 500mm without the TC in terms of focusing speed and accuracy? That's something I'm definitely lacking at the moment (I'm using a Sigma 300mm f/2.8 + 2x TC)!</p>

[michael.gregory]

<p>Consider the 500 a 1.4 teleconverter for when you need more reach, and a sturdy carbon fiber monopod with a ball Head. This ensemble is much lighter to carry than any tripod arrangement and gives you more reach than either the 500 or the 600. I have used this arrangement for some time and find it quite serviceable.</p>

[wildlight]

<p>Which tripod are you using? And which one would you reccomend?</p>

[dcstep]

<p>The AF speed of the 500/f4 with the 1.4x TC is fine for static subjects and relatively slow moving subjects like coyote and deer; however, it's too slow (at least for me) for birds in flight. My keeper ratio falls close to nil for BIF when I add the TC, where it's very good without the TC.</p>

[photodiscoveries]

<p>Never used the 600, but have the 500 and love it. I get extra reach with the 1.4 extender and the results are excellent. Have no problems with birds in flight with the combo. I currently shoot with the Benro 358 tripod and the Mongoose 3.6, 4th Generation gimble. <br>

Have had excellent results, but just ordered the Really Right Stuff TVC-34L Tripod. My gift to myself...might be overkill, but I find a sturdy tripod is critical, especially if there is a bit of wind. For handheld, I use the 400 f4 DO and also have excellent birding results.</p>

 

[dcstep]

<p>DeLoyd, I see that you also use the 7D, which makes it hard for me to understand when you that you, "Have no problems with birds in flight with the combo." Are you saying that your keeper rate with the 1.4x TC on your 500/f4 is the same as without? Are you shooting birds faster than geese? I've found pheasant at close range, ducks, kingfishers and a few other birds, like close by eagles, just too fast for the 500/1.4x/7D combo, most of the time. My keeper ratio without the TC is at least twice as high.</p>

[charles_clark1]

<p>I dream about having a wife that would let me buy a 500. :-) </p>

<p>I have a sturdy tripod though. I have the Gitzo 1325. No, they don't make them any more. I love this tripod. You can buy one used on ebay for a good price. </p>

[wildlight]

<p>Thanks for your replies!<br>

It looks like the 500mm f/4 with 1.4x and 2x TCs will be the best option. If I find there's not enough reach or AF speed (when TCs are attached), then I can always sell it and get the 600mm.<br>

Hi Charles, do you know what the equivalent of the 1325 is at the moment? That's the tripod I was recommended by a buddy, but like you said, it's discontinued and at this moment there aren't any on ebay!</p>

<p>One other thing, I've been looking at the Canon 1D MkIV and again was wondering what your opinions are on this camera over the 7D? I know it has less megapixels and a larger sensor so the 500mm won't have as much magnification than when used with the 7D, but would the full weather sealing, superior autofocus and better noise control cancel it out?</p>

[dcstep]

<p>The 1D MkIV will give you significantly better AF function than the 7D. It'll lock on better and faster. Also, you can use the 2.0x TC in AF mode on the 1D4, but not the 7D. You'll get three times as many clicks out of the shutter before it needs to be replaced and you'll get 10-fps. The weather sealing on the 7D is pretty darn good, but the 1D4 is superior.</p>

<p>As a 7D user, the main thing that I covet from the 1D4 is the superior AF program. The 7D ain't bad, but being able to AF the 2.0x TC is seeming more important. Also, I'd hope that the AF with the 1.4x TC will be faster than on the 7D.</p>

<p>It doesn't feel as good in my hands as the 7D, but that's a small negative. A larger negative is the price diff., but you do get value for your money.</p>

[joe_fikes]

<p>It may be helpful to give <a href="http://www.birdsasart.com/">www.BIRDSASART.com</a> a visit. Art Morris has many good recommendations for gear throughout his writeups. You can subscribe to his newsletter if you wish. He always has good pictures and suggestions. Just in his last newsletter he commented that his favorite lens is the 800mm Canon. But, interestingly, he rates the new 70-200 f/2.8 IS L II along with the extenders very highly. And he has specific recommendations on the Gitzo tripods, but I don't recall exactly which model he likes. You can search through his stuff and find it.</p>

<p>I hope this helps.</p>

<p>Joe</p>

[joe_fikes]

<p>Joe again... I'm quoting from Art Morris' most recent newsletter:<br>

<a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542293-REG/Canon_2746B002AA_EF_800mm_f_5_6L_IS.html/BI/6633/KBID/7226">Canon 800mm f/5.L IS lens.</a> Right now this is my all time favorite super-telephoto lens.<br /> <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/680103-USA/Canon_2751B002_EF_70_200mm_f_2_8L_IS.html/BI/6633/KBID/7226">Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II lens</a>. Man, I am loving this lens on my shoulder with the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=canon+EF+Extender+2X+III&N=0&InitialSearch=yesBI/6633/KBID/7226">2X III teleconverter</a>. I also use it a lot with the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?%3cbr%20/%3e%0d%0a%20Ntt=canon+EF+Extender+1.4X+III&N=0&InitialSearch=yesBI/6633/KBID/7226">1.4X III TC</a> which is designed to work best with the new Series II super-telephoto lenses. I used the 70-200 alone to create all of the images at Scott’s place.<br /> <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/656378-REG/Canon_3822B002_EOS_1D_Mark_IV.html/BI/6633/KBID/7226"></a><br>

And then:<br>

<a href="https://store.birdsasart.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=20">Gitzo GT3530LS Tripod.</a> This one will last you a lifetime.<br /> <a href="https://store.birdsasart.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=274">Mongoose M3.6 Tripod Head.</a> Right now this is the best tripod head around for use with lenses that weigh less than 9 pounds. For heavier lenses, check out the <a href="https://store.birdsasart.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=35">Wimberley V2 head</a>.<br /> <a href="https://store.birdsasart.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=238">CR-80 Replacement Foot for Canon 800</a>. When using the 800 on a Mongoose as I do, replacing the lens foot with this accessory lets the lens sit like a dog whether pointed up or down and prevents wind-blown spinning of your lens on breezy days by centering the lens directly over the tripod.</p>

<p>Joe</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Art's a great guy, BUT he sells Gitzo and Mongoose. There's nothing wrong with selling products that you like, but he can be very negative about products that he doesn't sell. Also, I think he's using the 1D4 when he stacks TCs.</p>

[JohnMWright]

<p>I would buy the 500mm for the weight difference. Someday, when my wife won't kill me, maybe I will. </p>

<p>But my tripod is more than good enough. I bought a Gitzo 3530, and shortened the centerpost. There are several variations on the 35xx models, so you are sure to find one that suits your height. If I manage to survive buying a 500mm, I will also get the Wimberley v2 head. </p>

<p>For BIF you might look into a shoulder stock.</p>

[dcstep]

<p>John said:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>For BIF you might look into a shoulder stock.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Try simply hand holding first. Many men find that very manageable, but be ready to look for alternatives if it's too much for you.</p>