Questions from a Groom

[andrew_west5]

<p>My fiancèe and I are currently in the process of planning our wedding. Yes, unlike the stereotypical groom, I'd like to be involved. We've decided on budgeting for several "priority expenses" while scaling back a little on things we consider less important in order to stretch our budget farther.<br /><br />One of these priorities are the photographer. I wish my reasoning was a little more romantic or a little less egocentric, but I'm mainly concerned with the choice of photographer simply because I don't think I can suffer a fool in that department. I couldn't bring myself to pay money for mediocre work. I need to be impressed, not just as a paying client, but as a photographer.<br /><br />Having said all that, I have a few questions for the professionals here. I apologize if these have been asking a thousand times over, but I'd like to be as well-informed a client as possible.<br /> <br /> What would you say is the most common package? I've seen wedding albums, usually kept tucked away in a box somewhere, but I've never really seen 8 x 10s from a wedding on over a mantle. It seems to me like a strange thing to have on a wall. At least, most of the work I've seen in wedding portfolios. Maybe smaller prints for collages and tabletop display would work or I could just need to find the right photographer.<br /> <br /> What exactly does the term "photojournalism" mean in the context of wedding photography. I know it's become something of a buzzword, but I don't really understand what a self-described wedding photojournalist does different than another wedding photographer. Is it just another word for candid? Does a wedding photojournalist honor the same code of ethics as a journalist? It seems strange, misleading even, to throw the word around if the there's no intention of backing it up.<br /> <br /> This probably seems like a ridiculous question, but is it a bad idea to mention being a photographer? It's probably unrealistic to expect being more involved in the process than the average client, talking shop, or anything like that. If it's not relevant, I don't see a reason to mention it. Is it? <br /><br /> I'll probably come back with more questions, but I want to thank everyone for the help in advance. It's beyond useful being able to ask working professionals in the field directly.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>1. There probably is no 'most common package'. Maybe coverage plus a premium, magazine style album...with each one defined by hours and pages. Photographers offer all kinds of things now, from just coverage to a premium album and a slideshow and fusion/video and parent albums and whatever else anyone can think of. Some people are not even getting an album, but just showing images on a monitor.</p>

<p>2. Wedding photojournalism is not the same as photojournalism or journalism, and practitioners of wedding photojournalism do not adhere to journalism guidelines. The range of wedding journalism goes from total 'hands of'/no direction to very specific posing to make things look like they weren't posed. So a self-described wedding photojournalist may indeed not do anything different from a 'regular' wedding photographer--depends on the photographer/journalist. The term is not just another word for candid, if one were to really practice it as the most pure pratitioners do, and there are some. However, the majority are midway between pure and not-at-all. You may want to check out the article by Neil Ambrose, who posts here often. Search "Master Lesson" and Wedding Reportage, along with his name.</p>

<p>3. Mentioning that one is a photographer while being a groom depends on the photographer you are talking to. If it were me, I would have no concern about it. In fact, I have done photography for photographers. I have even given some of them RAW files for them to work on themselves. For others, it may give them pause. You will have to feel things out for yourself.</p>

[fotografz]

<p><strong>Packages: </strong>Generally, most wedding shooters can provide a package quote based on the specifics of your wedding. How many hours, which can be determined by your itinerary for the day ... and what deliverables that you will expect ... such as albums, slideshows, etc. Many have packages that can fit the needs, others may quote a la carte.</p>

<p><strong>Albums/Prints:</strong> Whether an album collects dust in a closet depends on the images and the album itself doesn't it? One thing to think about is what will be around for your 30th or even 50th wedding anniversary ... what will your Grandkids see? I still have my parent's wedding photos in silver frames on a bookshelf. Most every client I have has a 16 X 20 framed print from their wedding in their home ... but I deliberately shoot something more appropriate for that display application ... and often print it in B&W.</p>

<p><strong>Journalism:</strong> Wedding photojournalism isn't news journalism ... it is more akin to photo essay work like Life Magazine used to do. A story line of your wedding events and highlights using a more candid, less directed style of photography. The range of talent in doing this is the same as with any style of photography ... photojournalism can range from lack-luster snapshots, to a series of decisive moments ... composition, timing, awareness, an eye for humanity, and all that stuff comes into play. </p>

