New PC Configuration-Do I really need all of this?

[terri_m]

<p>I posted in another thread but have not received a reply so I'll try a new post.<br>

I am an amateur photographer just starting out and my pc is finished and I'm on a borrowed system. After researching I came up with what I believed to be the best components for my price range. Actually I am over budget with the monitor. It leads me to think that I'm over doing it but I want a system that will allow me to grow into more technical photo editing. I'm not interested in video editing but might use the system for gaming.<br>

I've configured at least 5 different companies from mainstream to custom builders. I'm reluctant to buy from the boutique pc builders because I'm worried about customer support. Most custom builders I've looked at have good ratings at <a href="http://www.resellers.com">www.resellers.com</a>.<br>

I will be running Adobe Elements and Lightroom III but I'm still deciding on which editing software to use.<br>

The configured system is very expensive. Most quotes run from $2000 - $2800 without the monitor. I hope to purchase the HP LP2475W monitor which costs about $600.<br>

Can someone please review and adivise whether the following is typical or overkill for my needs.<br>

OS- Windows 7 Premium 64bit<br>

CPU - i7-950<br>

GPU - ATI Radeon HD5770<br>

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X58a-UD5 or Intel DX58SO with X58 Chipset or EVGAX58/X58 Chipset<br>

CPU Cooler: Most Custom builds come with this feature.<br>

Power: 650 - 750W Power Supply (varies among suppliers)<br>

RAM: 12GB RAM DDR3 1333 Mhz<br>

Primary Hard Drive: 80GB Intel SDD<br>

Secondary Hard Drive: 1.0TB Western Digital Caviar Black<br>

Blu-ray CD/DVD R/W burner player<br>

Media Card Reader<br>

Microsoft 2010 Home and Student<br>

I can cut the SSD to save some money and perhaps reduce the RAM to 8GB with expansion capabilities. <br>

I have read about RAID but the concept escapes me so I don't specify it. I have a daily external back-up system. <br>

What I'd really like to spend is $2500 for the entire system with the monitor. Does anyone have a suggestion how I might reconfigure to accompish this?<br>

Thanks,TerriM</p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>I started with an HP workstation with a Xeon Quad Core processor (which has a built-in heat exchanger and fan), added a second Xeon Quad and built up the memory to 8G. That is ample for editing even very large images in Photoshop (e.g., stitched 450MB medium format panoramas). With the second processer, it cost about half what you propose to spend.</p>

<p>The "Professional" version of Win7 adds a few features and only costs another $10. Go 64-bit from the start. None of your old drivers will work, which means obsolete printers and scanners won't work either. You can download and run a free XP partition from Microsoft, but it has limited access to the hardware layer. It works fine with XP-only software, however. Photoshop, Lightroom and Premiere Pro (my staples) do a good job using multi-processors, most others do not.</p>

<p>You definitely don't need an SDD drive, and 80GB is hardly adequate. Get two or three 7200 rpm, 1TB drives, and anything more can be used externally. Do get a BD burner <strong>and </strong>a DVD/CD burner. BD burners are down to $130 or so, and BDR discs are as little as $2.50. BD's are good for a quick archival backup. DVDs are size-challenged in for even 12MP DSLRs, much less film scans (35mm comes in at 148 MB with a Coolscan 4000). Not all programs will recognize a BD drive, so you need a second drive ($30) just in case.</p>

<p>I have a stack of USB2 and now eSATA-300 drives I uses for working backup. They're not as secure as DVD/BD backups, but a lot easier to use. Drives are too cheap to reformat and reuse these days.</p>

<p>It sounds like overkill on the video card. Get something with 512MB of video RAM, and you're gold. I have an ATI Radeon 1440 which I use to edit up to four simultaneous streams of 1080p video.</p>

<p>Get something middle of the road for a monitor. I have a 20" NEC P221W ($300) which cleans up nicely with calibration. You need a calibration kit, of course. Use the money you don't spend on a pimped computer to get an X-Rite Pro kit.</p>

