connecting with venues

rippo · March 3, 2011

I'm a full-time portrait photographer, and am adding weddings to my services. The marketing is a little different for weddings…hardly any word of mouth or referrals with portraits, but it's vital with weddings!

So. Reception venues have lists of photographers, often have albums of some of them, and they (presumably) recommend these photographers to their clients.

1. How does one get on the list with a venue?

2. How difficult is it?

3. What are the venues looking for from a photographer?

4. Is this a big source of referrals?

Thanks!

-Matt

cliff_nj · March 4, 2011

With the large venues here, all you need is $10,000 and you're on the list.

rippo · March 4, 2011

Yikes! Thanks Cliff. Is that typical elsewhere too, this "pay per view" referrals? (Asking others.)

david_schilling___chicago_ · March 4, 2011

Why not call some of your local venues? Or do a search of the archived threads?

William Michael · March 4, 2011

I'm a full-time portrait photographer, and am adding weddings to my services. The marketing is a little different for weddings…hardly any word of mouth or referrals with portraits, but it's vital with weddings!

</blockquote>

If you are not getting new business from referrals from your previous portrait sittings, then I offer you the opportunity to revisit that marketing strategy and look at the possibility that referrals could be the richest source of new Portrait Work.

I think l that should be your first step.

I think that should be your first step, because:

Reception venues have lists of photographers, often have albums of some of them, and they (presumably) recommend these photographers to their clients.

</blockquote>

1. How does one get on the list with a venue?

Create a meaningful relationship with the Venue Manager.

2. How difficult is it?

Not difficult if one is skilled at creating Rapport.

3. What are the venues looking for from a photographer?

Venues don’t look for anything – People have Requirements

4. Is this a big source of referrals?

For our Studio it was – yes - the venue managers and the referrals from Clients.

Do you have business cards?

If yes – what is on the back side of the card?

If yes - at this very minute - how many do you have on your person?

WW

rippo · March 5, 2011

Thanks for all your responses.

David: I don't want to look clueless to a venue, so I thought I'd ask fellow photographers first. First impressions can be lasting.

William:

If you are not getting new business from referrals from your previous portrait sittings, then I offer you the opportunity to revisit that marketing strategy and look at the possibility that referrals could be the richest source of new Portrait Work. I think l that should be your first step.

</blockquote>

I do actively pursue referrals from my clients. I even ask them to send out custom printed postcards (with their image on them) to their friends, which many of them are happy to do. It very rarely yields anything. One of the most expensive photographers in my area has confided that he experiences the same thing: there is hardly any referral business in portraits. Weddings yes, portraits no. I *do* get repeat portrait customers. But very few referrals from portrait customers. I'd love to actually have referrals in great numbers with my portrait business, and welcome suggestions and ideas. But it's probably a topic for another forum.

3. What are the venues looking for from a photographer? Venues don’t look for anything – People have Requirements

</blockquote>

I am of course using "venue" as shorthand for "people who work at venues and make decisions".

So contrary to Cliff's experience, you're able to be a 'preferred photographer' (or otherwise recommended) by a venue based on personal relationships? That I can do…that just takes time. $10k on the other hand is a hurdle I don't want to jump! Does it logically follow then that this sort of referral marketing is something to consider down the road, rather than right now?

Do you have business cards?

If yes – what is on the back side of the card? If yes - at this very minute - how many do you have on your person?

</blockquote>

I've seen you ask this of other people. :)

Yes, I do.

Currently the flip side has the URL for my model-portfolio site, as I do some of that work as well. However I've just done a complete rebranding and site redesign, and ordered new business cards a few days ago. The back side of the new cards has an eye-catching and unique graphic that draws the viewer into flipping them over. I felt this was more focused than the current ones.

Just checked. I have three in my wallet, with a backup stash in my car. (Just gave a few out when I met with a client and the venue personnel a few days ago, haven't replenished yet)

William Michael · March 5, 2011

“One of the most expensive photographers in my area has confided that he experiences the same thing: there is hardly any referral business in portraits. Weddings yes, portraits no. I *do* get repeat portrait customers. But very few referrals from portrait customers. I'd love to actually have referrals in great numbers with my portrait business, and welcome suggestions and ideas. But it's probably a topic for another forum.”

</blockquote>

No problem. I agree that markets and market responses will vary around the globe as will the marketting techniques of expensive photographers – but yes another conversation. However, I do think there is more milk in your can.

"I am of course using "venue" as shorthand for "people who work at venues and make decisions". . ."

