complaining about other people's bad wedding photos (was: OMG!)

[maria_papas]

<p>To set the record straight for those of you who are "offended" by the fact I posted a poor photographer's POOR photos in this thread to talk about:<br>

1) I am a CONSUMER and I am offering my opinions FREE OF CHARGE. Take it or leave it. At least I am not asking for any money because I should start asking for some... The same way some "photographers" do.<br>

2) This is an open and public forum. If this photographer has any sense of mind to ever google herself she will find this thread, be able to read it, and have the option to either respond or correct her mistakes because of what she reads if she feels she made any. If any of you would like to go out of their way and ALERT the photographer in question please feel free to do so as well. That's why I posted her link, and also mentioned that I saw her photography on facebook (it might be a good idea if anyone TRULY wants to help her). I gave each and every one of you the option to do so if you would like to go out of your way. Me, personally, I prefer to continue the discussion Wade started and let the photographer in my link find her own way in life. I'm not in the "save art for art's sake" kinda mood today. Sort of the way Obama isn't in the "feed the children" kind of mood any day (so far) and I need to keep seeing those stupid commercials on my television set. Maybe he will read this thread and change his mind?<br>

3) Obama is the president and I am not nor will I ever be, but don't I have the right to discuss his work performance especially since it directly affects me? That's how I felt about the photographer who's link I posted to this thread. It was serendipitous that I saw my friend's photos recently and it was fresh in my mind and I also saw this post almost simultaneously. For those of you who's funny bone I tickled...I think you might have a phony baloney bone in your clicker finger and are upset that me or anyone else out there might accidentally EXPOSE it.<br>

4) I have EVERY RIGHT to post my OPINION about ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. If you don't like it either ignore my responses and take yourself off the instant alerts for this thread or move out of this country, and preferably go to one without internet service. <br>

5) I am not the only person on this earth who feels this way. If I was then <em><strong>I </strong></em>would be living in another country with no internet service. I don't like being censored as much as ANY of you don't want to be told to put your cameras down and to stop taking pictures. The minute I find something better to do with my time, I will stop responding to this thread. Till then I feel I am offering many people a great service free of charge by posting on here.</p>

[waltflanagan]

<p>This thread takes me back to high school.</p>

[mike dixon]

<I>I have EVERY RIGHT to post my OPINION about ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. If you don't like it either ignore my responses and take yourself off the instant alerts for this thread or move out of this country, and preferably go to one without internet service. </i><P>

LOL! You have every right to express your opinions, but if I don't like it, I should take my opinions and go somewhere you don't have to hear them! Brilliant.

[green_photog]

<p>If you post something on the net, you post something on the public forum on your own accord and prepared to be criticized. It doesn't matter if the critique is an amateur or professional, everyone is entitled to their opinion. <br>

I have the right to dislike Katy Perry's music even though I am not even half a singer she is. That's why I prefer the tiny url approach so that at least the photog cannot search this thread. </p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p>The most recent thread for the Wedding POW had six photographers contribute to a short discussion on the merits of an actual photo submitted for critique while this thread has had more than triple that response in a matter of hours..........what does that tell you about the forum?</p>

[maria_papas]

<p>Mr. Dixon: <br>

<em>I have EVERY RIGHT to post my OPINION about ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. If you don't like it either ignore my responses and take yourself off the instant alerts for this thread or move out of this country, and preferably go to one without internet service.</em></p>

<p>This was meant for those who wanted to censor my opinion. I should have also added:<br>

<em>I have EVERY RIGHT to post my OPINION about ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. If you don't like it either ignore my responses and take yourself off the instant alerts for this thread or move out of this country, and preferably go to one without internet service. <strong>OR you can comment back and we can keep this thread alive and well so maybe we can end up back to the topic of this discussion which is </strong></em></p>

<h1>complaining about <em>other people's</em> bad wedding photos</h1>

<p>Does this forum NOT SUPPORT the right to complain? I didn't read any disclosures about that anywhere... not even on the website of the person who's link I used as an example. If you have a website maybe you will want to add that type of disclosure somewhere. Either on your portfolio page, your About Us page, or better yet your CONTACT US page. It could go something like this : <em>Contact us about anything OTHER THAN A COMPLAINT. For that you could go directly to <a href="http://www.bbb.org/">http://www.bbb.org/</a> this way we can all be happy 8-)</em></p>

