How should I store my equipment properbly to prevent fungus?

[khiem_le1]

<p>Hi everyone,<br /> So, here is my story:<br /> Recently, I got a used 135mm AI from ebay and noticed there is quite a bit of fungus on the lens (too late, i left a positive feedback before checking the item carefully, this is a valuable lesson for me). The affected area is on the rear element and I think it's inside! However, it's not too big (and not too unnoticeable): it's a circular area with the diameter of approximately 2mm located on the edge of element.</p>

<p>I haven't thought too much about fungus since I started the photography hobby, but until now, after getting a fungal lens, I feel a bit unsecured. I understand spores are everywhere in the air, and fungus only start to grow when it has enough humidity and nutrition, but the fear of the fact that this lens will spread the fungi to my other (unaffected) lenses just keeps bugging me. So, I just have a few questions regarding this:</p>

<ol>

<li>I store all my equipment in a DIY dry-box, so is it ok to store the affected lens with other lenses and the body in the same box? What is the likelihood of spreading the fungus to other lenses? </li>

<li>My drybox was made by putting quite a few of silica desiccant into a 60 litres airtight box and a hygrometer was also put in there. After placing about 2 brand new boxes of <strong>DampRid</strong> into my 'home-made-dry-box', the relative humidity drops from 60% to something like 26% in about 5-7 hours and is maintained at 25-26%. At first, I thought this relative humidity (RH) is ok, but after reading quite a few online articles, some recommended to stay between 30-40%. So, my question is: is somewhere from 25-30% ok? Is it too dry? Have you ever seen any case where the lens' rubber part or lubricant being dried out? This is what my dry-box looks like <img src="http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll139/4changbatluc/Adelaide%20trip/DSC_2175.jpg" alt="" width="1000" height="665" /></li>

<li>I placed the affected lens in a smaller box (20x10x5cm) and place a smaller pack full of silica desiccant (5x10cm) inside. My hope is to make it as dry as possible to stop the fungal growth and hopefully it kills the fungus. I know it's kind of impossible to kill it completely, but I hope it just does not keep growing. My question is: putting quite a large amount of silica in a relatively small box will make it a bit dry, I guess the RH in that smaller box would be something less than 20%, so is this safe for the lens? I need to balance the risk of fungal growth and the risk of drying out the lubricant of the lens or its rubber part. Since I got this lens quite cheap actually, $100 incl. shipping to Australia, I wouldn't want to spend couples of hundred to get it cleaned. Do you have any "trick" to remove the fungus? </li>

<li>I heard people saying placing the lens under the sun for hours can possibly kill the fungus, some also say this can damage the coating, what do you think? </li>

</ol>

<p>The humidity here in Adelaide, Australia is not too humid compared to other tropic countries. The environment RH is about 60 to 65% and this is not good for optical equipment, therefore I think storing equipment in a drier place is an essential thing to do.<br /> Thank you in advance for your opinions,<br /> Khiem</p>

[chris_letts]

<p>As per a previous question (April 28, 2008) sunlight does not kill fungus.<br>

Are you 100% sure it's fungus ? I know it can happen but it seems to me strange that fungus can find its way into the inside of a lens.</p>

[khiem_le1]

<p>Thank you Chris for your answer.<br>

I am 95% sure it's fungus, cos it looks like what I can see from typing "fungus lens" in google, but this is a very mild case.</p>

<p>I am about 70% sure it's inside, because I tried to touch & remove it with the cotton tip but nothing moved so I think it's inside. So, fungus is usually outside, not inside the element?</p>

[luis_g]

<p>Do a search. This topic has been treated here before. I would isolate the infected lens from the others, and not keep it in your bag. Put it in a sealed baggie and leave it be. One thing to keep in mind is that your dry-box looks far from airtight, meaning it is drawing humidity from the air outside of it <em>into </em>the box, as the silica absorbs it.</p>

<p>Google "tropical cabinet", or search for it on PN, we've discussed the proper construction for such a thing, and it frees you from 1) Having to purchase an airtight case 2) Having to endlessly cycle the silica gel, and 3) from the gel drawing humidity to itself. The silica method is good for travel, and for anal types, the cabinet requires less attention.</p>

[khiem_le1]

<p>Thanks, Luis, for your opinion about isolating the affected lens.</p>

<p>I also stuck the weather strip around the edge of the lid to isolate the box and prevent humidity going inside the box when it's close. That is why after closing the box, the RH is usually stabilized at 25-26% and it hardly goes up unless I open it.<br /> I've been using this box for about 2 months and the silica gel is still working great (judgment is based on looking at the silica particle, if it absorbs moisture, it becomes very shiny and wet; and the ability for it to maintain a certain RH). I think I am ok with the box construction. Thanks for the keyword you gave me, I will search more on this forum to find more about this. The (only) other thing I am not too sure (as mentioned at the beginning) is if the RH that I'm having now too dry for my equipment which can possibly causes some damages in the future.</p>

<p>Khiem</p>

[jim_momary]

