want to enter the wedding market in the right way

[steve_johnston9]

<p>Hello, I want to enter the wedding market in the right way and could do with some advice.<br>

I have had a long time interest in photography and had never really thought about it as a career. The main thing that put me off is that so many people seem to be pursuing it as a career. About six months ago though I was offered the chance to does two second shooting gig? As an excuse to spend a day just shooting I jumped at the chance and second shot three weddings. Since then I have shot a couple of events and some portrait shootings.<br>

I want to shoot more weddings one as a second shooter, but the guy I was shooting for is retiring, so I started emailing and calling photographers in my area. I have spoken/emailed over 70 wedding photographers with no joy. They have said either they don’t use second shooters or they use family/friends.<br>

I thought the issues might be my photos. But I have had interest from two studios....but they want me as a primary shooter, not a second shooter and I am not sure after three weddings I have enough experience for this, hence the reason I want more second shooter roles.<br>

Would appreciate advice on where to go from here.</p>

[mariosforsos]

<p>Your instincts are right - chances are you do need more experience as a second shooter, but at the same time I can see the problem with actually obtaining that experience when nobody is actually using second shooters... Have you tried offering your services at a reduced rate? That might attract some photographers. On the other hand, there is a chance (and I'm saying this without having seen your images - you could be anything from a progeny to a complete novice...;-))) that they don't consider you good enough.</p>

<p>On the other hand, you have the two studios asking you to be their primary shooter. This gives me reason to pause as to the quality of their services since they're willing to take someone with so little experience immediately. BUT, you could explain the situation to them, offer that you second-shoot with one of their seasoned photographers for a bit and see how they react. Alternatively, you could just accept the gig and see where it takes you. Sometimes jumping in with both feet works....</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p>Instead of making contact with 70 photographers, suggest that you attempt to establish a relationship with a handful of them. Emailing is the least effective way to go and could also work against you because it can be easily perceived as a negative. Start with the guy that is retiring, surely he has some personal contacts with peers that he could introduce and recommend you to. Consider looking for a mentor in place of the "on the job training".</p>

<p>I wouldn't dismiss the primary shooter opportunities altogether. I suspect they have some degree of supervision that you can take advantage of. They would also likely start you off with the smaller, easier weddings while they check out what you can do. Consider joining PPA and/or WPPI and take advantage of local networking opportunities.</p>

<p>Check out the wedding training DVDs at: <a href="http://www.photovisionvideo.com/store/CTGY/DVD/">http://www.photovisionvideo.com/store/CTGY/DVD/</a></p>

<p>Also, suggest that you put some personal bio info, your home area, along with a self portrait on your P-net member page.</p>

[sherijohnson]

<p>Really it all boils down to how good you are at what you do, if you are really good, then you might be ready to go solo. It's hard to determine that without seeing the results you have been getting.</p>

[steve_johnston9]

<p><strong>Really it all boils down to how good you are at what you do, if you are really good, then you might be ready to go solo. It's hard to determine that without seeing the results you have been getting.</strong><br>

The problem is I know my weaknesses and my strengths. Ceremony shots I am very strong at even is very dark conditions, as well as reception and pre ceremony shots. My biggest weakness is group shots and shots outside the church requiring flash fill. I have been doing a lot of practice on flash fill recently, but there is no substitute for real life practice, hence the desire for more second shooting opportunities. <strong><br /></strong></p>

[markonestudios]

Not that I'm recommending this, but I started as a primary shooter. I never knew about second shooting, nor did I know anyone who was willing to take me on. I was just back in the country after some time away and I jumped in at the deep end. I did as much practice as I could (using friends as 'models", etc) burning through lots of film, following advice from PN, doing some of my own experimentation (with generally good results) and then just started doing weddings. First for friends then gradually developed my style and built up a name.

<p>So, much as you are trying to err on the side of caution, it's not always bad to jump in with both feet. Just be sure you know what to expect and also be quick enough on your feet to handle the unexpected :)

[mark_harrington1]

<p>Since you want to enter the market properly, I suggest you get a formal education in photography. While it is easy to jump right in, you need to be a master of your equipment, have a creative vision and work well under stress. For example, I shot a small back yard wedding this past Sat., the wedding was supposed to be very elegant, but there was no MC, DJ or any type of coordinator. The yard was large from a guest standpoint, but very cramped for photographic purposes. Of course the mid-afternoon sun was very bright and when the sun went down, the golf course behind the venue sucked up all the light - of course there was no moon. I was able to shoot a number of usable images, but with all of the obstacles at play it would have been a very stressful situation for someone who lacks the experience or confidence to work through the issues. In my experience, most people just starting out lack the experience and/or confidence to shoot a wedding such as this. Taking a few great images can be done with a lot of luck and just a little skill, shooting an entire wedding with quality images that tell the story and reflect the vision of the clients takes a lot of skill and just a little luck.</p>

[ed_te_pas]

<p>if you want to enter the wedding market professionally, you have to understand every light circumstances to you'll come across and have the right equipment to solve problems. Not knowing how to use fill flash, looks like a gap in your knowledge of your equipment. So some education will give you the right tools to handle such a basic situations. Your clients pay you because you know. This weekend I was on a bridal fair shooting the catwalk. Beside me was another photographer constantly watching his LCD after every 3 shots he was looking at his LCD. Clearly he doesn't know his equipment. So education is THE key to be a better professional photographer. Then a lot of trial and error (on your own time, not your client's) will give you finally the technique to cope with all situations.</p><div></div>

[dave_wilson1]

<p>One thing I did early on is keep a notebook. Poses, exposure, lighting, all kinds of stuff, so I could go back and reference it as things went on. I would save articles, magazine layouts, all kinds of stuff. If you can't second shoot, take some of the primary jobs, but just stay within your game so you're not over your head making poor work that will reflect on you negatively. I also agree very much, you have to go make personal contacts and do legwork. Enjoy!</p>

[savagesax]

So many things can go wrong. See if you can put an ad in craigslist saying that you have little to no experience and you will shoot the wedding for free. See how that goes, show PN some of your images and see what some of the long time pros think and the advice they give you.