<p>Splurge and get an eSATA card ($35) for external drives. Get one with port-multiplier compatibility, and you can build your own TB RAID for under $300. SATA-300 is twice as fast as Firewire 800, assuming you could get FW-800 to work under Win7.</p>

[jerry thirsty]

<p>I don't see a lot of price cutting to be had there. In your shoes I'd bump the CPU down to a 920 (very overclockable if you ever feel you need to get into that), dump the SSD, and scale the RAM down to 6GB if necessary. Otherwise the only big savings is to cut out the third party assembler and do it yourself, or find a friend that can.</p>

<p>FWIW, I had color issues with my HP LP2475w monitor until I got a hardware calibrator. You might want to consider adding one to your shopping list.</p>

[garrison_k.]

<p>YOu mentioned in your previous post that you wished for a system to last years to come. I don't think this is wise today and think you are spending too much for something that will be outdated and slow in two years.<br>

Building PC's are so easy. And a properely built system is a pleasure to use. I'd find a tech in your city that can configure software RAID O and will set up your system with partitions and then purchase parts from newegg.com and go that route. I'm not into the resellers and the service/warranty. And paying your tech and buying from newegg should be cheaper too.<br>

 <br>

Start with an Antec Sonata case that comes with a power supply. It will handle your needs.<br>

 <br>

Look on newegg for "gaming bundle deals" that have the i7-920 or i7-930. These combo's come with cpu, mobo, and ram. Make sure the mother board has sata 6gb/s and usb3 but any pair of caviar black drives will be a great choice.<br>

 <br>

Do not go ssd right now; huge waste of money for how little you get. I'd go with RAID O with two Western Digital Caviar Black drives. There's only a few that have the new 6gb/s sata. I like the Western Digital 1 TB. Fastest 7200rpm drive going. Careful which version as there are two. You want the newest with 64mb cache and 6 gb/s. These with Intel Matrix software raid and you a very fast hdd with a ton of storage.<br>

 <br>

I don't do bluray. People put off their burning until they have enough to fill one or feel it's worthwhile. Guess what? Accidents happen in the meantime. Instead, I go dual layer dvd and use 8 gig cf cards. One card per dvd. My folder are set up that way as well. Burners are $25 and disks are $0.50<br>

 </p>

[waltflanagan]

<p>Look at a P55 based motherboard instead of X58. Sometimes you can save $100 right there. You'll also save some money on an 800 series CPU. Of course you're limited to 4 DIMM slots instead of 6 but 4GB modules have come down in price so you could get 2x4GB and go to 16GB later if you wanted. I think BluRay on a computer is a waste of money. You can buy an external 1TB drive for backups and most people want to watch movies on their HDTV not computer. The SSD can be great but it really depends on your usage pattern. Mine has my OS so it boots super fast but it stays on 24/7 so this isn't that helpful. I also use it to store meta data like the catalogs for the workflow programs. It helps there but SSDs are just too small to actually store all of my images.</p>

[timm_douglas]

<p>I would look at Gateway. For $1700, you can have a factory-built machine that will do what you need. Gateway machines are excellent. <br>

I would research upcoming hardware at theinquirer.net to see what's being released on the horizon. USB 3, for example, is expected to be out in 2012.<br>

For software, I'd not buy anything, I'd keep what you have and not buy anything else.<br>

Also, I think LCD monitors, which are our only option at the moment, are the biggest bottleneck right now in digital image quality. Until OLED is out, the monitors hinder our seeing the full richness and detail of our pictures. So many people obsess over the newest digital cameras, but it's pointless because of LCD. You won't see it discussed, but it's the reality that undermines everything we do with the camera. Because of this, people really need to keep their expectations down when it comes to digital photography.<br>

Sadly, the electronics and software makers have created a money pit for those who want DSLR cameras. And it's pointless because we can't even see everything on our monitors. <br>

Unless you're selling your pictures or services, I'd keep the costs low. If OLED monitors come out within the next few years, that is where you will get the most bang for your buck when it comes to digital photography. <br>