<p>Since many families expect some portrait work ( aka, formals and family group shots), most (not all) wedding photojournalist do at least some of these.</p>

<p><strong>To tell or not:</strong> I'd definitely tell anyone you are considering that you're a photographer. It'll come out eventually. Personally, I think it makes the initial discussion easier. I shoot a lot for art directors, designers and other photographers ... and it DOES keep one on their toes ... LOL! Just don't expect them to alter what they do to meet your photographic style or anything like that. </p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p>Feel free to ask/discuss anything with your potential photographer..... Telling the photographer that you have some experience in photography should give you some common ground and a good photographer will welcome any knowledge/experience that you might already have.</p>

<p>Suggest that you completely forget any of the labels over style, instead, be sure to look at several full wedding coverage samples and let their images tell you what they do. It's not uncommon for a photographer to claim a style that they might not actually deliver, let their work speak for itself. Also look for experience, steer clear of anyone who attempts to impress you with their equipment prior to showing you actual prints/images.</p>

<p>To get an idea of prints to place above the mantle, look at what images the photographer has enlarged to 11x14s, 16x20s, and larger and placed on his/her walls. Lastly, find out what contingency plans the photographer has in place of any last minute emergency or illness that would prevent him/her to cover the wedding. Good luck.</p>

[Jerry_]

<p>...or if you are in a doubtful area of thought, you, with a tripod, could always go the "do-it-yourself route" and be a happy groom and a happy photographer on the same day. Just find a relative that is capable of tripping the shutter gently after you get the pose set the way you want it. [it can be done...]</p>

<p> </p>

[dave_wilson1]

<p>Besides everything else mentioned, make sure they have good "people skills". Someone who has good photo skills and works efficiently and is lighthearted will make the day more pleasant than someone who has poor people skills, is too bossy, or takes themselves too seriously. As far as being a photographer goes, hire who you're comfortable with and <em><strong>let them do their job</strong></em>. Ask about sufficient backup equipment and how they handle mishaps. Here's a quick story: I remember well doing a job for an exceptional, fanatical portrait photog for his parents anniversary... As soon as his parents were introduced and they were about to do the toast, my new (at that time) Hasselblad jammed. As awkward as it was, I had no choice but to have them pause briefly, and because I used quick disconnect mounts on my bracket, I was up and running again in about 30 seconds. Now I felt terrible that this happened and was waiting for the reaction/wrath of my colleague. Instead he calmly walked over and shared how his 1st Hasselblad jammed while a bride was walking the aisle and in panic he tried to reset the camera with a knife or something and it slipped, chipping the back element of his lens. So, things happen, make sure your photog has a plan and is confident with his/her backup plan. Enjoy your wedding!</p>

[parv]

Asking someone else to trip the shutter can be fun ...

 

http://www.photoattorney.com/?p=1492

 

http://www.photoattorney.com/?p=28

[marcsaint]

<p>I agree with the writer who suggested getting a photographer with good people skills. You and your bride are going to be spending potentially 8 hours of (hopefully) one of the best days of your life with this person. If they are fantastic photographers who act like bossy jerks, you may get some beautiful pictures of an unhappy day.<br>

Packages are essentially informed guesses about what clients might want as finished product from the photographer. I'd suggest you think about what YOU want to have in your hands after the wedding and ask photographers what it would cost.<br>

I say don't tell the photographer that you are one also, but drop a few choice phrases ("gamut", or "D-TTL", or "circles of confusion") just to keep them on their toes :-)</p>

[john_deerfield]

<blockquote>

<p>but is it a bad idea to mention being a photographer?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>What type of photographer? The issue with wedding photography is that to do it well it is actually quite difficult. It isn't like we have a good couple hours to set up for a good portrait shoot. We have minutes. So managing expectations on both sides is a good idea. One great way to do this is simply by having an engagement shoot. This allows everyone a chance to work with one another <em>prior</em> to the wedding day. Another recommendation that can <em>really</em> relieve some stress is to have a Bridal Shoot <em>after </em>the wedding. Perhaps even the day after. This allows not only the photographer to work in a more relaxed environment, but the two of you as well. We haven't done it all that often but every time we do, the B&G <em>love</em> it. We get to spend up to 90-minutes with just the Bride & Groom... that is next to impossible the day of a wedding. </p>

