Which M Leica for a student with a budget? Please Advise!

[doug_brody1]

I am a student with the means to buy a new system over time. I have a huge

Nikon collection, but when I got my hands on a Voigtlander Bessa-L w/15mm

heliar I got hooked on "the feel." My style has definatly changed. I own an

F100 but use an FM with my grandad's 50 1.4 or my 35 f/2(when not using the

voigt!) because it just suits my style now.

Logically I should by the bessa r and lenses accordingly, but If I start building

a kit now, why not make it the best to start with, even if it means starting small.

I have a long "photographic life" (as sam abell would say) to live and want get

into Leica lenses from the get-go.

They cost some major money though. How can I get started? Any downside

to an old M body? Am I wrong not to get a cheaper/lower quality brand?

Please help me make an informed decision.

Sincerely,

Doug Brody

[jati]

leica and budget dont even belong in the same sentence.

whether you buy new or old, if you want one, youre going to kick

out some dough. you have a f100, so obviously youre not new to

spending big money on your gear. whatever you did to get that

nikon, apply that and a little more to get your leica. i took out a

small loan to get my first one. you gotta pay to play.......<div></div>

[joshroot]

Either get an R2 body to start with and spend some money on Leica glass. Or get an M6 "classic" and spend a little money on some Voigt lenses.

[james_.1]

Start simple, like maybe a used M6 with a 35? Figure out what your lens array will want to be, and start with the all-around lens. Danger though! The compulsion to add lenses sooner than thought will set in. : )

[andy_piper2]

Doug:

 

The Bessa-L/15mm is what did it for me, too! - although I made a detour into Contax G before swinging back to Leica.

 

Realistically, you have several avenues:

 

Bessa-R2 with used Leica lens(es) - any of the 35s or 50s ever made in M-mount will get you rolling and the camera comes with a warranty (if you can figure out who honors it) - about $1100 total. A CV lens will cut that a bit and basically the CV lenses will match anything but the very latest Leica lenses. You can always hang onto the Bessa as a second body for as long as it lasts. The differences from the Leica (a little noise, a little less accurate, a little lighter, different loading) are small compared to the big overall similarity (rangefinder viewing!).

 

Used unmetered Leica bodies - as someone's sure to mention, you should plan for a probable servicing ($250 average) for older cameras to get/keep the shutter and RF alignment in shape. Also factor in the cost of a good compact meter.

 

A late (post 1990) used M6 'classic' is probably the best value for money - less likely to need servicing, has a meter, and will be about $1000-1200 - not much more than (and possibly less than) the older unmetered but collectible bodies.

 

Frankly, the main reason I 'upgraded' from older M4-variant bodies to M6ttls was to get the .58 'wide-angle' finder - otherwise they did great by me.

[andy_piper2]

Addendum:

 

The classic 'student Leica' was - of course - always an M2 - the more beaten the better! They've gotten a leetle pricey over the past two decades (I once picked up a couple for $595 each) - but you may get lucky.

[richard_ilomaki]

Doug:

 

Here comes some heresy: why do you want a Leica, if you can make pictures like the one you posted, with what you have now?

 

Save the money, buy film and airplane tickets, then when you retire a Leica will look good on you.

 

Check out the post yesterday by Ken Rockwood about the seven levels of photography. It is headed "check this out" or something like that.

 

Cheers.

[kaiblanke]

I guess from your description that you are more after the manual rangefinder style in general than Leica in special. That would give you the following options in my eyes:

1. Bodies: Depending on what you want to spend, you can get a M6 body for about $1000, or a user M2 (even a cleaned one if you are lucky) for something like $500. At least these are the german e*ay prices right now. The Bessa R is too expensive for what it does, the R2 is better value but a M2 may give you the real thing while being even cheaper. If buying a M2 you also need a meter: Used ones with incident metering will cost you about $30-100, depending on the model. A Leicameter is in the same range which basically gives you a metered body. Another option would be a small Leica CL which is about the same as the Bessa R2 and the M2.

2. Lenses: Voigtlaender is amaying value for money, but so is the 50/2 Hexanon from Konica. Leica glass is expensive new and used, but the 40/2 is a great all-around lens that can be found for about $250.

 

HTH - Kai

[doug_brody1]

Thanks for all the advice, but I would appreciate even more.

A couple more questions?

Why a used, beat up M2 over a new Bessa?

What is a good way to finance a system? The fiscal prospects of a 1st year

college student are not hot. Summer jobs are a long way away.

Thanks,

Doug

PS, that posted photo was posted by the first poster, Jati. By the way, Jati, that

is a great shot. Can you tell me what focal length that is?

[michael_kastner]

If you say you would appreciate even more advice, here's mine. I was a student too (now being married and having 2 kids, I have even less money than in those days) so think it over a lot, and if you REALLY love Leica, sell everything you can and get a Leica. I myself would say think it over again, decide on ONE body (I'd take a used M6TTL) and on ONE lens (I'd take any 2/35, an older non-ASPH is of course less expensive). IF after many years you still love these things enough, THEN start elaborating.

[kaiblanke]

A beat up, but cleaned M2 will hold it's value much better than a Bessa. If you ever plan to sell a body you will get about the same as you paid. If you have both bodies (Leica / Voigtlaender) in your hand you can feel the difference. The Leicas are built to last for decades while the Bessa seems to last only one (which has yet to be proved of course).

But mainly this is personal preference, the bessa has a built-in meter and is newer while an old M is much more solid but misses the meter.

[chip l.]

