Wondering what I should have done in this situation?

[silent_sky]

<p>I just shot my first wedding, it was for my friend's sister and was last minute. I was up front with them about my experience (zero in wedding photography) but they really wanted me and I felt very flattered that they had such faith in me (I have a bachelor's degree in art but have not pursued photography seriously until recently).<br>

It was absolutely beautiful, but there were a couple people there photographing as well; one person even stayed while I was doing the wedding party formal pics and took pictures of all the shots I set up! This was very distracting to the wedding party as there were times when they weren't sure who to look at. At another point I had to ask the DJ at the reception to remind people not to use their flash. One person wound up being in a few of my shots (grr) because he would sneak in trying to get a pic. <br>

I was rather frustrated by the whole thing, but I didn't say anything to anyone because I didn't know what (if anything) I should do. I'm hoping to establish myself over time as I gain experience and knowledge, and I want to act professionally from the get-go. My friend wasn't aware that these people would be there-let alone taking pics, but was at a loss about what to do too. I understand people want to get pictures, but potentially ruining the pictures of the person who was hired seems disrespectful all around. <br>

My friend did receive compliments about my professionalism and how I seemed to be "in the right place at the right time". She said I did a great job; I said, wait until you see the pics before you decide that! :)<br>

To all you seasoned pros out there, what do/would you do in this situation? I know many contracts require that the photographer hired be the only one taking pictures, but how do you enforce it (if you do) without ruffling too many feathers? Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you!</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Maria--I'm sure others will post but in the meantime you might want to do a search. This questions gets asked from time to time, although yours has a slight twist, since you were shooting your first wedding. Here is one.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00W7jp">http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00W7jp</a></p>

<p>Just use the phrase "wedding guests taking pictures" or something similar. There are threads about both guests being a nuisance at formals and during ceremonies.</p>

<p>For the formals, I simply let people have their turn before me for each group, when I haven't fine tuned the set ups yet. Then I demand that no one shoot while I am. You also have to take command when doing the groups.</p>

[colleendonovan]

<p>Why in the world would you have the DJ 'remind' people to not use flash at the reception? Are you kidding? Here's the thing - it's not your day and it isn't about you. Yes - people shooting over your shoulder are annoying, but that's part of being a professional. You do your job no matter what anyone else is doing. <br>

I don't know of any contracts that state that the hired photographer be the only one taking pictures. The only PROFESSIONAL taking pictures, maybe. But - that brings us back to the first point. You're the professional. Deal with it and let everyone enjoy the day.</p>

[mart_n_t]

<p>Colleen, I see your point and to some extent I agree, but if I understood correctly the OP is not asking for too much. A professional needs some "space" to work and do his/her thing. I, as a guest, look very much after the hired professional and try not to get in his way, particularly in the group pictures, when the subjects don't know which camera to look at. The photographer has to be flexible and adapt, yes, but also assertive at some points about he accomplishing a task. Unlike the guests, he is not there to go home happy that he got the pictures for free (many guests always think that they'll have to pay to get THAT picture, so they sneak in and take advantage), but to make pictures for the B&G. That sets the professional appart from guests, and should be let alone when working.</p>

[silent_sky]

<p>Nadine- thank you, I tried searching but I didn't have the right terms.<br>

Colleen- I didn't want them to not be able to take pictures for the whole reception, I just did not want it to interfere with my equipment/shots. There was not a lot of room to work with in the reception, and a lot of highly reflective surfaces but not a ton of light. I had a hard enough time fighting my flash at times, which I think I did pretty well with avoiding flash reflections in the background- I didn't want my pictures to be compromised (for the bride/groom's sake as well as my friend) while I was shooting. <br>

Martin- thank you as well.<br>

I understand that I am the professional and as such I need to be the one "in control", but seeing as it was my first wedding, I was looking for tips on how to do that without ruffling a lot of feathers since as it was pointed out, it is NOT my day, and I am professional enough to know that it is NOT a good idea to make a scene at someone else's wedding. Part of what bothered me was that the ones that were really in the way were not your simple P&S guests- they were working with their own DSLRs. The one at the reception was dogging my steps like he was a professional or a second pro photographer. I am not concerned about my bottom line here, just good pictures and keeping my conduct professional. <br>

For future comments: I am not looking for criticism, I am looking for help. I fully admit that I do not have the experience that you do. I am seeking to learn and grow, and if I have commited some sort of faux pas, I am more than happy to have people let me know as long as we can remain adult about it. </p>

[Jerry_]

<p>Next weddidng, find the largest usher or Groomsman. Let him be your *go-between* in crowd control if that seems to be needed. Once you have your group shots with the *go-between* -- promise him a cold beer for helping out.</p>