<p>As far as packages and photojournalism and such go.... like others have mentioned: determine what <em>you</em> want in a package and then set about making that happen. If a photographer won't work with you on a package, then you have an easy answer on whether that photographer is a right fit for you! I see photojournalism tossed around a lot these days; I actually had one bride insist that she wanted a majority of her coverage to be photojournalistic. At her direction, I took more formal images that day than almost any other wedding! So it means different things to different people. IMHO, true photojournalism simply means little to no direction while documenting the day. The mindset is different. I am looking to tell the story of your day. Not that I don't want to do that as a "normal" photographer, but think about taking formals at the church. If I am the "normal" photographer I am getting a group set up and posed and behind the camera, whereas the "photojournalist" is looking for those other moments: people laughing, a little one goofing off, and more... the little things that the "normal" photographer may <em>want</em> to capture but is otherwise engaged. And, like it or not, a lot of issues are resolved via how much you want to spend. One photographer costs "X" dollars. Adding an assistant adds more. But an assistant can set up lights, hold reflectors/diffusers and so on. Adding a second photographer adds even more money but also adds a 2nd set of eyes, possibly photojournalistic coverage.</p>

<p>I would set about determining how much you do want to invest and what you <em>want</em> from your package/coverage. Then start <em>interviewing </em>potential photographers.</p>

[cliff_nj]

<p>Andrew,<br>

I'd recommend the Wedding Photojournalist Association (www.WPJA.com) as a great resource...I am a NJ member...they judge members' work quarterly and only offer membership based upon the quality and style of one's work.<br>

I define Wedding Photojournalism as 'shooting more verbs than nouns while telling the story of the day'.<br>

Be sure to meet with the potential photographer in person and check references.</p>

[jim_ducey]

<p>If this is a traditional wedding with the bride`s father paying the bills for "her day"<br>

The standard instructions for the groom to stay out of trouble that you may regret from now on are.<br>

1 Show up sober<br>

2 Dress up<br>

3 Shut up<br>

It is stll not bad advice<br>

Jim</p>

[michaelchadwickphotography]

<p>With respect to revealing your photographer background, it should not make any difference if the photographer you're speaking with has confidence in his or her abilities. Would I shoot a wedding differently if I found out the bride or groom was a photographer? Of course not. I always give my best, no matter what. I can't imagine people are holding back on the off chance that they might shoot for another shooter and only then give their all. : )</p>

<p>That being said, it might be interesting in the process of choosing your photographer to mention it and see if it causes them to pause. If so, you might not be dealing with a very confident shooter!</p>

[tom_mann1]

<p><em>"... and see if it causes them to pause. If so, you might not be dealing with a very confident shooter! ..."</em></p>

<p>It's equally likely the pro might be worrying about the possibility of being micromanaged by someone who is not a pro wedding shooter.</p>

<p>Dealing with the usual phalanx of "Uncle Bob's" and their brand new DSLRs from Best Buy can be distracting enough, but imagine if the groom turned out to be even worse. ;-)</p>

<p>Tom M</p>

[daverhaas]

<p>1) Packages, pricing and inclusions vary greatly from region to region - I offer 3 levels - basic, better and best (in terms of hours and coverage) - albums are not included - since those vary so widely by taste, quality and size (number of images)</p>

<p>2) Journalistic - tends to be less formal (with very few, if any formal shots) - and tends to be a soup to nuts approach - from the time the bride / groom get up - to the time they leave the reception. (at least in my neck of the woods)</p>

<p>3) Yes - be open and honest - tell the potential photographers that you too are a photographer. Reasoning: 1) if you start asking specific question they will understand the context. 2) they don't like to be surprised the day of 3) they can discuss what they are planning with you - in terms that you both understand. </p>

<p>I've shot for a couple of photographers and a couple of aspiring ones - it makes it much easier for all if that is communicated up front as opposed to the day of the wedding. Also - during the selection process - it is a good thing to know (I've been turned down by a couple of photographers - because our styles didn't "mesh") - and that is a good thing to know up front too... Just nice to know when the client says we found another photographer the why you weren't selected reasons...</p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[andrew_west5]

