Bride unhappy with Photos what to do

[dan_l_vv]

<p>

<p>Hi Guys,<br>

You can say i am practically new with wedding photography (3 years only) so i never really charged for a wedding as i felt i was still in training and the couples new that.<br>

Well where to begin in March this year i was approached by a couple which the bride was a brides maid at a wedding i took a year before and asked if i can give them a quote. i quoted them R 2500.00 total for: *200 photo's *Hardcover 28pg Coffee table book *taking pictures from 12:00 to 10:30 *4 Copies of the CD for their convenience.<br>

She came back to me and told me that she does not want the Coffee table book and that she was hoping to pay only R 1500.00, at that stage i got that feeling (6th sense) that i should rather tell her that i can't do the wedding. so i told her i will only do the wedding for that price and that package otherwise she should rather ask another photographer. its not about the money for me, i really enjoy taking wedding pictures.<br>

So she told me that it's fine i can take their wedding pictures. i told her that it is 40% deposit and the rest upon receipt of their photos. i also asked her if they saw the pictures of the wedding that she was a bridesmaid on and she replied yes and that she was happy with them.<br>

So I scheduled a meeting with her to show them my Portfolio as I really want her to be sure that I must do her wedding, well only she was home for the meeting and I explained how it works and showed her my Portfolio. She was happy.</p>

<p>

Then the wedding came her husband wasn’t very fond of photos and didn’t smile a lot there was also family problems, it rained cats and dogs etc. We took most of the wedding pictures inside because of the rain and later when it stopped went outside to take more pictures outside but it was dark already.<br>

From the beginning she had a problem with her body (3 months pregnant) she kept on going on how fat she is and that I must use Photoshop to make her thinner I honestly tried! This was the wedding which photo’s I worked the hardest on with Photoshop to try to keep her happy.<br>

Bottom line is that she phoned me when she received the photos and said that she isn’t happy with all the photos (angles) and basically insinuated that she wants her money back, but not in those words. Well I asked her to give me a list of the photos she is not happy with and we can work something out. She just kept at it that I must show her all the photos and also insinuated that I must give them to her for exchange for the other photo’s she does not want. I mean she already got them how can she exchange them any case so I said I will show them to her but with no guarantee that it will be to her satisfaction and if she wants any of them I will first make sure the photo is good quality etc. and then give it to her as I do not want to give her raw photos (I have heard what people do with raw photos from a photographer)<br>

I am going to see her tonight and already paid 40% of their money back and will no longer do the coffee table book.<br>

I regret that I agreed to do their wedding, I just want to selvage the situation what to do?<br>

I thought about showing her before and after pictures in order for her to understand how much effort I did put in. I will be showing her all the photos except the blur etc.</p>

[william-porter]

<p>Danél,</p>

<p>I take it you are in Brazil? So you charged them about $1250 USD? </p>

<p>Do you have a contract? Does the contract provide any guidelines about the bride's remedies?</p>

<p>Your experience is one of the reasons why many wedding photographers almost insist on doing an engagement shoot or bridal portrait prior to the wedding. It gives you a way to get to know the clients. It gives them a way to see how you work and see the photos you can take. At that point, if the bride doesn't decide to fire you, she knows what kind of photos you take OF HER. Very important. The only way to know that a bride will be happy with your photos of her wedding, is to know that she has been happy with earlier photos you took of her.</p>

<p>As for the grumpy groom, I think we've all run into that problem. Ditto for bad weather. These are simply hazards of the job. You can only take photos of the wedding that actually takes place.</p>

<p>I doubt that the bride is going to be interested in how much time you've spent working on the images. I know exactly how you feel about this, but the truth is, clients do not care.</p>

<p>My only advice is, so long as you didn't do anything obviously and undeniably terrible (like grossly underexposing all the shots), then don't be too apologetic. Hear her out, and be sympathetic, but explain calmly that the wedding was not an ideal photo op and that the photos you got accurately reflect the wedding as it happened.</p>

<p>Ive been asked to make people look better, but I've never tried to make a pregnant woman look, um, not pregnant. I shot a pregnant bride a couple of years ago. I thought she was lovely—obviously pregnant, but very pretty.</p>

<p>Will</p>

[starvy]