I love taking pictures and seeing them on my PC but I realize that I'm not even seeing the full richness and detail due to LCD monitors. I am also at peace with my equipment and why I take pictures. Too many people think upgrading equipment will improve their skills or credibility - it doesn't.<br>

I do realize that your current machine is broken, so you do need something. Just don't believe you have to spend a lot to do what you need to.<br>

Good luck!</p>

[terri_m]

<p>I have some things to think about thanks to these helpful suggestions.</p>

<p>I'm going to put together a list of components from newegg and compare the cost of having it built by someone locally. </p>

<p>I think it sensible to delete the SSD as suggested. So many of the reps insist this is far better than regular hard drives so I felt it was the way to go. But I would really like to cut costs and this is one way to do it.</p>

<p>Edward: I'm not sure I follow the full function of the optical drives. When you refer to BD drive I think you mean a Blu-Ray. Due to my limited computer knowledge, the optical drive is used for burning files onto a DVD, loading programs, and viewing movies. I don't use them for back up since I have an external HD. I think I need more education on this component.</p>

<p>Does anyone care to enlighten me on the optical drive and it's job for digital imaging?<br>

As suggested, I was thinking of skipping the Blu-ray to save money. I realize I won't watch blu-ray movies at my computer desk. </p>

<p>Yes to the calibration software.</p>

<p>Can anyone suggest a monitor besides the one's mentioned. I'm not going to spend $1000 so I thought my choice a decent one. However, from my reading the NEC monitors are worth a look.</p>

<p>Thanks for the helpful information. </p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>To be very blunt; it sounds like you have no goals but want to spend cash on a capital expense that drops in value more than 50 to 70 percent per year. It is your money.</p>

<p>If you mention your file sizes to be worked on; one can get a better answer.</p>

<p>In a professional application; one mentions what size file one is going to work on; whether combining images; adding layers. Then there is a rational way to see what system is required.</p>

<p>In an amateur application; one avoids mentioning any facts that matter; ie file size; thus there is no answer.</p>

<p>*****You can spend 2 to 6 k on a new computer and it might be not any faster than a used Ebay 75 buck PC Pentium 4 with XP Pro; thus you flushed 2 to 6k down the toilet.</p>

<p>This is a core tenet of amateur dialog; zero goals; but gobs of info about hardware. Unless one mentions what size files one is going to be working on; there are no answers to these type questions.</p>

<p>With time your dream machine becomes just an old computer; then it gets laughed at. If 6 grand is just pocket change; then just buy the fastest machine to keep the economy rolling.</p>

<p>Your list of goodies costs way less than out 1994 Photoshop dream machine; 75 Mhz; Monitor; 9600 modem; fast 3800 rpm drive and wazoo controller; giant 800 meg HDA; 17" CRT high end ; 72 megs ram; Win3.11. The ram along cost about what your new computer is going to cost; if one considers inflation.</p>

<p>A 300 buck Walmart HP computer here from Jan 2009 has Vista 32bit Home and 3 gigs ram; Athlon 5000; DVD/CD burner; built in NIC and dialup modem; built in card readers ; 6 USB 2.0 slots and 1 firewire.</p>

<p>With CS2 Photoshop a photo that is</p>

<p>298 megs rotates 90 degrees in 1.1 seconds;</p>

<p>446 megs rotates 90 degrees in 1.3 seconds;</p>

<p>576 megs rotates 90 degrees in 11.4 seconds; one is now running out of ram since CS2 with this sees really 2 gigs max</p>

<p>Thus If you spend 3 to 6 grand on a wazoo Photoshop box; in 2 years a 300 buck Walmart box will beat or match it.</p>

<p>If you mess with giant files; the latest expensive machine can save time. If you are just shooting dinky dlsr images; a 300 buck box can be just as quick.<br /> <br /> Your 6 grand dream machine might rotate that 446 meg file in 0.3 seconds; if you do this 60 times a day; you save 1 minute but pay 5700 bucks for than gain; ie 342k dollars per hour<br /> <br /> If you want the latest CPU of the Week; you can spend gobs of cash.</p>

<p>Many times an intermediate machine that is new but not the super latest has a radically lower cost</p>