<p>I want to thank everyone for the responses so far. They've definitely given me some food for thought.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p><br />...or if you are in a doubtful area of thought, you, with a tripod, could always go the "do-it-yourself route" and be a happy groom and a happy photographer on the same day. Just find a relative that is capable of tripping the shutter gently after you get the pose set the way you want it. [it can be done...]</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br />I tend to prefer the DIY route most of the time, but I don't think the bride would find my stubbornness as endearing if I screwed this up. </p>

<blockquote>

<p><br />What type of photographer? The issue with wedding photography is that to do it well it is actually quite difficult. It isn't like we have a good couple hours to set up for a good portrait shoot. We have minutes. So managing expectations on both sides is a good idea. One great way to do this is simply by having an engagement shoot.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br />I'm just a lowly student right now. It's a long engagement though (December 2012), so I hope to be shooting freelance by then.<br>

<br />I'd just like to whatever I can to create a comfortable shooting environment for the photographer. Both to enable them to do their best work, and to bring me some good karma.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>If this is a traditional wedding with the bride`s father paying the bills for "her day"<br />The standard instructions for the groom to stay out of trouble that you may regret from now on are.<br />1 Show up sober<br />2 Dress up<br />3 Shut up<br />It is stll not bad advice</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Both the bride's parents and my own are going to be helping out, but her and I are likely going to be paying for much of it. I have no intention of paying for something while having no say in it, nor does the bride-to-be want that. Maybe I'm just one of a rare breed of guy who actually wants to be involved in his own wedding. <br />No offense, but that sounds like good advise for a groom who's going to spend his wedding day waiting for it to be over. I mean, except for the first part. The drinking doesn't start until the reception, and then everyone gets drunk together.<br>

<br />I do have a couple more questions to throw out there. I know, I just don't know when to quit, right?<br />How long does a photographer usually stay at a reception? I know this varies, but I don't want cut them loose and miss out on something nor do I want to keep them there and end up with nothing to show for it. The reception is most likely going to be in the same place as the ceremony, so it's really just a matter of time spent.<br>

<br />Since we're doing a winter wedding, both the ceremony and reception are going to be indoors. We're not having it in a church, so flash photography won't be an issue, but I'm still curious if there's any significant drawbacks to this arrangement that I'm not thinking of. <br>

Finally, just for the hell of it, who would you consider an accomplished wedding photographer? Location doesn't matter, this is just for curiosity's sake.</p>

<p>Thank again everyone.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>1. I normally stay until just after the bouquet and garter toss, unless the couple wants me for any action to happen later, such as a formal goodbye/leaving sequence (sparklers or bubbles during a dash to the car, etc.). It depends somewhat on the actual sequence of action, but the bouquet and garter tosses are usually the last photographable 'events' of the day. Just go by what you want covered and figure the time.</p>

<p>2. The drawback to a winter wedding would be the availability of daylight for the 'romantic' shots of both of you. If you have a traditional, 'don't see each other before the ceremony' wedding, the only time the photographer will have to photograph you both is after the ceremony sometime, and usually, that sometime is even later than the family group pictures at the altar. So if you want any natural light shots, you have to be sure it can happen before it gets too dark.</p>

<p>Otherwise, your romantics will be taken with flash. That in itself is not all bad if your photographer is proficient with flash beyond the 'blast them with direct on camera flash' variety. As for indoor scenes with dim light, just be sure you verify that the photographer can handle these situations by asking for and looking at example wedding images of indoor/dim light weddings--complete ones, not just the odd example from a mix of weddings. Also be sure that the photographer that took those images is the photographer who will shoot your wedding, and not a last minute substitute or something.</p>

[victoria_harding_wakeen]

<p>Andrew: In response to your last question ... <em>Finally, just for the hell of it, who would you consider an accomplished wedding photographer? Location doesn't matter, this is just for curiosity's sake ... </em>I would argue that MANY of the posters on this forum are "accomplished" wedding photographers, but as one such example of one of <em>my </em>personal favorites, you could check out David Ziser. There are SO many great wedding shooters and being "accomplished" could be considered a subjective term. If you're trying to get an idea of your personal photographic taste, visit several sites of photogs ... PPA.com offers "Find a Photographer".</p>