<p>If you have a contract, you can enforce the terms. If you don't have a contract, she won't pay a penny more. However, do think about how you got this wedding. You need the business so just cut your losses and see how much more she is willing to pay without involving courts. In these times, you probably can't avoid the bad publicity in lost business.<br>

In the future, do an engagement shoot and insist on the full amount before the wedding.</p>

[BrianS1664879711]

<p>I'd be considering a name-change and a move to another country!</p>

<p>Seriously... I wouldn't do anything else until the customer is specific about her complaint -- which shots she is displeased with and why. If it is your fault, you can try to resolve the situation; if it is something beyond your control (like her pregnant body form, weather, etc) then it might be worth standing up to her.</p>

[theresa_skutt]

<p>Knowing that she was having a money issue ahead of time, is it possible she's using the "I'm unhappy" route for money only? </p>

[picturesque]

<p>Well, you've made a few 'mistakes'.</p>

<p>1. Giving any money back.</p>

<p>2. Letting the bride know you have other images she hasn't seen.</p>

<p>3. Working on any images of her without getting her final OK on it.</p>

<p>4. Agreeing to work on her images without putting a number limit on it before additional retouching charges apply.</p>

<p>I can't think of anything you can do at this point to get yourself out of this mess since you intend to play along with her demands. At this point, I'd tell her you will 'exchange' x images and stick to it. Anything after that you will charge for both retouching and prints.</p>

<p>I agree with William P. on this. She will not care how good you are with retouching or how much time you've spent on it so far. She is going to try to get everything she can out of you for nothing, including money back. You cannot reason with someone who is blinded by emotion, and a pregnant woman worried about body issues is definitely blinded by emotion.</p>

[rt_jones]

<p><strong><em>its not about the money for me, i really enjoy taking wedding pictures.</em></strong></p>

<p>Therein lies your problem. If you place no value on your work than why should anyone else?</p>

[savagesax]

There's a tool in photoshop called something like the liquid tool or the liquefier tool, can't remember the exact name. You can make a person look 50 pounds lighter, or 50 pound heavier. If she wants to look like she hasn't eaten in a month - no problem. It takes about 30 seconds to do this adjustment.

 

As far as posing the bouquet is your best friend. Always place the flowers in front of her and pose her in a 45 degree angle. This will totally get rid of her stomach.

 

The other people that posted are dead on so there's no need to add anything here.

[savagesax]

an example...<div></div>

[alex_alvarenga]

<p> We are on the same boat <3 years>. I am studying Photojournalism and as such I tell my clients upfront, I WILL NOT 'SHOP THEM TO MAKE THEM SKINNY. I don't know about charging your client that price and not giving them their money's worth. In my opinion you went and did it blind. I give the clients two options, the $1500 and the $500(the economic) >both are 8hrs long<. At $1500 I collab with my friend (who is a Professional Bookmaker and Printmaker) to create a really intimate album for the client(Created from scratch btw), depending on the event a personalized DVD and of course two types of engagement shoots, outdoors(two locations) and indoors (with studio strobes). For the cheaper set its just the images, and the studio engagement shoot. You always have to give them an engagement shoot, so that you can discover your clients good and bad side.<br>

BTW, Since when does putting <strong>value in your work</strong> mean MONETARY value? I place value in my work when my clients are happy with the results, their parents(or cherished ones) loved the images or when they tell me they blew up the images to "poster-size" and placed them on their wall, but that is just me.</p>

[daverhaas]

<p>Wow... Not much else can go wrong - except maybe you lose all the images in a storm...</p>

<p>Bob- It is under filters in Photoshop and it's called Liquefy.. Very useful in removal of love handles...also for fixing some distortion.</p>

<p>Your story is reason #1 why when / before files are delivered to the bride / couple - all images are renamed / numbered. If I don't give an image to the client - there's a reason. </p>

<p>Nadine made very valid points - including - you have now admitted to fault by giving her (bride) money back - Although reading your post again - I wasn't clear if you gave her that 40% upfront off of your rate or after she complained about the photos. In her eyes you're sunk... No matter what you do for her at this point, she will not be happy.</p>

<p>What I would do - is show her all of the photos at this point...don't edit or touch any of them further. Inidicate to her that you are willing to (GASP) give her the entire batch (including the bad ones) and that you will not edit them further. Offer no further refund (unless you are cutting a like amount of service out). </p>

