Need advise

[mugundhan_varadanarayanan]

<p>I bought sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4.5 used from Pentax forums site. The seller delivered it promptly and I was testing the lens. I was operating the zoom and took pics wide-open/ stopped at both 17mm and 70mm. I wud've taken abt 75 pix. Then when I was zooming the lens, the zoom ring started rotating without moving the zoom. I sent it back to the seller. Now the seller sends this email back:<br>

"Mugundhan,<br>

I reverse engineered the "failure" and it was no mechanical failure. In fact, what had happened was that the zoom ring was forced off of the pin that moves the barrel in and out.<br>

Fortunately, there was not any significant damage and was repaired within an hour. However, the movements of the of the two rings are slightly rougher than before. This does not affect proper usage.<br>

Optically, it's unaffected.<br>

I'm going to send it back to you. Unless you have a good reason as to why the zoom ring was forced off its track, it's going back to you. This sort of damage is litterally impossible to achieve by the post office. No amount of dropping would torque the zoom ring. As I stated before, it was in great condition when I sent it to you, so something happened between when I sent it out and when I got it back.<br>

As far as I see it, there was no problem on my side, so the lens is going back to you. If you'd like it professionally serviced and repaired, that's your prerogative. I sent you a working lens, and you sent it back citing a mechanical failure that was shown to be user error.<br>

Brendan." </p>

There are not many ways to operate a zoom ring and the seller believes it is an user error. I believe that the zoom thing would have failed anyway and I happened to be the operator. Now whose responsibility is this? I dont want the lens now after seeing the problem. Am I being unreasonable? I just want different perspectives and if I am wrong, I am willing to take it back

I paid through paypal

Thanks

Mugundhan

[mountainvisions]

<p>Honestly, if it worked when you received it, and it sounds like it did, it's just bad luck and your loss.</p>

<p>People buy used cars all the time where things catastrophically go wrong on the way home. My friend once bought a CRX from a private seller, he knew the car and it's owner, and it was well cared for. Rounding a corner he downshifted and reved it a bit (well within reason) and the motor failed (I forget specifically, but I believe he threw a rod). </p>

<p>Just bad luck, he paid for the repair himself as the problem wasn't something the seller knew about or could have prevented.</p>

<p>I bought a laptop used once, it worked for about 2 weeks and then the inverter board died for the LCD. Turned out it was a known problem with that laptop, wasn't the sellers fault.</p>

<p>Unfortunately when you buy used merchandise you run a risk for the reward of lower price point.</p>

<p>Unless you truly think the seller knowlingly sold you a defective lens, I would accept the loss or possibly work out a partial refund.</p>

[mugundhan_varadanarayanan]

<p>Thank you Justin,<br>

What you are saying is reasonable and I guess when the seller sends it back, I need to be extremely delicate<br>

I typed an email saying " I cannot accept the lens blah blah" but for some reason held back my emotional response and thought can get other opinion... Now that some time has passed to cool off, what you are saying makes sense...<br>

I want to buy the sigma lens used mainly because it avoids the bad copy (I want to buy the Pentax one new so that I can get the warranty coverage for the SDM problems but it is way more expensive ....) I hope this lens is now usable. Optically this lens is a nice copy though</p>

<p>Mugundhan</p>

[jgredline]

<p>I hate to say it, but I agree with Justin. This is the reason I buy new when I can. The truth is that few people (regulars) on these forums would ever knowingly sell something defective. I have sold over 2 dozen lenses on PF and 2 cams here on P.net and have had wonderful transactions. I have also bought many things on P.net and PF with great luck as well. </p>

<p>On a second note, I can see where what the seller described could have happened having owned many Sigma Lenses. So like Justin said...... </p>

<blockquote>

<p>Unless you truly think the seller knowlingly sold you a defective lens, I would accept the loss or possibly work out a partial refund.</p>

</blockquote>

[michael_elenko]

<p>Mugundhan,<br>

I understand your frustration and slight bewilderment. A fair number of forum regulars here, including me, buy and sell items on that same board. Over the years I've never had any issues, so I feel that your situation is not that common.</p>