<p>Here I started with punch cards and mainframes. I have about 3 dozen PC's in use at my print shop; of all vintages. There is a lot of work where even with big files the latest machine is not required.</p>

<p>There is really no way to say what class of computer you need at all. It is like you and everybody else are all wound up in the amateur world of specs on lawnmowers; but folks do not have enough wisdom yet to think about the size of lawn. You might be buying a 6 thousand dollar 54" mower for a lawn that is 80 feet square.</p>

<p>***With time all computer stuff becomes worthless:</p>

<p>The first CD burner here cost 650 bucks and was a 2x unit. I got it because I had to burn CD's for clients.</p>

<p>DVD burners came out and at first were 500 bucks; now they are in Walmart 300 buck computers.</p>

<p>BluRay burners cost more than that 300 buck machine back in Jan 2009; burners where about 550 bucks.</p>

<p>***In ram eons ago with Photoshop 16 megs of ram was once 1000 bucks; when Photoshop say 3.0 was about 550 to 600 bucks. Fully bore Photoshop cost the same as ones 17" CRT; or 16 megs of ram.</p>

<p>***Thus the real question is if you compare new 300, 700, 1000, 1500, 2200, 3000, 4000, 6000 buck computers; where is the spot that fits YOU.</p>

<p>For many folks the 700 to 1000 buck machine can be as good as the 6000 buck one; plus you can then buy a 5000 buck dslt too.</p>

<p>The office box stores have 64 bit machines with 8gig and sometimes 12 to 16 gigs of ram with quad core and Win 7 that are lightyears head of dream machines from a few years ago; and many cost less than a grand.</p>

[waltflanagan]

<p>Blu-ray Disc abbreviated as BD. It serves the same purpose as a DVD only higher capacity and currently more expensive. I have no use for it (in a PC), others do.</p>

[terri_m]

<p>Kelly: I appreciate blunt. <br>

I really must say in my defense that I do have goals. The goal is to learn digital photography. The digital workroom is part of that education. </p>

<p>It's true, I don't know what size files I'm working on because I'm just starting out. It's also true that I'm shooting "dinky" dslr images. Unfortunately my computer crashed and so I thought I should make an educated purchase on a system that would make working with files a lot faster. <br>

I like the idea of spending less on the pc. I'd rather get more photo equipment. </p>

<p>Since I'm learning and technology changes rapidly I think it makes sense to consider scaling down while I learn.<br>

Thanks for adding your interesting perspective. </p>

<p> </p>

[Mike D]

<p>Got a Blu-ray CD/DVD R/W burner player installed on my computer a few years ago to do backups but never use it anymore. For backup, I rotate Iomega prestige 2-TB external hard drives which you can buy at any time. I could have gotten by with a much less expensive CD/DVD player.</p>

[terri_m]

<p>I'm going to do a search on this but thought I'd ask here.<br>

Can I get a laptop and hook up an external monitor? What considerations are needed for this type of set up?<br>

Thanks.</p>

[garrison_k.]

<p>You certainly can and many are doing this. I just bought my gf a 15" Dell with an i3 and 4 gig of ddr3 for $500. It even has hdmi and usb3.</p>

[daviddbfotoart]

<p>I just purchased a similar computer, minus the blu-ray as it has no practical purpose unless you're producing video's, only 1 drive, but I'll get another, for scratch purposes, but I have a number of external drives for storage. The computer doesn't really need storage space, just enough for performance. 12gb of ram is possibly over the top at the moment. I have 6gb, and photoshop now works quicker than I can use it.<br>

I am under the impression that the HP monitor you've mentioned is a TN film, not an IPS monitor. I may be wrong. The monitor is the single biggest improvement you can make to your digital imagery. I have a Viewsonic pro graphics model with an ips panel as it was really cheap, and I can't justify a $5000 Eizo.</p>

[jack_hogan]

<p>Terri,<br>

Having just gone through a similar process myself, for amateur type use I think you are spending way too much (I am not a gamer, though).</p>