<p>But my what I would do answer is based on my contract which states that photographer is not liable for acts of god (rain, snow, etc...) and that the limit of my liability shall be to turn over a copy of all images.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[dan_l_vv]

<p>*William Porter - I am from South Africa and only charged $342. No we did not set up a contract we only settled verbally.</p>

<p>I have another wedding 16th of October 2010 and I think I will definitely do an engagement shoot. Great Idea!</p>

<p>Its true there is always situations were you have to make the best of the situations handed to you.</p>

<p>Thank you so much for your input.</p>

<p>* RT Jones - That is what everybody keeps telling me. I am definitely going to change my point of view! thanx RT!</p>

<p>*Bon Bernardo - Thanx, something to keep in mind. Just one problem the bouquet was like 5 small barely open roses vs. bride it was not in balance at all.</p>

<p>*Starvy Goodfellow - As far as she is concerned they wasted their money, I don’t believe I will even get an extra penny out of them for more effort i put in.</p>

<p>*Brian Shaw - :) Thought about starting all over again being an assistant to get more experience. But any case I will not put my self in this situation again. </p>

<p>At first i didn't want to give her anything more before she told me what pictures she had a problem with, but she just keeps talking past that.</p>

<p>*Theresa Skutt - I do believe that might be the thing, but isn’t a 100% sure.</p>

<p>*Nadine Ohara - You are so right! I didn't see her yesterday can only see her today, and I am definitely not just going to sit there and let her demand demand demand. Thanx</p>

<p>It is such a special time in your life when you are pregnant why hide it?</p>

<p>Thank you so much guys I really appreciate all your responses!</p>

<p>In future I will be more prepared! </p>

<p> </p>

[dan_l_vv]

<p>Dave<br>

<br>

I know I totally messed it up!<br>

<br>

I only gave her the 40% back as that was for the coffee table book and didn’t want to complicate things more by doing the coffee table book even though she approves the layout as I know she will not be happy with anything I do at this stage.<br>

<br>

I will get all the original photos together and just take out the really bad ones hand it to her, she can then do with them what she would like. I will not do any further editing, if she wants me to edit I will charge her.<br>

<br>

I was going to go thru the photos with her and try to selvage what we can and before giving it to her edit it but that will be a waste of time.<br>

<br>

Your responses really helps thanx again.</p>

[daverhaas]

<p>So - the bride is pregnant and you are supposed to know to edit her down to per pregnacy proportions?</p>

<p>Um....unless it was discussed and agreed upon up front - before the wedding - No... not happening. </p>

[jason]

<p>You simply shot yourself in the foot! First if shooting for money,see how your price compares. It didn't.Way too little. If it were film,there would have been no money for film,never mind an album.You mentioned rain and dark. How horrible were the flash photos..Now you have a pregnant bride that shows. You should have kept good distance..Don't rely on photoshop.I would give back the money paid, give her the raw images..how raw is your decision. This is called experience! They happen all the time.<br>

Advice. When I started shooting pro stuff,it was model portfolios,head-shots.The more I charged,the less problems.No!You have to do a high end portfolio,use a pro printer(are there any left?). Digital is great but sometimes film is better. More latitude.Scanned you almost on same level as digital but with more dynamic range. I started in Joeys. I immediately saw by the "Rands" where You were from.My daughter probably paid 30 to 50 times more!!So you see your problem.First wedding in California, I undercharged for the amount of pix wanted.Before digital. Used 30+ rolls and still needed more. Explained to bride and groom, no possible.<br>

They liked my directness.I shot some portraits of the Family at another function, just for them. The light was stunning.No charge for a few Big prints. We became good friends.</p>

<p>Advice. I never simply shoot a wedding!<strong> I do one or more shoots before. </strong>Meet the groom,meet the bride,the parents. Do casual shoots. See how "WE" all work together! If there is one problem,there will be more. I do not do the wedding. I advise to find another snapper.<br>

All my weddings, Barmitzvahs, Batmitzvahs,Christenings,Parties, were shot same way. A prior shoot! See the results. If we all happy,it's a go!<br>

