Looking to buy first Leica M

[cody_moore1]

<p>Hi Everyone, I am trying to buy my first Leica M this week and I have decided on the M3. My question is, is it better to get one that has already been gone through, or to buy one that needs a CLA? </p>

[Bill Blackwell Images]

<p>It depends on who did the 'gone through' ...<br>

<br>

I have purchased M cameras with a recent 'CLA' that needed a CLA upon arrival - in one case the camera needed a new shutter curtain because the person who worked on it over-lubed the shutter. Bottom-line, whenever I buy an M camera I always plan on a CLA regardless. <br>

<br>

My advice is to find a clean example (make sure the VF is nice and bright - and clean) and simply plan on a CLA. Our own Gus Lazzari is fair, reasonably fast, and reliable.<br>

 

 

</p>

[stuart_richardson]

<p>You might also be interested in hearing another side -- lots of Leicas work just fine without a CLA. http://www.dantestella.com/technical/cla.html<br>

The M3 is very old though, so if it has never been cared for, it might be needed. But my advice would be to just look for the best copy you can, shoot a test roll, and see! If the roll comes out well (try slide film if you are very demanding) and everything works fine and feels smooth, then be happy and photograph with it! </p>

[t._kim]

<p>Welcome to the slippery slope !<br /><br />First, there are a number of conditions that, frankly, can't be fixed with a simple CLA. The most notable is balsam separation in the RF. You also need to be sure the shutter curtain is serviceable as replacement is expensive. Minor dents and dings are usually fine as long as it hasn't affected the RF. Finally, I wouldn't spend more than $500-$700 total for a good user body (including CLA if needed), depending on condition. Expect to pay a little less for a double stroke.<br /><br />You do know about the clean, yet limited frame lines on the M3? If not, I'd suggest an M2 instead. Same caveats apply.<br /><br />Enjoy the ride.</p>

[vahe_sahakian]

<p>I am a bit skeptical about cameras with CLA that are offered for sale. Not all CLA’s are indication of quality work by a competent camera expert and with what I know about doing it right I do not see how anyone would send a M camera to DAG or Sherry for a full CLA and then turn around and sell it, numbers just do not add up.<br>

I have two M3’s, both are SS and are over 50 years old, they work perfect with no CLA so far.<br>

If it were me I would look for the cosmetically cleanest M body that I can afford and then send it to one of these folks for a quality CLA.</p>

[steve_levine]

<p>Just buy carefully. Make sure the RF is accurate, and that the speeds and shutter are good.<br>

Many early M cameras that haven't ever been serviced, are still fully functional. I have seen dozens of beat to hell bodies, that still worked perfectly. And all have their original factory "<em>L</em>" seals.</p>

<p>At a roll a day , the average beat up M, might need servcing in several years!</p>

[nee_sung]

<p>Leica has stated publicly (in Leica Fotografie magazine) that "round about 1961 we had the production of the M3 under control". Therefore I would suggest that you buy M3 produced in 1961 and later.<br>

Test the slow shutter speeds. Fire successively 1sec, 1/2..1/8. The 1/8 is interesting because it is exactly the speed of my pressing and releasing the shutter. So I use the 1/8 for this purpose, but other human beings may differ. Anyway the slow shutters are the vulnerable ones. Listen to the sound of the springs and you should be able to tell if it's good or not.<br>

Then test the 1/1000. Open the camera back, flip up the back cover, put your eye to the film frame, look at a bright source, fire the shutter and see if your eyes catch any dark streaks. If it does, the shutter is faulty.<br>

I tend to agree with the no CLA crowd. Buy one, use it, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". It was perfect (or as close to perfect as humanly possible) when it left the factory. Try to keep it that way.</p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>I use an M3 but will echo what T. Kim said: an M2 is more flexible as it has 35mm frame lines.</p>

[cody_moore1]

<p>Thank you all so much for the advice and tips. It is greatly appreciated. As far as the M2, I haven't really considered it since I havent seen one in person before. Would it be recommended to stay away from cameras found on ebay and wait till I find one at a local shop? </p>

[robert_hooper1]

<p>Personally, I would look for the latest production Leica M3 in the best cosmetic condition you can afford, and then have it reconditioned by <a href="http://tlccamerarepair.homestead.com/">Gus</a>, <a href="http://www.sherrykrauter.com/">Sherry</a>, or <a href="http://www.dagcamera.com/">Don</a>. Avoid cameras with viewfinders infected with fungus. They might otherwise look fine, but this could be a very expensive repair.</p>