</blockquote>

Yes. Understood. I was not pointing out to you that the venue was inanimate for any pristine pedantic pomp – I was heading down the road to the importance of creating Rapport, in a long term Relationship.

So contrary to Cliff's experience, you're able to be a 'preferred photographer' (or otherwise recommended) by a venue based on personal relationships?

</blockquote>

Absolutely. Yes.

That I can do…that just takes time.

</blockquote>

I think that is good. Search “Herb Cohen” – you can leverage, to shorten “Time”.

$10k on the other hand is a hurdle I don't want to jump!

</blockquote>

I would not go there – and never have. That is NOT Rapport.

Does it logically follow then that this sort of referral marketing is something to consider down the road, rather than right now?

</blockquote>

This questing is confusing to me as it could have two meanings. I shall answer it both ways: “Does it logically follow then that this sort of referral marketing [meaning the $10,000 payment type] is something to consider down the road, rather than right now?” No, It is my opinion never to consider that, in this situation. "Does it logically follow then that this sort of referral marketing [meaning creating a relationship that will take time] is something to consider down the road, rather than right now?" You should have begun it eighty minutes ago, when you were responding to this thread.

Yes, I do [have business cards].

</blockquote>

Fantastic!

Currently the flip side has the URL for my model-portfolio site, as I do some of that work as well. However I've just done a complete rebranding and site redesign, and ordered new business cards a few days ago. The back side of the new cards has an eye-catching and unique graphic that draws the viewer into flipping them over. I felt this was more focused than the current ones.

</blockquote>

Sounds great. I would not use those though for my businesses, as I couldn’t write anything on the back side.

The new business cards are "more focused": more focussed - on what, specifically?

Just checked. I have three in my wallet, with a backup stash in my car. (Just gave a few out when I met with a client and the venue personnel a few days ago, haven't replenished yet).

</blockquote>

OK - I like the style. Three is not enough, though. As I have to play by the same rules – I just checked - 24 in my wallet. Box of 1000 in the car, about 200 used.

Hope this is good fodder for your brain-box.

I like your style apropos creating “Rapport”.

WW

frankjin · March 5, 2011

If you've never done any weddings at the venue, to get on the list is near impossible. My experience with many venues is that they make their own decision on who to recommend if asked, typically no more than 4 or 5. Take a look at <a href="http://wexii.com">Wexii.com</a>, a quite unique way to connect with venues and other vendors.

david_schilling___chicago_ · March 5, 2011

I understand not wanting to look clueless to the venues but by not doing a search of old threads or any prior research and posting such a broad open-ended question..... that is how you look here on the forum. You'll find many prior threads under marketing and tons of info on first weddings, the business, etc... Also, a common suggestion is to network with local pros in your area.

rippo · March 5, 2011

William W:

"Does it logically follow then that this sort of referral marketing [meaning creating a relationship that will take time] is something to consider down the road, rather than right now?" You should have begun it eighty minutes ago, when you were responding to this thread.

</blockquote>

Yes that's the way I meant it. Thanks.

Sounds great. I would not use those though for my businesses, as I couldn’t write anything on the back side. The new business cards are "more focused": more focussed - on what, specifically?

</blockquote>

I feel that having a second URL on the back was diluting my message. While my old business cards are memorable and have people often go "oooh", I needed them to be less general.

I have never written on the back of one of my cards, nor felt the urge to. :)

OK - I like the style. Three is not enough, though. As I have to play by the same rules – I just checked - 24 in my wallet. Box of 1000 in the car, about 200 used.

</blockquote>

I must blame the fact that I use a money clip. So there are only so many cards I can fit in there. But rest assured, I am NEVER without business cards. I bring extras in a pocket to any meet n greet, and have the backup supply in the car as mentioned. I'm with you on business cards, even if the numbers don't match up. I appreciate your comments, and I think we're on the same page marketing-wise.

</blockquote>

Frank: Thanks! I'll take a look. I'm getting the message, venue relationships are just that. A 'nurture marketing' technique that takes awhile because it must be built.

David: I've been doing this long enough (both visiting forums and professional photography) that I try to avoid asking broad open-ended questions. "What's the best marketing tip?" "How do I get started" etc. I had hoped my question about the mechanics of becoming 'tight' with wedding venues was specific enough as to not be boring/repetitive. My searches prior to posting yielded lots of info on marketing, but I didn't see anything that specifically answered my question. If you know of a post, I'd certainly appreciate a link!

