Avoiding Shadows when using Fill Flash Outdoors

[patrick_acker]

<p>I have a canon xsi and a 430ex flash and tried to underexpose the b/g while evenly exposing the subject with flash in a portrait i was doing and got a shadow. how can this be fixed? I was using a 70-300mm sigma (not a fantastic lens but gets the job done) and stood a little over 15 back (btw this was outdoors and using a direct flash without a diffuser). the shadow was on the right side of the subject. was the flash too powerful? ive heard about fill flash on this external flash. how would i get a great looking portrait with using this hotshoe flash? please be detailed on instructions for the flash and camera. (something i did try was metering the background using evaluative metering, locked the exposure, and refocused on the subject's eyes at around 250mm and zoomed out to about 70 so that the eyes were sharp and clearly in focus but i just cant figure out how not to get the horrible shadow :/) thanks!</p>

[patrick_acker]

<p>also, i sometimes will get an overexposed subject if metering the background then the subject so i guess my other question is what do i meter if i want the b/g underexposed slightly and the foreground (subject) properly or slightly overexposed? thanks.</p>

[franklin_white]

<p>Can you show the photo? I'm having a hard time figuring out what you are describing. </p>

[steve_levine]

<p>We really need to see an example of the shadows, in order to suggest ways to eliminate them. Fill flash fired from above the lens usually throws shadows downwards and behind the subject. If one shoots away from horizontal surfaces, the shadows have no where to fall.</p>

[chad_thomas2]

<p> The problem is that your light source is so small (meaning surface area of the light, not the power) that it produces hard light and used pointed directly at your subject without a diffuser, will get you shadows every time. Gary Fong makes a "Lightsphere" that works pretty well, not great, but better than nothing. If you can, try and always bounce the light off of anything that would enlarge the area like a wall, ceiling, etc.. If there is nothing to bounce off of, use a reflector and bounce off that. It will produce a much larger softer light! I normally use my strobes outdoors, but when I cant, I use the speedlights with umbrellas or the reflector, or a large piece of white foam board to bounce off as a last resort. Hope that helps!</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>The normal solution to shadows from a camera mounted flash is to put the flash on a bracket, which raises the flash as much as a foot above the lens and drops the shadow below and behind the subject, usually out of sight. I like the Stroboframe bracks and have three or four. The onces where you flip the camera between vertical and horizontal are better than the ones where you flip the flash back and forth. Varoius diffusers can reduce the harshness. Big ones like Gary Fong are probably better but I like the little StoFen Omnibouce and also the Lumiquest Soft Box (other companies make a similar soft box). Your flash is not "too powerful." You just have to get the right combination of f-stop and shutter speed.</p>

[frank uhlig]

<p>Get a flash bracket and adjust so that the flash is always straight above the lens. Then the persons will cover their shadows behind their bodies. Simple geometric solution to the problem when a shadow will appear with side mounted flash.</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>On a side note, unrelated to the flash: zooming in, focusing, and the zooming back out ... it <em>not</em> always a good way to make sure you've got what you want in focus. On many zoom lenses, focus point will drift (distance-wise) when you change focal length.<br /><br />As for using diffusors and reflectors outdoors, especially when shooting at the distance you describe: remember that distance really gobbles up power. Using a diffusor outdoors (like the Fong unit mentioned) throws much of the flash power away, since it's sending light all over the place, with only <em>some</em> of it actually getting to your subject. Using a reflector outdoors increases the distance the light has to travel, and loses you some of the power in the the reflecting and dispursing of that light. <br /><br />Yes, having a larger light source will soften things. But at that distance, "larger" should mean "a whole wall or ceiling acting as a reflector." If you use a typical portable reflector (say, 30") at fifteen feet, that's <em>not</em> a large light source. Even if the flash is bright enough to do some good after that, you're still going to get shadows.<br /><br />The key is to get the flash off-camera and in a position where cast shadows are either non-intrusive, or at least natural looking.<br /><br />I might not have noticed, but if the flash was on-camera, were you shooting in landscape or portrait orientation?</p>

[patrick_acker]

 

<p><a href="http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs628.snc4/58882_1373609500893_1251454786_30852743_2677247_n.jpg">http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs628.snc4/58882_1373609500893_1251454786_30852743_2677247_n.jpg</a><br>

^^^thats the shot. i do have a sto-fen. and didnt know whether to use it or not. any alternatives to getting a flash bracket? dont have the money to get one </p>

 

 

[gabriel_buta]