While it won't be too much of a diffference; Leica does have a student program (if you qualify). I believe it is 20% off the normal everyday price.

 

Chip

[xav]

The big advantage in buying used Leica bodies and lenses is you can often resell them at the same price you bought them...

[phill kneen]

Doug, old Chinese proverb says:

 

" There is no such thing as a 'cheap' Leica, just an 'affordable' one "

[bishop_vc]

Doug,

 

Can you give us an idea what your budget is?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[james_elwing]

Keep what you have Nikon wise; sounds reasonable. The M Leica to buy is the cheapest fully operational; double wind M3 or M4/2, whatever; you are buying the same focussing accuracy and quiet shutter. Be a bit wary of a camera with obvious problems, and no warranty; can be expensive; check infinity focus with a lens fitted. Might be best to try for a package with at least a fair standard lens.

Despite what anybody says, all have a good life expectancy with minimal maintenance unless you are heading for the antarctic etc.

Don't be afraid of private sale, but take a friend when you look at it, just like a second hand car, to stop you getting carried away.

Get a reasonable hand-held meter; Lunasix or similar

Get an M clone later, if you want it. All of my modern cameras stuff up while my M3's keep rolling along

James Elwing

[ed_balko3]

Contributing perhaps an even greater heresy-

 

You might want to determine, inexpensively, if rangefinder photography is something that would warrant a considerable financial investment from you prior to making that investment.

 

I suggest that you buy a LSM Russian rangefinder from a reputable source such as Yuri at Fedka.com (get it from Yuri and it will work properly - a Zorki 1 or Zorki 3m would be good choices). Go out and shoot 300 or 500 rolls of film in it; take it with you everywhere. When you've done this you will have formed some clear opinions about using RF equipment and will be in a better position to choose what Leica equipment you'll need in the future.

[richard_newton2]

When I was a student, the conflict was also between Leica and Nikon. I didn't get into Leica until after my student years were over much to my regret.

 

Unless you need thru the lens light metering, get an M2 or M3 depending on the focal length you use. Either viewfinder is a delight in its simplicity. I use my M2 more now then my M6TTL. Get a digisix meter as it is small and light and can do incident metering.

 

Finally, you will be able to sell any used Leica gear for what you paid for it if you shop carefully. A Bressa R2 will get you 10 cents on the dollar two years from now.

[jati]

i shot that with a m6 ttl and 35 summicron.

[jhodges]

Doug,

 

I just answered the same question for myself, and was about to post about my M2 when I read your post. First of all, I started in High School on a Nikon FM and 50/1.4. I quickly bought more and more lenses. I had a 24/2.8, 70-210/4, 85/2, 35/2, and tons of other accessories. All of it was stolen at JFK airport when my father was mailing it to me in the Balkans. Thank God I had it insured. I bought a Nikon F3HP, 50/1.2, 24/2.8, and 85/2. However, I became interested in Leicas before I bought the F3. I also bought a Minox B and Minox 35GT to satisfy my desire for a small mechanical, user-controlled camera. These are all great cameras, but I still wanted a Leica. I decided to keep things extremely simple. A body, a 50/2 Summicron, and a 35/2 Summicron. Later I may buy a 50/2.8 Elmar and a 15mm Heliar. For now I have just purchased a used 50/2 Summicron (black) and a used M2 with MR meter (Thank you Tony). I will be quite happy with this for a while. Don't worry, take your time. I'm going for simplicity here. What better way than an old Leica? Good luck, and get what you like. Even if it takes a while.

 

John

[furcafe]

As much as I love my old shooting irons, if I were in your position I would recommend going w/a Bessa R2 body (which will be almost cetainly much cheaper than any used M in working condition), selling 1 of the SLR bodies, & using the extra $$ for the best glass or film (or a film scanner) that you can afford.

[jaime_font1]

I am also a student who has ended with (who came from nikon, bored to be the boy who always carries that big camera). I started with a M6TTL mint and a new 50 cron. I think that's the stardard decision. And an equilibrated ($$) one. I was so worried to sell all my big 4X 8X ... zoom lenses (from 24 to 400mm) and the thing is it became a liberating decission. Now that i have been 3 years in this leica world, i think my only regret is having choosen the 0.85 vf. IT's my opinion, but i think rangefinders (and leica style photography) is at it's best with an angular (28cron....) and a 50cron (you can carry both with one body and the lens carrier gadget). It is then when you can take photos in the middle of the action, without being noticed...

Good luck with your new enterprise, and remember, keep it simple, and take pictures.

[patricks]

I'm with wise Mr. Chen on this one! Get an R2 and look around for a minty used Summicron 50/2 and you should get away with just over $1,000. Learn/live with that system.

 

Or buy a Hexar RF kit.

 

Don't waste all your money/youth on buying ultra-expensive Leica gear. It will always be around and you can pick one up in a few years. Being a student is not about owning the most expensive/famous/presigious camera system in the world, and I would hate to make you "camera-poor" by cheering you on to buy a Leica outfit, i.e. no money to travel, buy a bike, music, food, school books, a laptop etc, just because you spent it all on Leica.

 

If you cannot get the Leica buy out of your system, get some extra jobs until you have extra money to spend on it, don't sink all of your saving/cash into one.

 

Best of luck with your photography!

[jay bee]

Take a look at this article. Its not an "M", but you get the leica glass...

 

http://www.lhsa.org/pdf/vf351LeicaPhotography.pdf

[patricks]

nice shot, Jati. I went to your re-designed website and check out the portfolio. some powerful photos in there.

 

what film/developer do you use?