[cliff_nj]

<p>How many photographers does it take to screw in a light bulb?<br>

Twenty...one to screw in the lightbulb and nineteen to stand around complaining about how he did it and claiming to be better.</p>

[green_photog]

 

<p >The way this thread goes is more like 1 screws the light bulb, 10 other complaining about how he did it and the other 9 complaining about how the other 10 complaining.</p>

<p > </p>

<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=6202134">Cliff NJ</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"></a>, May 31, 2011; 12:57 p.m.</p>

 

<p>How many photographers does it take to screw in a light bulb?<br />Twenty...one to screw in the lightbulb and nineteen to stand around complaining about how he did it and claiming to be better.</p>

 

 

 

[christopher_ellington]

<p>I think it's just fine to hear complaints about work. I think it is also just fine to support what you're saying. I have seen my share of "bad" wedding photos. I don't think it's necessary to act as if I will NEVER produce a bad wedding photo (or any photo for that matter) myself or that all of my point and shoots will be 10x better than any growing photographer. But yes, sometimes it is a shame to see a photographer charging $4500 for photos when another photographer who produces more appealing/creative/technically better photos for $3000. Nothing wrong with pointing that out.<br>

I would just watch a certain arrogance that we can sometimes tend to display. Not everyone has an eye for a particular art as others do. And sometimes it may take shooting some bad events before realizing what you need to work on. If photography is something someone pursue, they may just post up a portfolio of bad images to get their business going as they continue to learn and grow.<br>

Maria posting that link and seeing your response actually helps me. I am by nature a graphic designer who uses photography. But I've been trying to grow in it with shooting portraits, events, some products and weddings. Being a graphic designer, I am used to photo editing and effects and seeing examples of how too much is too much in editing vs simply really nice/creative/technically good shots straight from the camera.</p>

<p> </p>

[lindsay_dobson]

<p>Maria, calm down please, I'm exhausted just listening to you! It's perfectly OK to have a strong opinion. But pause for breath for a moment and let me suggest that your friend (if one presumes she hired the photographer herself) was satisfied with what she saw when she viewed examples of that photographer's work. Maybe she did some research and compared that work with the work of other photographers and was still satisfied (not everyone can judge a good shot from a terrible one) or maybe she did none of those things are hired the first person she came across. Perhaps your friend couldn't afford a more experienced and better prepared photographer, or maybe she just didn't want to pay the going rates for one (that is pretty common these days). Either way, Caveat Emptor. My point is there have always been bad photographers (and I am old enough to remember) and there are all sorts of clients out there, some are discerning, some who are happy with the sort of images that you or I or the next person might find completely unacceptable .....</p>

 

[picturesque]

<p><strong>Moderator Note:</strong></p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>I have EVERY RIGHT to post my OPINION about ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. If you don't like it either ignore my responses and take yourself off the instant alerts for this thread or move out of this country, and preferably go to one without internet service. OR you can comment back and we can keep this thread alive and well so maybe we can end up back to the topic of this discussion which is </em></p>

<h1>complaining about <em>other people's</em> bad wedding photos</h1>

<p>Does this forum NOT SUPPORT the right to complain? I didn't read any disclosures about that anywhere... not even on the website of the person who's link I used as an example. If you have a website maybe you will want to add that type of disclosure somewhere. Either on your portfolio page, your About Us page, or better yet your CONTACT US page. It could go something like this : <em>Contact us about anything OTHER THAN A COMPLAINT. For that you could go directly to <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.bbb.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bbb.org/</a> this way we can all be happy 8-)</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Maria, photo.net does not censure your right to express your opinion about any photographer's work. However, photo.net has guidelines about forum behavior. The following is from photo.net's Terms of Use.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>We encourage the sharing of ideas and opinions on the topic of photography, but photo.net is not an "anything goes" website. Photo.net users come from all locations and backgrounds, and have diverse thoughts, beliefs, and feelings. Keep this in mind when you participate in the community, and treat others with respect. <strong>Postings that attack another person's motivation, intelligence, or character degrade the quality of the discussion and discourage thoughtful comments by others.</strong> There are many places on the internet where you are welcome to have moral or political arguments, however, in almost every case, photo.net is not one of them. Neither is this community a place for you to harass, abuse, threaten, or otherwise bother other members, and it's not a place for you to do anything illegal. We don't want to kick you out of the community, but if you do any of these things, we will. So don't do them.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Just a reminder.</p>