<p>With the advent of cell phone cameras and a multitude of digital camera users, you are fighting a lost cause during the reception. Folks will do as they please, not caring you are trying to do your job as the paid photographer. [Wait until you get a wedding with the cake in a tight corner, and the bride-and-groom have their backs to you for the cake cutting...you have to be prepared for anything and everything at a wedding.]</p>

<p> </p>

[silent_sky]

<p>Nadine, I just read through that link you posted and wanted to say thank you again! It provided me with a lot of perspective.</p>

<p> </p>

[victoria_sprung]

<p>I had a Bride be very proactive and tell a guest to let us work without getting into our shots. She knew he'd want to take photos, and she just wanted to make sure that he didn't jump out into the frame when myself and the 2nd Photographer were shooting. Of course, I'm never shocked anymore, people will even jump out into the middle of the aisle during the ceremony. They are definitely not thinking about what the Photographer sees, they are thinking about getting a photo of their loved one walking down the aisle.<br>

If it gets to a point where it goes beyond annoyance, and into an area where a guest is causing you to miss shots, you might want to briefly counsel with the guests who have been shadowing you all day. Explain to them that you want to get the best possible shots for the Bride and Groom, and ask them to help you do that by being unobtrusive with their own Photography.</p>

[rt_jones]

<p><strong><em>I am not looking for criticism, I am looking for help.</em></strong></p>

<p>Nix the DJ announcement. Become vocal and assert some control - politely of course. During staged shots (things you orchestrate), if you see somebody standing nearby and poised to shoot tell them to wait until you give the all clear. I shoot with one guy who uses optical slave flashes during some of the indoor formals just for this purpose. After a few guests trigger his strobes it's funny looking at their expressions and they seem to stop. :)</p>

<p>Other shots throughout the day are another story. You are just going to have to tolerate them and work out an agreement with the major violators one on one. These types tend to rear their heads early.</p>

<p>You might not be able to outwit a guest but you can certainly outlast them.</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p>Colleen has given you the right information. If you would like to become a professional I would suggest that you serve an apprenticeship with an established pro for at least one wedding season. Other guests taking their shots with flash should not interfere with you taking your images at the reception. Handling guests with cameras while you are doing the posed formals can become problematic and you can find several prior threads on the topic. You might also want to start reading all the threads on first weddings to see the typical issues that unprepared shooters have faced.</p>

[laurel_jensen]

<p>Maria - my contract states that 45 minutes be blocked out for formal photography without other photographers around and that is worked into the schedule by the B&G and wedding planner if there is one. That can happen before or after the ceremony, or even split up before and after.<br>

The last 8 hour wedding I shot, at the request of the B&G, included 45 minutes pre-ceremony where I shot them and their wedding party in a park across the street from the venue and then about 20 minutes right after the ceremony where we did family shots. There was a "cocktail" hour before and after the ceremony so the rest of the guests were busy during the shoots.<br>

I was fortunate that the B&G took the recommendation seriously and planned for it. It made the day go smoothly and they got the photos they wanted - my job was so much easier than if I had to compete with others to get the formals.<br>

As for the rest of the day, the guests were all so polite and stayed out of my way - and I theirs. There was lots of picture taking but we didn't overlap and that was more about me waiting my turn then trying to control the situation.<br>

Not all weddings are this polite so it was the combination of the B&G's attitude (we had an understanding before hand) and my attention to fading in and out of the activities so others could enjoy their time without me being in the way while also getting the shots I needed (get in and get out is my motto). I've been complimented for that style so it's working for me.</p>

[silent_sky]

<p>Thank you all very much for your input! I now have a much better understanding of what I should be doing in this situation. I will mention that while I say this is my first wedding (I do hope to do more in the future) that the future is a bit down the road. I am not advertising myself as a wedding photographer at this time and will not be until I get more experience. I will definitely see about apprenticing with a pro and getting lots of practice!</p>

[rosina_dibello]

<p>I would recommend that you might consider working for another professional wedding photographer before making the plundge youself. You can learn a lot like how to get control and keep it in a professional way. How not to let guests interfere with your work. You can also learn to "stiff arm" effectively guests running up to take the shot that you've set up. (ha ha) For ex. If I just set up a bride and groom in front of the cake - my assistant is clearing the way of guests that will be in the way. </p>

 

[rt_jones]

<p><strong><em>You can learn a lot like how to get control and keep it in a professional way. </em></strong><br>

How can mentoring with a pro possibly help you with the task of herding guests? There is no "silver bullet" secret or right way to do it... you just need to "do it". <br>

Some days you win... other days you lose.</p>

[jimmckinnon]

<blockquote>

<p> I am not looking for criticism, I am looking for help.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I find the two are usually interchangeable. </p>

[buffdr_rasouliyan]