<p>" <em>I also stuck the weather strip around the edge of the lid to isolate the box and prevent humidity going inside the box when it's close.</em> "</p>

<p>Is the weather stipping a rubber tube or foam? If it is foam and easily compressible, then it is likely open cell foam. That won't hardly stop humidity from entering at all. Closed cell foam is much stiffer and will not allow water vapor to pass thru. Google closed cell versus open cell foam for more info. In the industrial and lab world what you are after is termed a "hermetic seal".<br>

Just some info<br>

Jim</p>

[wogears]

<p>The bad news: fungal spores can survive for millenia. The good news: I think that your lens is a very simple teardown. I <em>believe</em> that it is only necessary to remove the rear group (actually a single element convex lens). IIRC, a spanner is not required, only a high-quality precision screwdriver. You will then have access to the damaged surface, and can clean off the fungus with a lens tissue and a few drops of methanol (Eclipse® fluid).</p>

[leighb]

<p>The nutrient for fungus on camera lenses is magnesium fluoride, which is the coating applied to the glass.</p>

<p>The waste product is hydrofluoric acid, which etches glass.</p>

<p>Isolate the lens in a sealed plastic bag and keep it well away from all other lenses.</p>

<p>If it were mine I'd just throw it out and buy another. Risking infection of other lenses is just not worth the cost of a replacing this one.</p>

<p>- Leigh</p>

[carl_becker2]

<p>From what I have read it is not possible to remove the fungus completely. Do some research. I would not store the lens with the rest of my equipment either. Consider it a lesson paperweight for reminding.</p>

[Sanford]

<p>My apartment comes equipped with a dehumidifier (I think a previous landlord got sued for mold). I keep my camera gear near this machine. I don't know if it helps but this contraption draws an unbelievable amount of water out of the air daily. I have some of those moisture absorbing packs in the camera bag I keep in the car but other than buying a new pairs of shoes I don't have a good source for them.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Actually, my house is not a bad place to store Nikon lenses. I live in California and it is quite dry year around, and of course I take good care of lenses. Perhaps the only hitch is that I am in an earthquake zone, although the risk for tsunami is low here.</p>

<p>Wanna send your lenses to me? :-)</p>

[JDMvW]

<blockquote>

<p>it seems to me strange that fungus can find its way into the inside of a lens</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Lenses are by no means airtight, and this is especially true of zoom lenses and other lenses that lengthen and shorten as they are used -- drawing in air -- and sometimes spores and other crud.</p>

<p>Inside the lens can be a very nice incubation place for the fungal spores, and when fungus is present it is <strong><em>usually</em></strong> on the <strong><em>inside</em></strong> of the lens.</p>

<p>Cleaning is a crap shoot. If caught early the fungus might be easily removed, but the growth can literally etch the surface of the glass, and short of regrinding the lens with all that implies, there's no very practical work around.</p>

<p>The best way to store photo-equipment to avoid this is to move to some rural part of the desert Southwest well away from any rivers, streams, or reservoirs. Outside the USA, a good spot is somewhere in the Sahara or Gobi.</p>

[khiem_le1]

<p>Thanks all for your opinions,</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I <em>believe</em> that it is only necessary to remove the rear group (actually a single element convex lens). IIRC, a spanner is not required, only a high-quality precision screwdriver. You will then have access to the damaged surface, and can clean off the fungus with a lens tissue and a few drops of methanol (Eclipse® fluid).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Hi Les, I have just opened and took out the rear element of this 135mm f/2.8 AI and clean it. It was not too difficult to get the element out (the glass is actually attached to a tube, so im not sure if it's called a group or an element, there's only 1 piece of glass though). The fungus was a bit mild, so it was not too difficult to clean using just simple and gentle lens cleaner. Cleaning without leaving streak on the glass is not too easy though. Everything is intact again, photos can be taken, but not sure if anything gonna happen in the long term. I just store it in a separate air tight box with silica inside anyway, just to be a safe side, prevent it from spreading the fungus to others.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Is the weather stipping a rubber tube or foam? If it is foam and easily compressible, then it is likely open cell foam.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Hi Jim, mine is the foam and yes, it is easily compressed. Thanks for the idea and I'll try to get some closed cell foam for my drybox. That was what I intended to buy too, but I just couldn't find a way to describe it to the guy at <em>Bunning Warehouse</em> at my place.</p>

<p>With regards to the relative humidity (like in my question at the begining), do you thinking 25% is too low and that is likely to cause damage? Or is it the lower the better, as long as not any lower than 5-10%?</p>

<p>P.S: I now have the habit of examining all my lenses to see if it had caught any of the fungus from 'the neighbour' :'( whenever I open the box.</p>

[robert_hooper1]

<p>Two previous posts:</p>

<p>1) I have tried lots of things over the years but nothing has been as successful as my homemade dehumidifing cabinet. You can make one yourself with the following:<br>

1. Metal cabinet<br />2. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.goldenroddehumidifiers.com/" target="_blank">Golden Rod</a> or the Browning equivilant, which you can buy <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001AQO2S4/nmphotonet-20" target="_blank">here</a>.<br />3. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102825" target="_blank">Computer cooling fan</a><br />4. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013BKDO8/nmphotonet-20" target="_blank">Hygrometer/thermometer</a><br>