<p>That said, there are too many pronouncements in the buyer's response to you that make me somewhat uncomfortable. On the auction site, I once had a buyer complain about a non-Pentax lens I sold. Even though I disagreed with his findings (and it was not physical damage, but fungus he alleged), I issued a partial refund to cover his cleaning costs. To me it's more important to ensure customer satisfaction than to save a few shekels and sully my online seller reputation. I'll be buying and selling lenses for quite a while longer.</p>

<p>I would consider negotiating a partial refund. Point out possibly false assumptions and be reasonable. Keep communicating with the seller, and avoid emotional responses if you can. I consider feedback on that site to be very important, and I would think my peers do as well.</p>

<p>ME</p>

[mugundhan_varadanarayanan]

<p>Hi Justin, Jared and Michael,<br>

Thanks for the responses<br>

My major peeve is all I did is turn the zoom ring and it started rotating without zoom action and now the seller is saying it is user error... How many ways are there to zoom a lens?<br>

Other than that I agree with you guys saying that when you buy used one, you accept the risk... I will try and see whether I can get some partial refund</p>

<p>Thanks,<br>

Mugundhan</p>

[orly_andico]

<p>Theory: the pin for the zoom lens was already failing intermittently, hence the seller's expertise in repairing it. So the lens "works," but would be almost guaranteed to throw a pin with normal use (easily repaired but a big hassle).</p>

<p>I know this doesn't help and would probably make you feel worse. Sorry.</p>

[mountainvisions]

<blockquote>

<p>So the lens "works," but would be almost guaranteed to throw a pin with normal use (easily repaired but a big hassle).</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>If this is the case, than a full refund is in order.</p>

<p>I noted sometimes bad luck happens. If someone sells me something they know is broken, well, that isn't bad luck, it's being scammed.</p>

<p>Now you need to figure out if Orlando's theory is true. If it is, time for a refund. If it isn't, stick with the working out a reasonable and fair solution.</p>

<p> </p>

[andrewg_ny]

<p>I was thinking the same thing--that a problem like this might easily be known about and passed on assuming that the lens was otherwise fine--meaning if handled gently it's OK but just a little extra torque and it appears. I think it's up to you as to whether this is worth fighting over or not--how serious the problem actually is vs. additional money spent on shipping, etc. </p>

<p>It would seem that the seller is being a little bit aggressive as far as suggesting the fault is yours which may make a refund request more difficult. Perhaps be prepared to eat all the shipping costs in order to make a graceful exit from the transaction. You didn't mention how long you had the lens before returning it--as a seller I would feel much worse about something like this being noticed within a day or two after the buyer received it but would be more suspicious if they'd had it for two weeks.</p>

[mugundhan_varadanarayanan]

<p>Hi Andrew,<br>

My wife picked up the lens from the post office saturday morning (Labor day weekend, I used it Saturday evening and I noticed the problem Sunday morning when I was zooming it. I emailed him immediately. It happened without even a sound, it just started rotating. That is the reason why when the seller says "user error" I am bewildered. Zoom lens is to be used by zooming, there are not many ways to zoom a lens. I took off the lens but was able to mail it back to him the following friday<br>

Like Orlando said, that is my fear, the problem happens intermittently, even if the guy sends it now, the zoom ring will come off any time...I asked that guy as to how many photos he has taken with it. I gave him my number and told him not to ship it back to me until we understand what is the problem/ solution. I want amicable resolution. Money loss is something we can accept as part of life but accepting a lens with known defect is bit hard. I had the lens just for a day and I noticed the problem. Again like Justin said earlier, when we buy used we need to accept the problems but when the seller was able to "reverse engineer" the problem and say user error, then I am bit cautious<br>

Mugundhan</p>

 

[jgredline]

<p>For some reason I was thinking you where talking about the '' auto / manual clutch mechanism'' some sigma lenses have. Not the zoom ring. It does sound like something fishy now.</p>

[mugundhan_varadanarayanan]

<p>Quick update:<br>

The seller refunded me the whole amount minus the shipping charges. Thanks for all the advices :)<br>

Regards,<br>

Mugundhan</p>