I always had an assistant. My one assitant was also the best make-up artist ever! I done advertising and Janice was better than anything sent by the agency.. Sadly if you need Her,ya gotta go to Southern California.<br>

The time when I reach the actual shoot,I have become a friend. I know many cannot work this way,but that's my way.</p>

<p> </p>

[richard_daggett]

<p>Danel<br>

Regardless of the terms of your specific wedding photography contract, when you market yourself as available to take wedding photos professionally, there is an implied contract that affords the customer a reasonable expectation that you at least know what you are doing; that you have some expertise in the field. Therefore, it is important that you take responsiblity for your work. However, if you are going to continue in the field of wedding photography, you are going to have to develop a certain professional discernment. By this I mean, if your customer is unsatisfied with her pictures because of your lack of knowlege or skill, then you must do what ever it takes to make good on your committment. If however, the brides dissatisfaction is due to her unreasonable expectations, which will probably happen several times over the course of your career, then you need to be willing to make a stand for yourself. Personally, I think that wanting you to make a pregnant bride look "not pregnant" in all of her pictures is an unreasonable expectation. First of all there are just too many photos to be giving this kind of attention to. I have been photoshopping professionally for 15 years, and contrary to what somebody wrote earlier, unless you have a singular subject posed against a solid color, featureless background, then "knocking 50 pounds" off somebody and making it look real without distorting the rest of the picture is somewhat more involved than 30 seconds with the contraction tool of the liquify filter. In my wedding photography, I do my best with the tools available to smooth out unflattering bulges, smooth out skin and fix blemishes. But a major post reshaping and makeover is definitely outside the reasonable responsibility of the photographer. I have told customers that if they want to choose a couple of images and have them reworked in this way I would be willing to do it after the fact; but that this would be a separate transaction and that I charge "x" amount of dollars per hour for photoshop editing of this nature.</p>

[laura_aquino]

<p>I am in a similar situation, but the bride is not really unhappy but wanting to get more photos from the ones presented. I edited out substandard colored and recovered that to black and white, delivered the CD for final product. And in the contract it said "photographer uses professional judgement to edit out, retouch, alter images according to their standard", so I did that thinking to please her. When she got the photo CD, complained why were the colored versions not in the CD. I explicitly said, they are considered bad photos so we recovered. Then she asked can I get the "ORIGINALS"... I mentioned we dont give all that without processing, and if she wants me to dig into it again, it requires a fee... of course she did not want to pay more.<br />Then she comes back to the signed proposal (paper given prior to service signing) - it states .. "All images will be in HiRES DVD..." -- she demands all images now since that constitutes the proposal and claims why the proposal was not consistent with the agreement....?<br />I mentioned, the proposal should still hold, and the "All Images" are the photos presented for proofing in the website. I burned all the photos that were proofed, and included event the ones she did not like and marked this as MASTER. I burned the proofed/like ones in a separate CD and marked/enhanced more as BESTPHOTOS.<br />She said "All images" should be all images..... so I just could not define it better, since she now knows I still hold the original photos. I mentioned it was not all perfect and I wanted to keep my standard so that other clients will go thru the same process... but she said<br />.... 'Its my wedding...i just want to have all the memories because I thought that thas was the one stated in the proposal....'<br>

I am just a new photographer in wedding field... and I wanted to start right and build my portfolio.. i mentioned to her that I do have 2 more weddings waiting for my time, since I thought I was done... and asked if she can wait so I can dig into the old files and retrieve the colored ones... she said ok...<br />So...thinking thinking... do I really want to deal with the same situation when another bride complains... i just wanted to simplify... i guess the point is...<br />Have someone scrutinize your agreement and proposal and make sure that "blurry" details should not be there... i told her, we are changing the process and making it better for all the future weddings. I hope she does not get upset again... i just hate to be in that situation when things go wrong....and when you thought is all ok...<br>

I thought I have done my best... i guess best is never enough...I just need to know how should I finish the deal when I give all the rest of the photos... when you hand the final product, should you again have them signed that everything went well and they accepted ast they are or just verbal?</p>

[picturesque]

<p>You can, if you want to, but having clear language from the beginning, in all paperwork, is better. Just tighten up what you say the client gets for their money.</p>

<p>This question actually comes up quite a bit. Another thing you can do is to tell the client that all images considered not up to standard are deleted.</p>