<p>Hi Patrick,<br>

the way i see it, the camera was held in portrait mode and the flash on the left side, at no anlge, pointed directly on the subject. If you don't want to put something on the flash, try at a different angle, 45 ..it might solve the issue..for me it did..</p>

[steve_levine]

<p>I stand by my answer. Lose the background. The shadow is only there because it has something on which to fall. If the dog were out on the lawn without any nearby background, there wouldn't be any shadows. <em>Shadows need a surface to appear upon</em>. It is the simplest, easiest concept there is.</p>

[frank uhlig]

<p>Patrick, having now seen your picture, what is wrong with the shadow? I would think the shadow adds to separate the dog (white) from the clutter in the back via its near black shadow.</p>

<p>I think the pic is nice as it is and makes good use of shadow. Look at the picture (by Diane Arbus) of the giant man, crouching under the 8 foot ceiling with a shadow on the wall behind to emphasize the size. (google "Diane Arbus giant" and see!)</p>

[paul_duerinckx]

<p>If you do want the background but want the shadow less obvious, reduce the amount of flash in the image. I can see that this is a strong amount of fill-in exaggerated by the fact that the dog is in shadow. You title your question '... using fill flash outdoors' yet your ambient to fill ratio seems close to 1:1. 2:1 would be quite strong and 4:1 or more even better to get a subtle, natural effect. For TTL use the Flash Exposure Compensation and try taking at least a stop out of the flash. With more ambient light, the shadow would be less intrusive.</p>

[kevin_delson]

<p>Not too much can be done to remedy this given the shooting situation.<br>

Studio settings can obviously eliminate this; but you were not shooting in a studio.</p>

<p>As others mentions, reducing the flash contribution and increasing the ambient will go a long way to mitigate the harsh shadow, especially with on camera flash.</p>

<p> Dragging the shutter is one way.<br>

Getting the flash off camera is another.<br>

The Sto-Fen omni bounce works to an extent, but for outdoor use where you need as much flash power as can be mustered, I'd leave it off.</p>

<p>Flash is limited in it's scope of use. YOU have to decide wheich one to employ.</p>

<p>1) Flash is the primary contributor.<br>

2) Flash is the secondary contributor. (Fill type 1)<br>

3) Flash is balanced with abient. (Fill type 2)</p>

[scott_ferris]

<p>Patrick,</p>

<p>Some good advice here. I understand that you want to achieve. Cheapest route, use your diffuser and get an off camera cord and just hold the flash out with your left arm.</p>

<p>Now specifics, put your camera in manual and your flash in manual too. Set 1/100 and f5.6 and 1/4 power on your flash. Take a picture, how does it look? Probably pretty bad! But it is your starting point; if the dog is dark up the flash power, too light, then back it off. How is the background? Too light, raise your shutter speed, too dark, lower your shutter speed.</p>

<p>The key to what you are trying to achieve is to understand that, basically, shutter speed controls your ambient light, your aperture and flash power control your subject illumination. You need (well it is much easier with more consistent results) both camera and flash to be in manual to have this kind of control. As has been said, get some separation from your background, use a diffuser, get your flash off the hotshoe with an off camera cable, don't zoom in to focus then zoom out to shoot, get closer, and play with your settings.</p>

<p>The picture below was taken exactly how I said above, one flash off the hotshoe (I didn't use a cord but could have done so for this image) with a small Lumiquest diffuser. All in manual, shutter controlled background, flash and aperture controlled the dog. EXIF 1/40 sec, f5.6, iso 100, manual flash at 1/4.</p>

<p>Hope this helps, Scott.</p><div></div>

[patrick_acker]

Thank you everyone for your posts! This has helped a bunch! Scott, perfect explanation and great photo! Thanks for

the example!

 

But one other thing, as for an off camera flash cable, have u heard of a Yongnuo 301p flash trigger? From the

reviews, it's a cheap alternative to a pocketwizard (roughly $40 for trigger and 2 recievers). The receivers have a tripod

mount so I could mount on there. What do you guys think?

[scott_ferris]

<p>Patrick,<br>

Don't get the 301's, get the <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/YONGNUO-RF-602-Wireless-Remote-Flash-Trigger-Canon-/370424056912?pt=Camera_Flash_Accessories&hash=item563efe8c50">far better 602's</a>, I have a set, make sure you get the Canon version for your camera and you'll get a remote cord that works as a wireless shutter release too. The advantage of wireless is flexibility, the disadvantage is that you lose a lot of flash functionality, HSS, FEC etc, BUT, learning manual first is the best way anyway. Go for it.</p>