William Michael · March 5, 2011

Good luck with it.

WW

david_schilling___chicago_ · March 5, 2011

I wish I had a nickle for every post that WW has outlined most all of the above before....

Here's a link to a search with a bunch of relevant threads: <a href="../search/?cx=000753226439295166877%3A0gyn0h9z85o&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&q=marketing+wedding+venues&filter=0&as_qdr=&sa=Search+Photo.net&siteurl=photo.net%2Fsearch%2F%3Fcx%3D000753226439295166877%253A0gyn0h9z85o%26cof%3DFORID%253A11%26ie%3DUTF-8%26section%3Dall%26q%3Dwedding%2Bvenues%26filter%3D0#1604">http://www.photo.net/search/?cx=000753226439295166877%3A0gyn0h9z85o&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&q=marketing+wedding+venues&filter=0&as_qdr=&sa=Search+Photo.net&siteurl=photo.net%2Fsearch%2F%3Fcx%3D000753226439295166877%253A0gyn0h9z85o%26cof%3DFORID%253A11%26ie%3DUTF-8%26section%3Dall%26q%3Dwedding%2Bvenues%26filter%3D0#1604</a>

DickArnold · March 5, 2011

If you define a venue as an Inn in a harbor that hosts a lot of weddings I have experience. Starting from scratch I worked with the Inn owner's father on a town committee. I did a couple of weddings at the Inn and I got to know the owner. He evidently liked me because I eventually got a referral exclusive. It helped that I did a lot of weddings with a Justice of the Peace. She did a lot of weddings at the Inn. She helped get me bookings at other inns around the harbor. I got into the Chamber of Commerce (I paid fot it), and I got to know a lot of business owners in the town. I also made friends with the women who worked the desk at the Chamber and made sure they knew where my brochures were. As this was a resort area I got a lot of out of town business from the Chamber. I joined the Rotary and got Real Estate and other businesses from there including a substantial hospital. I have enough basic photographic skill to produce an acceptable product. What got me the business was my ability to network and get along with these people. I learned a lot of things from a Dale Carnegie Course a lot of years ago. These included remembering names and using other people's names often because Dale said the sweetest sound to anyone is the sound of their own name. I have always remembered people who have helped me and frequently thanked them. As someone said, you can pay for venue sponsorship but you can also earn it. What I really learned about my particular wedding business was that face to face marketing and good business practice was far more important than being the best photographer in the area an honor which I never claimed. Today web marketing helps with initial contacts a great deal but getting people in my studio and face to face selling is what got me my bookings. I tried to develop rapport and trust from the gitgo.. I also delivered proofs within two weeks or more quickly. This was all done just prior to my going into digitial and shooting film I think one had to know more about the craft then and because of that the competition was a lot less. I think one has to have a business plan either in one's head or on paper. This plan has to be unique to the potential market, the local demographics, the competition; and, have a pricing plan that based upon those and other variables that has potential to create enough cash flow to keep the business alive or to at least grow it into a profit making entity. I found that my wedding business was a business and I had to treat it as a business. I found I had to know almost as much about how Quick Books portrayed my business as I did about photography.

rippo · March 6, 2011

Thanks David. Your search terms yielded some posts mine didn't. This one I found particularly useful.

http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00SPht

Dick:thanks for describing the path you've taken! Definitely cements the suggestion that the organic approach to hooking up with venues is best. I agree with the face-to-face thing more generally as well. I still try to have 'proof viewings' in person whenever possible, instead of online slideshows. Ostensibly it's so the client can see the quality of the finished print, but mostly it's because people (mostly) like me, and they buy more from me the more contact I have with them.

dave_wilson1 · March 7, 2011

Any place you have a serious desire to work in, you need to go in person and meet some contact people. You need to build a relationship in those places or forget it.

frolickingbits · March 8, 2011

I've been working on building my own vendor relationships, and it is actually considerably less daunting than it seems. I just had a great hour long chat with the sales manager at one of the most expensive venues around, and all that took was a suggestion from a florist I met that I should call him. One big advantage is if you can offer the vendor something of value (i.e. photos)

One trick I've used is to go to a bridal show with my camera and take some great shots of vendor's tables, then print up a few cards with their photo on the front and my info on the back, and go meet them. And once you do start doing weddings, always, always send photos to the vendors involved. The cake maker, florist, the venue, the DJ, get photos that all of them will be proud to use in the marketing.

rippo · March 8, 2011

Good advice Dave and A. Davis, thanks!

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