paul_serafini1 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 <p>I'm nearly certain that a photographer in my area is using images on his website that do not belong to him. The website is a flash site, so I can't right click the suspect images and save so that I can examine the exif data. In other words, I don't think I can prove anything.</p> <p>I don't want to go into detail about why I suspect this.</p> <p>This person is not a competitor of mine, so I cant really figure out why this is bugging me so much.</p> <p>What would you do?</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickdoddsphotography Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 <p>That would bother me too Paul. It is analogous to a shop that I pass every day on my way to work that for a good number of years was emblazoned with a huge yellow sign saying "Closing Down: Everything Must Go". The shop was still there this morning, a decade on. If I could have mustered up the energy to call the relevant council and tell them about it so as to put a stop to it I would have done but I couldn't and didn't; similarly, if there were an easy way of getting a photographer not to cheat (assuming this is what is happening, although you admit you can't prove it), I'd do it. As to methods of achieving this, sorry, I can't help you; likely someone here will be able to thought I should imagine.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryp Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 <p>I presume it's bugging you, Paul, because if you're right it's unethical and denigrates the entire industry. If you're confident they're not his images and you know whose images they are, perhaps you'd want to speak to the real creator, rather than approach this individual whom you suspect.</p> <p><em>personal opinion</em></p> Henry Posner B&H Photo-Video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Ian Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 <p>Paul<br> It should bother you. it would bother me. Kind of like watching somebody steal somebody elses car. Of course, if you don't know what the deal is, you may be misinterpreting the 'facts', one common source of duplication is when seconds are not constrained by their shooting contracts, and so the primary picks a great shot for showing, and the second also picks that shot for their website, as unprofessional as it is, a poorly worded second shooter contract can easily result in that sort of situation.</p> <p>The most obvious course of action though (and I think the right one) is to notify the person whom you think he's stolen the work from. Regardless of why you suspect the theft (or what your level of personal involvement is), it would then be up to them to verify the theft, and pursue a resolution. (even an anonymous tip should be adequate, should you need or want to remain completely uninvolved)</p> <p>If the images are yours, call them, if that doesn't work, then you should follow up with a strongly worded letter (on legal letterhead), and if that doesn't work, then attempt a civil resolution (ie. sue). I would just attempt to resolve it simply first.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_serafini1 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 <p>Thanks for the comments everyone. Again, I"m being fairly tight lipped about why I suspect this is the case, but let me clarify on this point; the suspect images are not mine, nor do I know to whom they belong. Hence my efforts to look at exif data to see if they may have been keyworded with the creator's name.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelchadwickphotography Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 <p>Contact the person you think created them and have them verify whether they are or are not his or hers. Let them take the action necessary to prevent the continued misrepresentation. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irusan Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 <p>Paul,</p> <p>Using TinEye (www.tineye.com) may be of help in locating the original image creator. Assuming you are here in the US, there isn't much you can do other than confront the person you suspect is infringing. Only the copyright holder has the ability to get images removed via the DMCA.</p> <p>Unfortunately, it's possible that, while he is not the original creator, he may still be legally using the images. There's a practice (which is highly unethical, IMNHO) of photographers selling the copyright to their portfolio images when they retire or close down shop. The person who purchases those images/copyright use them to advertise their business. Personally, I don't know how that wouldn't constitute fraud but I am not a lawyer nor would I ever do that so I've never bothered checking into its legality. I guess it's not much different than buying stock images and using them. Maybe as long as they're not claiming that they actually shot the iamges (just let the potential client think they did without clariyfing)... who knows.</p> <p>Anyway, I know that if someone contacted me saying that my images were used elsewhere, I'd be extremely grateful.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 <blockquote> <p>there isn't much you can do other than confront the person you suspect is infringing.... ...Unfortunately, it's possible that, while he is not the original creator, he may still be legally using the images. There's a practice (which is highly unethical, IMNHO) of photographers selling the copyright to their portfolio images... ... The person who purchases those images/copyright use them to advertise their business.</p> </blockquote> <p>If its verified that the images are a misrepresentation, the conduct would not only be an issue for the copyright owner but also for competitors in the same area. Most states have laws about unfair trade practices that permit people, affected by the conduct, to bring a legal action. Often attorney fees are recoverable. It may be more effort than desired when any true owner can potentially curb the activity but someone actually doing this may do it again in direct competition to you and others.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_serafini1 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 <p>Rob, AMAZING advice!! I took several screen grabs of the website, saved them as jpegs and uploaded thm to tineye.com. Long story short, I was correct!!!!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 <p>Paul--it is good you got to the bottom of this incident. Now, just contact the photographer whose work was shown and leave it at that. As Rob said, only the holder of the copyright can actually do anything about having the images removed.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 <blockquote> <p>As Rob said, only the holder of the copyright can actually do anything about having the images removed.</p> </blockquote> <p>As explained previously above, that's not so. Adversely affected competitors (in the same area) will likely have standing to bring unfair trade practice claims and can seek a court order "about having the images removed" among other things. They may even be able to seek payment from an offender for attorneys fees for their efforts under some of those statutes. A local photography business organization may have standing as well.</p> <p>If that is too much fuss, consumer protection departments and attorney general offices will often have power to act to protect the public from fraud and misrepresentation. There may be some ability for them to act, to prevent future incidents, even if the images are removed already.</p> <p>There is also the practical power of negative publicity of which there are many ways to bring about. Something we have some aspects of that here for instance.</p> <p>Notifying the copyright holder first has its virtues but there is a good chance, in these kind of scenarios, that infringers will just move on to new images or even not display them openly but in private 'portfolio' showings. The other measures can be designed to quell such behavior once and for all. If someone is actually hurting other local photographers businesses because of fraud or misrepresentation, it could be reasonable, even necessary in more extreme situations, for them to take action of their own. Laws vary in different states so anyone contemplating that will need to verify what remedies are suitable locally.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 <p>OK, John. I guess I meant that in comparison to Paul himself as an individual and discoverer of the incident, the holder of the copyright is the one to take an already defined path of action to achieve the desired result. IMHO, your scenario with consumer protection departments and attorney general offices would cause me to predict that the group collaboration (local photography business owners) necessary would be a far weaker effort unlikely to achieve the desired result, even if technically possible. But what do I know? :^)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 <p>That's one of the "virtues". Its probably effective for the currently displayed images if not future ones.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irusan Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 <p>John's right, of course. To clarify, I did say that only the copyright holder can have images removed <em>under the DMCA</em>. :-)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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