<p>You take a big chance buying a "user" Leica on eBay, or elsewhere. It may be more than just cosmetically flawed and there could be expensive problems with the rangefinder or shutter curtains.</p>

<p>You might want to check out <a href="http://www.sherrykrauter.com/productsPage.php?category=mCameras">Sherry Krauter's used cameras</a>. You can be assured that she will sell you a decent camera.</p>

<p> </p>

[andresainderichin]

<p>Hi, Welcome to the club. Have a serious conversation with your significant other first, because you're in for one of the foulest addictions there are: the dreaded Leica M disease, for which no cure exists. Trust me: whatever the model, it won't be the last. That being said, I too would go for an M2 (or an M4) to begin: you get 35mm framelines so once (very soon) you go hunting for a wide-angle lens, you're not limited to the ones with the goggles you'd need for an M3. I also agree on the CLA angle: I don't see that as a sales argument, unless you get to see who did the CLA and when, and get a copy of the invoice. Odds are that any M will just work (check out Stephen Gandy's list in Cameraquest first), so try it with a couple of rolls first, and then decide if you think it needs a CLA. Don't mind scratches or nicks or scuffs, or even a small ding: Ms are built like tanks, and can take a beating.<br>

Cheers<br>

André</p>

[paul_neuthaler]

<p>Get lots of film -- M's will be around forever; film -- not so sure!</p>

[Jeffrey L.T. von Glück]

<p>I started out in the 1970s by inheriting my grandfather's kit of M3 and 35/50/90 Summicrons. The M3 gave up the ghost in a few years--bad shutter problems that did not make sense to repair. Instead, I traded it for a pristine M2. I liked the M2's finder much better. I then bought a new M6 (the original non-TTL model), an M5 followed (that Sherry CLA'd for me), and finally an M7 that was a demo model in mint condition. I have since traded away the M6. My favourite M is the black sheep of the family, the M5, but I find myself using the M7 much more as I'm getting lazy with exposure the older I get.</p>

<p>Don't discount the M5, but it might not be a good intro to the classic feel of an M. I would recommend you go the M2 route to start out. You will eventually find yourself acquiring and trading lenses and bodies, it's inevitable.</p>

<p>My wife is also a shutterbug so I did not have to do much explaining as I acquired bodies and lenses. In addition, I have a whole bunch of R bodies and lenses which she used to use, but she has jumped ship and gone totally digital. If you have a nonphotographer spouse or significant other, be prepared with creative explanations for each new acquisition. Good luck!</p>

[charlie_didrickson1]

<p>Hi Cody</p>

<p>I sent you an email regarding my M6 if interested.</p>

<p>Thanks and good luck whatever you buy!</p>

<p>Charlie</p>

[paul_keller]

<p> I just sent a recently purchased M2 to Gus Lazzari for a CLA. Even though the shutter speeds were not that far off, it just didn't feel as smooth and precise as a different M2 Gus went through about a year earlier. The "new" cameras film advance action was a bit stiffer near the end of the advance levers travel. The sound of the slow speed escapement didn't drift off as smoothly after low speed shutter actuations. The viewfinder, while bright, had a couple small pieces of debris present. I'm sure Gus will find other things as well.<br>

Knowing a Leica M has a foundation of expert restoral at the begining of ownership gives me confidence it will for years to come provide the reliability and feel Leicas are famous for. I consider it just part of the purchase price.</p>

[cody_moore1]

<p>What are the thoughts on the M5? I found one at the same price I was planning on purchasing an M3 for. I do like the built in meter, but really know nothing about the camera.</p>

[andresainderichin]

<p>Hello Cody,<br>

M5 is excellent !!! Some people don't care for the looks, they're a bit chunkier than the "regular" Ms, but I think they're great cameras! And just the same tank-like construction as any other Leica. The meter just works great, and the layout in the viewfinder is really neat (arguably better than in the M6 which came 13 years later). Just bear in mind that the original batteries aren't made anymore, so you'll have to go for hearing aid batteries, or the smaller 1.35V silver oxyde batteries with an adapter to make them fit in the battery cavity of the M5. </p>

[cody_moore1]

<p>Out of curiosity, would the 35mm Summicron with goggles work on an m5?</p>

[dr._karl_hoppe]

<p>Absolutely. The 35/2 Summicron with "goggles" (optical viewing unit) works on any M. I believe it brings up the 50mm frame lines but because the goggles minimise it, it becomes the 35mm framelines.</p>

<p>I have an old 1960s-era 35/2 Summicron with goggles and routinely use it on all my Ms. If you wear eyeglasses (as I do), it's actually easier to see the framelines</p>