[maria_papas]

<p>WOW Nadine, I didn't know I was attacking<strong> another person's motivation, intelligence, or character. </strong>It seems to me that I was the one under attack for participating in the discussion.<br>

FOR EXAMPLE: <br>

<em><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=22127">Mike Dixon</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"><img title="Moderator" src="../v3graphics/member-status-icons/mod.gif" alt="" /><img title="Subscriber" src="../v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub10plus.gif" alt="" /><img title="Current POW Recipient" src="../v3graphics/member-status-icons/trophy.gif" alt="" /></a>, May 31, 2011; 06:02 a.m.</em><br>

<em>What's more disturbing is having people (who, not surprisingly, have no photos of their own they're willing to share) post links and offer genuinely nasty comments about other people's work.</em><br>

wasn't that a <strong><strong>Postings that attack another person's motivation, intelligence, or character degrade the quality of the discussion and discourage thoughtful comments by others?</strong></strong><br>

Thankfully for me mister Marc Williams proves that point without me having to say so.<br>

<em><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=453741">Marc Williams</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"><img title="Subscriber" src="../v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub10.gif" alt="" /><img title="Current POW Recipient" src="../v3graphics/member-status-icons/trophy.gif" alt="" /></a>, May 31, 2011; 08:16 a.m. posted "Who cares if some "offending" photographer is on this forum or not? " </em><br>

Didn't that pretty much spell it out for you, Nadine, that Mr Dixon was implicitly making that remark about me? That is why I specifically targeted Mr. Dixon in my 3rd post (<a href="../photodb/user?user_id=5922512">Maria Papas</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"></a>, May 31, 2011; 10:25 a.m.) where I spelled it out for him that I AM NOT A "PHOTOGRAPHER" I am a "CONSUMER". He attacked me first, by insinuating that I am a <em><strong>cowardly</strong></em> "offending photographer" on the hunt to criticize other photographers. Mr. Williams was just as quick to pick up on it.<br>

I was FLAT OUT DEFENDING MYSELF and you jumped right into the mele to hold my hands behind my back while others took their free for all punches. </p>

<p>I really enjoyed all of the comments posted by everybody else in this discussion. Nadine, you allowed Wade to vent, yet I wasn't allowed to? If you go on the website I posted earlier and take a look at the children's photos you will see one photo that stood out to me at least. It's one of a little girl who's eyes were made to look SO BLUE she reminded me of the exorcist. I can't even BEGIN to tell you how bad my friend's photos are. The pics you are looking at just happen to be this photographer's "cream of the crop". Can you at least try to use your imagination as to how bad my friends photos could possibly be?<br>

Then Nadine, you don't comment about the people who posted: "Anyways, meet me in the smoking section after 4th period <em><strong>Walt." </strong></em> That was so funny I totally forgot to laugh Nadine! BUT I WAS THE ONE WHO <strong><strong>Postings that attack another person's motivation, intelligence, or character degrade the quality of the discussion and discourage thoughtful comments by others?</strong></strong><br>

<strong>PLEASE. That was aimed specifically at me Nadine, yet you turned a blind eye to that one too. </strong><br>

<strong>PS. to </strong>Mr. Ellington: I agree that simple is best, but sometimes pictures do need a little work. </p>

[joshroot]

<p>I think we're done here.</p>

<p>Critiquing other pro photographer's work in the context of a discussion of the business of being a pro, or of doing wedding photography is one thing. We are a community of photographers and this is specifically a forum within that community where most everyone is a working pro (or aspires to be).</p>

<p>However, Photo.net is not a place for random rants about photographers you feel have done you wrong. While there are situations where that sort of thing might be appropriate, they are fairly narrowly defined. And this thread, or at least what it has become, does not fit that definition.</p>

<p>Say goodnight, Gracie. Thread closed.</p>