Install the rod across the bottom inside rear of the cabinet along with the fan. Fan placement is not critical as just a small amount of air movement within the cabinet is necessary.<br>

<strong>Do not seal the cabinet! Air convection between outside and inside air is necessary for this system to work properly and prevent overheating.</strong><br>

Place the hygrometer/thermometer anywhere in the cabinet. Humidity should be maintained below 70% to prevent the growth of fungus. Don't worry, the rod will maintain the humidity well below 70%.<br>

In my cabinate you will notice two florescent light bulbs. One or two of these will work in leu of the Golden Rod. Each bulb is equivalent to a 100w tungsten bulb, but do not produce as much heat. I used to use these bulbs before I found the Golden Rod product which is better.<br>

There you have it. Email me if you have any questions.</p>

<p>2) You can store your equipment in the closet, but don't put it in plastic bags. Air needs to circulate around your gear. Purchase a 36" dehumidifying rod or whatever size you need to keep the humidity within your closet consistently below 70%, (60% is preferable). Also, purchase a digital hygrometer to keep track of the humidity. Depending on the size of your closet, you may need to double up on the rods. Don't worry, they use very little electricity. Use this method, and I guarantee your camera gear will remain fungus free during long term storage.<br /> I use this same principle here in humid Hawaii, only I have a rod installed in a large metal cabinet devoted to storing optical equipment. I've never had problems with fungus since I started using this very simple but effective method. Sealing your gear in plastic bags or anything over time, even with a desiccant, is asking for trouble.<br /> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EX83RU/nmphotonet-20" target="_blank"></a><br>

<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EX83RU/nmphotonet-20" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-TM005X-Wireless-Thermo-Hygrometer/dp/B000EX83RU</a><br /> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.goldenroddehumidifiers.com/introduction.htm" target="_blank">http://www.goldenroddehumidifiers.com/introduction.htm</a></p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>What's wrong with good old-fashioned Silica Gel? This only needs re-activating by placing in a microwave for a minute or two every so often - about once or twice a month depending on conditions.</p>

<p>One way to kill fungus is to use a chlorate household bleach, or baby-bottle sterilising tablets; they're the same thing really. No, it doesn't damage the lens coating, but yes, it's not good for the alloy mounting, so only use it if the affected lens element(s) can be completely freed from the rest of the lens. I'm not convinced that the sunlight thing doesn't work, since it's well-known that fungus doesn't thrive in UV radiation.</p>

[khiem_le1]

<p>Hi Robert, thank you for quoting the two previous posts. With regard to the GoldenRod, according to its explaination of how the system works, I can partially understand why we may need air circulation in the container. However, I doubt that we may need that system just for camera or optical equipment storage. I don't see a point where heating up about several degress higer than outside tempeture is going to be more beneficial for storage of optic equipment than just using simple dessicant. The concept of forcing the moist air outside the container seems resonable, but I think heat might not be too good for the camera, esp in the countries where the average ambient temperature is already quite high (tropical countries for example).</p>

<p>Why don't we just use the traditional method of placing the silica dessicants inside an air tight container? All we want to acheive is to maintain the dry-box at certain RH level and silica can do this job well. </p>

<p>Back to my question, is 25% too low that gonna do some damages?</p>

[robert_hooper1]

<blockquote>

<p>Hi Robert, thank you for quoting the two previous posts. With regard to the GoldenRod, according to its explaination of how the system works, I can partially understand why we may need air circulation in the container. However, I doubt that we may need that system just for camera or optical equipment storage. I don't see a point where heating up about several degress higer than outside tempeture is going to be more beneficial for storage of optic equipment than just using simple dessicant. The concept of forcing the moist air outside the container seems resonable, but I think heat might not be too good for the camera, esp in the countries where the average ambient temperature is already quite high (tropical countries for example).</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>As a rule of thumb, if you keep the storage area 10 degrees Fahrenheit above ambient temperature, relative humidity will be below the point at which fungus will grow. I have been using the above described dehumidifying methods for 22 years here in Hawaii with no detrimental effects to my camera equipment, and absolutely no fungus problems. This is exactly the method Carl Zeiss AG recommended to me years ago when I called and asked them for help. They sent me a lengthy printed Zeiss report regarding the problem of keeping optics in the tropics free from fungus, and the plans for building a dehumidifying cabinet which used two light bulbs as a heat source. I built such a cabinet at the time. Today I use the GoldenRod product instead of light bulbs for a heat source.</p>

<p>Desiccant can become saturated quickly in all but absolutely impermeable containers. Zip lock bags and regular plastic storage containers do not meet this criterion. Proper large sealed storage containers require large amounts, (pounds), of silica gel. Opening sealed storage containers to remove and replace equipment introduces moisture laden air into the container, further saturating the silica gel. For me, desiccants in sealed containers did not work to prevent fungal growth and were inconvenient to use as a professional photographer.</p>