<p>That kind of power is really important if you need to process the 500 pictures taken at the Saturday wedding by Monday morning. If, on the other hand, you are like most of us, take 100 pictures during the weekend 95 of which you do minimal stuff to but spend a lot of time on your favorite 5, then the Wallmart special mentioned earlier would work fine today and you can buy a lot of future proofing with a system costing less than $1.5k (with dual monitors and colorimeter).</p>

<p>I would go for a Gateway or HP i7-8series (alternatively i5-7series), 6-8GB DDR3 1333 RAM, 1TB+ HD (7200 non eco), NVidia 220+ series video card with dual outputs, Win 7HP+, Dell U2410 or HPlp2475w monitor plus a second run of the mill monitor, Spyder 3 Express colorimeter (yes, it easily calibrates DUAL monitor setups in Win7). You can get all of the above for less than $1500. If you need to spend more today you run into the pro photographer/gaming category.</p>

 

[terri_m]

<p>Hi Jack:<br>

It has come up numerous times in my research that memory and hard drive space is vital as well as a fast processor. When I go to Dell and HP and configure 8GB RAM, 2 hard drives, and an i7 I'm still in the $2k plus range without a monitor. The HP490t is very expensive and about the same as the custom builders. This makes me think that I'm better off using the components from a custom builder because they tell you every item being used and don't skimp on power either.</p>

<p>I don't want to cut back on RAM. The only place to cut is the hard drive storage and video card. Right now I configured a Dell and HP with hard drive storage as primary- 1..0TB and secondary as 750GB. </p>

<p>With that said, the only custom builder I might consider is well known and local so I think support and service issues are a bit more convenient. Dell and HP...well we all know about them. I've had some real issues with Dell in the past but I think they're improving.</p>

<p>I really appreciate your input. Let me know if I really need all that storage.<br>

Thanks, all the comment have been helpful but I'm still struggling with making the purchase.</p>

[roger_smith4]

<p>I'd check techbargains.com for deals. </p>

<p>There's a Dell 6 core AMD that's very high on the passmark CPU benchmark list for about $700. That would leave a lot of room for a good monitor ($5-700) and calibration hardware. Honestly, that system is overkill for many photographers. I'm using a Pentium IV laptop with 2GB of ram and Windows XP and almost never run out of ram and only now am starting to notice that new programs are slow (LR2 ran well, LR3 is pokey, CS3 runs great).</p>

<p>My next computer is likely to be another laptop (intel i5 or AMD equivalent) as I like lower power consumption and portability. Just about any Intel i series processor with a dedicated graphics processor should be more than adequate for Photoshop and Lightroom.</p>

[garrison_k.]

<p>http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.514111</p>

[terri_m]

<p>Garrison: I'm showing that to my local builder. Thanks!</p>

<p>In the meantime I tried configuring an HP450t. I was thinking I just about had it right and at a decent price point when I checked the power supply and found it to be only 300w. I don't know how this effects the system performance but it is very low compared to most systems I've looked at.<br>

The Gateway was interesting too with 750w of power but no customization allowed and only one hard drive. The system looked great but the website left a lot to be desired as far as help available IMHO.</p>

<p>The HP has the following:<br>

17-870;GPU-HD4850,8GB RAM 4DIMM-DDR3,1333; HD1-1TB7200rpm;HD2-1TB 7200rpm; no blu-ray; 300w power supply. Memory card reader, wireless keyboard, Windows 7 premium and MS Home and Student.<br>

No Monitor or Adobe Software<br>

Cost:$1420 without any warranty.<br>

It seems the affordable way to go accept for my concern with the power. Should this be an issue?</p>

 

[jack_hogan]

<p>That power supply is a tad on the low side, but you do not need much more than 300W unless you plan to overclock or buy a power hungry video card (which you do not need for photography - the cooler/quieter the better). The 2TB HD space is also overkill, but that will not move your budget by much. Having two or more drives is a good idea for speed and reliability (there are threads that explain why). They do not all have to be 1TB in size, though, and you can get fast 500GB HDs for less than $50 a pop.</p>