<p>At first I always go with the flow. During the formals I setup the shot and if I feel someone is trying to shoot over me, I look back and say go for it. I then tell them the pictures won't look right if they are looking at my camera while your trying to shoot. When they shoot 2 quick shots, I then ask the bride and groom to lOOK at me now so we can take a good picture. Believe it or not most of the people get the hint and stop till I'm finish. I do tell them before I change poses, I will move so someone else can take the same shot. Good luck v/r Buffdr</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p><em><strong>You can learn a lot like how to get control and keep it in a professional way. </strong></em><br /><em>How can mentoring with a pro possibly help you with the task of herding guests? There is no "silver bullet" secret or right way to do it... you just need to "do it". </em><em>Some days you win... other days you lose. -RT</em><br /><em></em><br />Having an open mind and working with an experienced pro can teach you a wealth of things, including some valuable people skills such as crowd control during the formals. If every newcomer did an apprenticeship over at least one season, it would likely answer over half of all the first wedding questions here on the forum.</p>

[William Michael]

<p><em>"</em><strong><em>For future comments: I am not looking for criticism</em></strong><strong><em>, I am looking for help.</em></strong><em> I fully admit that I do not have the experience that you do. I am seeking to learn and grow, and if I have commited some sort of faux pas, I am more than happy to have people let me know as long as we can remain adult about it."</em></p>

<p>It is apparent that you are inexperienced. You stated that. You asked for seasoned Pros to advise what they would do in the same situation. The responses I read are all both adult and with a view for your growth and learning. (Unless something has been deleted).</p>

<p>So what is it that you find “not adult”? The that it was silly to ask the DJ to tell the guests to shoot using their Flashes ? ? ? The suggestion to work with a Pro to get more experience? ??</p>

<p>It seems to me, counterproductive to ask for help and then put strict caveats on the responses such that naught is allowed to highlight: errors; omissions or blunders . . .</p>

<p>WW</p>

[fuccisphotos]

<p>William, I think the OP when saying "not adult" was referring to the "Are you kidding me?" comment. Some people on this forum handle people with kind helpful constructive kid gloves on (i.e. Nadine, thank you!) , and others are more blunt. Some can be even more than blunt unfortunately. ALL of the answers are usually meant to be helpful in one way or another, the delivery can just be VERY different from poster to poster. So don't take the tone of what someone says too hard. The group tends to just get tired of answering the same types of questions over and over. I was (and often still am) a bad offender when it comes to this. But try to remember to search the threads first. If you don't find something, in your post acknowledge that you searched past posts so people know you at least tried first. </p>

<blockquote>

<p><strong ><em >You can learn a lot like how to get control and keep it in a professional way. </em></strong><br />How can mentoring with a pro possibly help you with the task of herding guests? There is no "silver bullet" secret or right way to do it... you just need to "do it". <br />Some days you win... other days you lose.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Completely agree with David on this one. You really CAN learn a great deal watching how pros have been doing this a while handle the situation. It's similar to reading the posts on this forum, only MUCH better. To think that someone who is just coming into doing this as their first wedding can know it all, even from just reading books or reading this forum, is misguided. There's a reason why even pros continue to take workshops, etc. Do I think you HAVE to do a full on apprenticeship for over a year before you shoot a wedding solo for the first time, no. Do I think it would be helpful, YES! Myself, I'm trying to do a bit of a blend. Shoot smaller weddings solo, and when I'm not booked for those, 2nd shoot for people who have been in the biz and have AMAZING skill sets. And when I say amazing skill sets, I don't just mean at using their camera. I'm talking people skills, artistic skills, situational lighting skills (as a newbie would you ever think to bounce light off a rather large guest who is wearing a white shirt when the ceilings are so high you can't bounce the light or the walls are a darker color? I sure wouldn't have, but the pro I second shot for taught me that while on a job, and it worked like a charm). Also, when I'm doing detail shots, etc, my first inclination was to tell a guest nicely to get out of the shot. The pro noticed this and pointed out to me that often times it's better to just let that person be in the background (assuming we are talking larger apertures) because it adds to the environment, makes it more personal, and you don't make the guest feel bad in the process for being in your shot. <br>

Taking what you learn from the pros though and using it in the field is ALSO a good learning experience. If you shadow someone who has a TOTALLY different personality than you and their tactics are like NOTHING you would ever be willing to do yourself, find a new mentor. It needs to be a person that you feel you could see yourself using some of their techniques. I'm not saying you then have to go out and do EXACTLY as they do, you put your own style into it. As the pro I was working with said, you are the only you out there. No one else is going to do what you do EXACTLY the same way. <br>

Hope that helps!</p>

<p>-Vail</p>

[frank_skomial]

<p>If flash photography was not allowed there, and yet guests were shooting flash anyhow, only then it would be appropriate to announce "no flash photography". </p>