 

Not to scare you, but a local photographer here in Los Angeles just lost a lawsuit. Most contracts say the photographer is only liable for the amount of the contract. His client hired an attorney and sued him for $40,000. I asked him why he didn't go to small claims court. He said their attorney sued in civil court. He didn't have insurance. I have no idea what he's gonna do. The photographer did a decent job, but missed some very important bridal portraits. This suit was very recent, I think in July. This photographer has 18 years of experience. He offered to reshoot the bridal shots but the bride refused saying her day was totally wrecked. Needless to say this bride was more into the money than simply taking a few shots over. The judge awarded her a full refund of the entire wedding, which was $40,000.

 

Anyway, be careful before you jump into this business. Lots of good things can happen and scary ones too. Plan for the best, but remember you may have a bad day, such as camera gear dying, stolen, and every bad thing you can think of could happen. Start very slowly and work your way up.

[steve_johnston9]

<p><strong>Not to scare you, but a local photographer here in Los Angeles just lost a lawsuit. Most contracts say the photographer is only liable for the amount of the contract. His client hired an attorney and sued him for $40,000. I asked him why he didn't go to small claims court. He said their attorney sued in civil court. He didn't have insurance. I have no idea what he's gonna do. The photographer did a decent job, but missed some very important bridal portraits. This suit was very recent, I think in July. This photographer has 18 years of experience. He offered to reshoot the bridal shots but the bride refused saying her day was totally wrecked. Needless to say this bride was more into the money than simply taking a few shots over. The judge awarded her a full refund of the entire wedding, which was $40,000.</strong></p>

<p>Wow I live in the UK and that does still scares me. I’ve heard of one occasion of a wedding photographer being sued in the UK but his photographers were of the worse I’ve ever seen. How many lawsuits in the US are there around wedding photography disputes ?</p>

[ed_te_pas]

<blockquote>

<p>The judge awarded her a full refund of the entire wedding, which was $40,000.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This can only happen is the US, where the whole "legal" system has made this possible. Ridiculously out of proportion.</p>

[eric merrill]

<p>Heed Dave's advice:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Instead of making contact with 70 photographers, suggest that you attempt to establish a relationship with a handful of them. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>If I'm committing to a bride to have a second shooter, it's my name on the line if you decide to bail out because of a hangnail. I'm not about to take that risk with some unknown email spammer.</p>

<p>Eric</p>

[eric merrill]

<p>Bob:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>The judge awarded her a full refund of the entire wedding, which was $40,000.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Do you have any sources for this? I'd like to learn more. Thanks!</p>

<p>Eric</p>

[savagesax]

I'm very reluctant to say the name of the photographer on an open forum like this. All I can say is he's a friend that lives in the San Fernando Valley. The lawsuit took place at the Van Nuys Court House. I was not there.

 

Anyway Eric, the key to the lawsuit was a full refund on the entire day of events, which included the dinner, the cake, the DJ, everything, the total budget, flowers, tux rentals.

 

I haven't talked to him lately, since late August, he doesn't answer his cell phones. He has 3 phones. I'm hoping he will appeal the case because it's totally unfair. He was born in Mexico, so perhaps he moved back there. Perhaps he's simply trying to figure out what to do. He surely doesn't deserve this, because he's a very good photographer.

 

Sometimes bad things happen at weddings. I feel like most people reading this that he should have to refund the bride for the cost of the photographer. He charges around $1800 for a wedding.

 

If I hear anything I will surely update the forum.

[savagesax]

By the way, I've made mistakes at weddings, but I've never been sued. About 18 years ago the bride ran late at her wedding - 2 hours late and I had another wedding booked after hers. I left her wedding during the reception to get to the next wedding. They said they were gonna sue me, but we settled by me giving them the negatives. That was the only time I was treading water wondering if this was going to court.

[lou korell]

<p>That's really scary Bob. It makes you stop and wonder, do I have enough insurance to cover something like that? Yikes! </p>

[caleb_santos]

<p>Hey Steve,<br /> If TWO studios are interested in you then go for it. You have obviously proved yourself. Some people think you need a PhD in optics and be a student of da vinci before you are worthy enough to photograph someone's wedding. That is rubbish. The fact that you are thinking it through so thoroughly proves to me that you are ready to take big strides forward. I like this part,</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The main thing that put me off is that so many people seem to be pursuing it as a career.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Okay? It's like when you buy a new car, and suddenly you begin to notice the same car a lot more on the street. Key word here -- "SEEM". Your perceptions are your reality. So, change your perceptions. You are the best photographer in the UK. Go knock em out.<br>

Long story short, it doesn't take THAT much experience to do this job. But I would agree doing a wedding completely solo would suck. I like to have a partner just for moral support. :)</p>