t2i v. 7d - IQ only

[steve_wagner1]

<p>Operated by an experienced professional, what does the t2i lack, if anything - frame rate aside and out of the equation - that would make one unable to create photographs with equal image quality to the 7d - putting aside any thoughts on whether either is in fact a "professional" camera- given that the sensors are for all intents and purposes identical (according to DxOMark). This presupposes same lens, same settings, same same variables, everything else being the same except for the camera bodies.<br /> <br /> My interest is not in "the t2i won't hold up as well in the rain, it's smaller, it doesn't feel as solid, etc." Strictly resulting image quality and how things like af, metering modes, etc. affect IQ. Only difference I see is top shutter, which may affect whether you get frozen movement, but doesn't affect IQ per se - color fidelity, tonal quality, etc.<br /> <br />It's not a question of how intangibles like feel and handling may affect capture, just the quality of the image produced by each. I just had everything stolen and am forced to move back from a full frame to a crop body for the time being, and would rather put the extra $700 into something else for the intervening period until I get another full frame, but no if IQ is at stake.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>The differences in operating system between the two cameras is NOT trivial, and for me would easily make me go for the 7D over a "Rebel" body. It's not just a question of "IQ", however you might measure that.</p>

<p>When I am shooting APS-C, I regularly choose my 20D with fewer pixels in preference to my XTi with more, for just the reason of ease and sophistication of control. The "Rebels" are great for some kinds of shooting, but without the quick control and other features are less easy to use when you are not just 'snapshooting'. Stick a nice 50mm f/1.8 on a 'Rebel' and you have a great street camera with a short telephoto. Makes me feel like Henri Cartier-Bresson. When I want to feel more like Ansel Adams, I shoot with the 5D and the 20D and use our famous "Ozone" System. ;)</p>

<p>By the way, while you're waiting, why not get a used 5D- then you won't feel so deprived, if that is your mindset any how. After all, the equipment you had stolen was <em>used</em>. If you've been shooting one of the "full-framed" cameras, you'd miss those controls on the Rebel</p>

[steve_wagner1]

<p>As I said, I'm not interested in ease or sophistication of control or other intangibles, only final image quality. All other factors being equal is there any difference? Thanks</p>

[bobatkins]

<p>It lacks nothing. Shoot RAW, get the exposure and focus right and you won't be able to tell the difference between the two images.</p>

[scott_ferris]

<p>You said it yourself, there is no difference in sensors, effectively, so given the parameters you set out, same lens etc, there will be no difference in IQ. It is like saying I have a Leica film body and a Canonette, if I use the same film and same lens which takes the better pictures.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>You're welcome, I'm sure.<br>

The control system is not an "intangible". But if you think it is, why do you ask since you have already taken the only thing you will concern yourself with and concluded that</p>

<blockquote>

<p>given that the sensors are for all intents and purposes identical</p>

</blockquote>

<p>On that level, there can only be the answer given by Bob.</p>

[steve_wagner1]

<p>Thanks guys, the t2i would be a temporary measure and I can think of a lot of other things to do with $700. Will be using a 10-22 and 70-200f4 on it for the time being and am feeling relatively comfortable that I will still be able to achieve quality, archival results. Will have to wait on getting my full kit back to its former glory. Damn Costa Rican bus stations!</p>

<p>Wasn't trying to be snarky JDM, I asked the question to make sure I wasn't missing anything - i.e. the sensors are basically the same but the 7d has better processing algorithms and therefore lower noise, better color, etc. As far as controls, I'm on my sixth Canon DSLR model and know them pretty well, and I don't see anything lacking on the t2i that worries me. I appreciate your input though, and didn't mean to come off as snarky. Thanks.</p>

[nathangardner]

<p>The 7D does have <strong>DUAL</strong> Digic IV processors compared to the single Digic IV of the T2i, so it will probably handle noise better at high ISO's.</p>

[mbkissel]

<p>Brett, my wife uses the T2i as I've mentioned to you in another thread. I primarily use the 7D. When I'm reviewing photo sets, I often have a hard time distinguishing hers from mine unless I look at the file names. Go for the T2i, if you like the smaller format cameras; it's a really excellent product.</p>

[faysal]

<p>5d classics are just a tad more than a t2i right now, and if you miss the FF so much you could always go back to that.</p>

[paul_russell1]

<p>The 7D has a few things that do make it worth the extra for some users:<br /> <br /> Very sophisiticated AF system, 19 AF points, all of which are the very accurate cross type<br /> (rebel T2i has 9 points, only the centre point is a cross point)<br /> <br /> The 7D has tweakable Ai Servo (canons name for tracking autofocus- your subject moves the camera refocuses, predictively for very fast moving subjects) which you can tailor to your shooting style.<br /> (rebel T2i has more basic tracking with no tweaks)<br /> <br /> The 7D has many more patterns and AF behaviours, With the T2i you can set a single point AF, the 7D can select zones, or spots, or spots with tracking.<br /> <br /> The 7D has up to double the frame rate of the T2i. More frames = more potential hits!<br /> <br /> The 7D has a 100% penta prism viefinder. Much clearer. More info. <br /> (t2i has a budget penta mirror design, adequate but basic)<br /> <br /> The 7D has better handling with quick control dial on the rear, really speeds things up in any of the manual or semi-manual modes.<br /> <br /> If you are shooting nature and want the best results, the 7D makes it a hell of a lot easier. You need to understand the camera, and perhaps use canons online videos to tune the AF (easier than it sounds) but it makes a huge difference to your hit rate.<br /> <br /> The T2i is a fine camera. Those who say the 7D is overpriced in comparison haven't used a 7D. Or at least properly.<br /> <br /> If you like portraiture the 7D also has off camera flash control. The only EOS to do so without additional accessories (although you would need a canon flashgun)<br /> <br /> If you want a camera that works out the box, and high speed isn't of paramount concern, then the T2i will save you a bit of money and do a great job.<br>