[simon_crofts]

<p>Rather than regard other people's flashes at the reception as irritating, look at it as a positive - if you're lucky enough to sync your shutter with someone else's flash, it can look great in the photos, especially if the other person appears in the picture. At the very least you're being given a gratuitous off-camera flash. Of course, you have no exposure control over their flash so there's a risk of it blowing out, and the results can be a bit random, but when it works, it can work well.</p>

<p>Rather than trying to stop people using their flashes, you could be encouraging it, at the reception anyway!</p>

<p><img src="http://www.croftsphoto.com/P194.jpg" alt="" /></p>

[picturesque]

<p>Maria--Vail gave you a very good idea of how things 'go down' on these forums. :^) You have not committed a 'faux pas'. You just take the slightly salty with the sweet, that's all. Look beyond, and you will learn a lot.</p>

[silent_sky]

<p>Thank you all so much! I apologize if I came off as ungrateful- it just bothered me to read a (imo) snarky response when I had tried to make it clear that I was not experienced. It seemed in rather poor taste and it undermined the consensus that someone who is inexperienced should be seeking help/training/etc from more experienced professionals. I haven't sought out a pro photographer yet for this very reason- I do not want to be laughed at for my inexperience. I understand what I did was a mistake (probably less of one than I could have made under the circumstances, but one nonetheless) and I truly have learned a lot from this thread! I also apologize for not getting my search terms right and bothering you all with a question that seems to be asked frequently. I should have known better than to post drowsy (I had been up for 42 hours at that point) but I just wanted to get it off my chest and get some constructive advice. I really had no plans to get into wedding photography so fast. </p>

<p>Thank you very much Vail and Nadine for breaking things down for me- I will remember what you have said and try to develop that thicker skin!</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Maria--here is another very recent thread about Uncle Bobs. You may want to scroll through the Wedding Photography Approaches subcategory.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00WgW5">http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00WgW5</a></p>

<p>It is becoming a very real and growing problem. My general mode of operation is--if people do not affect the performance of my job, I don't do anything. If they affect my performance, I do something--subtle and polite at first, but if I need to be assertive, I will.</p>

[William Michael]

<p><em >Maria, I read Vail's response and wrote the following reply about 10 hours ago - but I was travelling and moved out of uplink range so I could not post what I wrote – so I saved it.</em><br>

<em > </em><br>

<em >Since then Nadine has commented and you too have responded. Ordinarily, I would not post anything now as we have moved on: but I think l this time it might be worthwhile so to do as you might gain from reading it as I touch on points other than growing a thick skin. . . Here is what I wrote and attempted to post immediately after Vail’s comment: </em><br>

<strong ><em > </em></strong><br>

<strong ><em > </em></strong><br>

<strong ><em >"I think the OP when saying "not adult" was referring to the "Are you kidding me?" comment."</em></strong><br>

<br>

Ah! <br>

OK – thanks. I copy that. I just re read that bit - I did not notice it on my first read. <br>

You could work in a lawyer’s office – attention to detail in the written word. . . I need to slow down on the double shot coffees in the morning time . . .<br>

<br>

***<br>

<br>

Irrespective of any comment being blunt or more than blunt, or even if it elitist, self serving or a personal attack, and even if many get tired of answering the same questions - it is my view and my advice to those posting questions (especially those who are new and inexperienced) is to just pick out the facts as presented and learn from those bits – in the case in question, the fact to draw out is that: <em >it was not necessary (or good practice) to ask the DJ to tell the guests to stop using Flash . . . </em><br>

<br>

A lesson to learn apropos “being Adult” (in Business) is “not to bite” . . . On a forum it is only words . . . And I have received worse – I recall something like “the image has no artistic merit whatsoever and I would not even show it to the client . . .” and I was only asking how would you Photoshop this? . . . and the Client chose the image and as one she treasured . . . <br>

<br>

My point is “Sticks and stones will break my bones . . .<br>

<br>

Now I do agree that any community should have a modicum of decorum and this Wedding Forum is no exception, but, my point to the OP still holds and it is my advice to her in response to her request for assistance: “<em>I am seeking to learn and grow” . . . </em> <em >it is counterproductive to respond or augment a request for assistance with any caveats, whatsoever.</em><br>

<br>

If I ask: “What do you think?” – I am asking – <strong ><em >exactly that</em></strong>. <br>

<br>

I can learn a lot from unfettered answers and by me keeping a still tongue in my head: and<strong><em> not interrupting the respondents</em></strong>. <br>

<br>

But rather, if <strong><em>I draw more comments out</em></strong> - I learn much, much more on a multiplicity of levels over a range of topics and get more knowledge and insights and those are not limited to answering only the question, which I originally asked.<br>

<br>

WW <br>

<em > </em></p>