If you are shooting still life or landscape get a T2i.<br /> If you like a bit of speed in your shots then the 7D wins hands down.<br>

I've not even got onto build quality or any other 'intangable' things like that. Although I would argue if its tactile, in your hand and going to affect your operation and or your hit rate then its not intangable.<br>

A film EOS 300 and a film EOS 1V have exactly the same 'sensor' with things like lenses and emulsions consistent. Canon still seemed to have a market for the 1Vs. Even if the 7D and T2i sensor is identical, the rest of the cameras are not, and are not targeted as such. If you need the performance of the 7D you'll find the cash. If you don't, and even if you don't and have the cash, then buy the T2i if that will do the job. For many and most it will. <br>

Will it affect the image on paper or on screen? Only if you shoot fast subjects and count getting the image rather than not getting it as being a difference.</p>

[steve_wagner1]

<p>Thanks for the detailed response Paul. These are things to consider.</p>

[steve_wagner1]

<p>Thanks for the detailed response Paul. The AF in particular is something to consider. I was trying to determine if the T2i AF is likely worse, equal, or better than the 5d2, which I found to be terrible. I'm assuming the t2i is equal or worse in this regard.</p>

[g dan mitchell]

<p>Over the years, Canon's cropped sensors with the same photosite density have produced essentially indistinguishable image quality, whether the camera was in the (former) "rebel" series or the (former) X0D series. The 8MP XT could produce the same IQ as the 8MP 20D/30D and so forth under the circumstances you describe.</p>

[Stock-Photos]

<p>I have the 5D classic and the 7D. I find the "noise" or "noise reduction artifacts" on the 7D to be more annoying than the 5D.</p>

<p>Therefore Brett, I second the suggestion of a 5D used over a T2i.</p>

[paul_russell1]

<p>"I have the 5D classic and the 7D. I find the "noise" or "noise reduction artifacts" on the 7D to be more annoying than the 5D."</p>

<p>Can you link to these artefacts? In the 6 months I've ran my 7D i've yet to find these. I did spend a little time setting up my in-camera profiles and my ACR settings at the start. Unless I shoot above 1600 I don't see any noise at all at normal viewing distances. At 3200 the noise is similar in texture and incidence to what I used to get from ISO 200 slide film, i.e. perfectly useable.</p>

[yakim_peled1]

 

<p >IQ is important but other factors are no less important, at least AFAIAC. I'd never buy a 550D just because it has the same IQ as my 7D. Ergonomics, AF, extra features, BQ etc. are no less important for me as IQ. I'd might be tempted to save the extra cash only if I was sure that it will mostly be used on tripod and mostly in manual focus mode. As 99% of my shots are hand-held and in AF mode, the 550D was never a candidate for me. It's just not comfortable to shoot and operate as XXD/7D bodies and lack other things I consider critical.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >But YMMV of course. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Happy shooting,</p>

<p >Yakim. </p>

<p > </p>

[g dan mitchell]

<p>But the OP was very specific that he was NOT comparing the non-IQ factors in this case. It is odd that people keep going back to all of the factors that he asked us not to consider...</p>

[mark_stevens9]

<p>Sorry to hear about you getting ripped off...that's so frustrating. If you are going to use a crop sensor camera as an experienced photographer, would you be happy with the features of consumer camera? You could even buy a 50D until you get another FF. Then you would have a nice quality backup body.</p>

[paul_russell1]

<blockquote>

<p><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=3989561">G Dan Mitchell</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"><img title="Frequent poster" src="http://static.photo.net/v3graphics/member-status-icons/1roll.gif" alt="" /></a>, Aug 09, 2010; 05:45 p.m.</p>

</blockquote>

 

<blockquote>

<p>But the OP was very specific that he was NOT comparing the non-IQ factors in this case. It is odd that people keep going back to all of the factors that he asked us not to consider...</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>My reply mentioned AF amongst other things.<br>

Getting the shot in focus and at the right moment might not have anything at all to do with the sensor but has everything to do with AF sophistication and camera speed.<br>

The quality of the images you end up with has more contributing factors than image sensor alone. That is the point people are making. User experience cannot be undermined as one component affecting the quality of the images you will get.<br>

I was happy with my rebel XTi, and had the T2i been out when I was replacing it I would probably have bought that instead of the 7D. It wasn't so I bought the 7D, and I have seen an improvement in my pictures in every way, not simply and purely resolution. When I shoot speedway I get far more keepers. I rather suspect that as the AF system on the T2i is the same as on the XTi that I would have got more resolution and that would have been it.<br>

If speed isn't an issue, as I said in my original answer, get a T2i. <br>

A crap sensor will let any camera down. A good sensor isn't enough on it's own to make your photos great.</p>