2nd Shooter, over shoulder shooting question

[cardens]

<p>I had a second shooter work with me for a wedding this past saturday. It was this first time we worked together. The only images she did 100 percent on her own was the groomsmen. They came out well which I am happy about.<br>

However later on when I was shooting the bride and groom, she was taken pretty much identical shots as mine. Of course my poses and the locations I chose. I said she can use images she took for her facebook and maybe blog, but my watermark will be on them and she can edit them how she wishes. However she lives in the same area as me and I am kind of not liking the idea she will have the same couple and same location and posing I use and she will be taking credit for them as her pictures. I dont mind her using the images she took on her own at all. But the ones I was "directing" not so much. <br>

Any advice and input would be great. thank you!</p>

[theresa_skutt]

<p>As both a primary and a 2nd shooter, I agree with you. Just have that same conversation with her, and I'm sure she'll understand. When I take something the primary is setting up, I shoot from a very different angle, and in-between candids. I don't take credit for things I didn't pose.</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p>This problem has surfaced several times on the forum on both sides of the issue. Suggest that you do a search on "second shooter". Your pre-shooting verbal agreement as outlined above appears to have been pretty vague.</p>

[cardens]

<p>in the contract she signed it says all images are sole property of my company. So if I wanted to I could say she cant use any of them. But I just dont feel good about that.<br>

Thanks Theresa glad I am not alone on this.</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p>Although you are under the impression that you could prevent any use of the images, as you read the other threads you'll learn that it isn't that simple.........yes, you're not alone in this, which is why the topic comes up so frequently.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>IMHO, you are being too nice. In this day, you can't be, unfortunately. Either review what she has shot and tell her exactly which ones she can use herself, or give firm instructions on what she is to shoot, and make sure she isn't following you around.</p>

[cardens]

<p>Very true David.<br>

Nadine, thanks for your opinion. I think you are probably right. I have the memory cards she used to shoot with. I am thinking to not include any of the images that were my idea with the bride and groom. PLus I am watermarking everyone. <br>

This is a lesson learned for me. The second shooter that usually works with me never posed this problem as they are a student, looking for the money and to have a fun experience on the weekend.</p>

[john_h.1]

<p>Having a written contract and then a verbal agreement outside of it muddied the waters which is why such things are not recommended. For both legal and personal reasons. At this point, you should have a discussion directly with your second shooter about your concerns. The terms of your contract may restrict outside "parol" terms but we can't tell here.</p>

<p>As to the shooter working for you, its unclear why you allowed them to shoot over your shoulder. Tightening up your contract and exercising authority during the shoot with you hired help are matters to attend to in the future.</p>

[cardens]

<p>It was right before we left, I took the couple outside the reception for some cool outdoor shots, since we were in a city type setting. She followed us out and to be honest, I knew she was there, but didnt really notice her snapping away. This is def a learning lesson for me. I appreciate everyones feedback.</p>

[savagesax]

I'd be a bit strict regarding your contract.

 

2 friends of mine ran into a problem. The lady has a studio and the guy was working for her. Long story short the guy left and used the images he took at her studio and opened his own studio. Some of the same photo's are being displayed in both studios and also on the internet. The 2 studios are within 5 miles from each other, so when people are shopping around they see some of the same images in album books and wall prints, it's often a tense moment for the 2 studios.

 

When the second shooter is duplicating the photos you are taking is pretty much a waste. Have the person use a different lens and create different shots, such as people laughing or something, close-ups of the flowers, the kids goofing off, other types of fun shots, outside of the formals your are taking.

 

To avoid photographers using your images, even though you have a contract, give them YOUR compact flash cards, don't let them use their own cards. This pretty much solves any issues, because you get the cards back at the end of the job and needless to say they can't copy the cards to there computer or something. The only exception to this is if the photographer has one of those expensive dual card slot cameras.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p>Veronica, I hope you took the time to do a search on this and read some of the other threads. There's some interesting discussion about copyright laws and "work for hire" contracts, etc. As Bob states above, supplying and controlling the compact flash cards can solve problems much of the time but it's possible that a 2nd shooter can dump the card onto a portable storage unit or laptop.</p>

[theresa_skutt]

<p>You need to have a fair and clear understanding, not to mention a good professional working relationship. I've been lucky, in that I've never had or needed a contract. We both use common sense, and it has worked out. If you are clear in your expectations, and treat the person well, I don't know why you would ever have a problem. It's the same as going into a wedding knowing the bride & groom's expectations; you need to know ahead of time what your role is. (btw, not recommending the no-contract thing...I just got lucky, like I said)</p>

[senor_crocodrillo]

<p>I don't understand. Why you would allow someone to use the images they shot, but only with your watermark on them? How can she take credit for them if your watermark is on them? Why even bother giving them to her? If it were me, I'd either let her use the pictures without the watermark, or not at all. Saying you're going to let her use them, does not, to me, imply that she gets them with a watermark. I agree with all the above posters that say you need to clearly communicate what your intentions & expectations are and stick with them, regardless of the contract.<br>

If you're going to have assistants and/or shooters working for you, you have to direct them. You're in charge. Usually, only those that you have a strong working relationship with can work on their own. If your employee is shooting over your shoulder, than you are wasting your money. She should be taking different pictures than you, all the time (even if it's only a slightly different angle that's not over your shoulder). You need to direct her to do this. Sometimes being a photographer means you have to be a manager too.<br>

When you are shooting the bride and groom, why not direct her to shoot from a different angle than yours? If you don't want her to use your location or poses, then either have her set up her own (I wouldn't advise this), or have her hold a light, reflector or watch your bag.</p>

[rt_jones]

<p><em><strong>"...I am kind of not liking the idea she will have the same couple and same location and posing I use and she will be taking credit for them as her pictures."</strong></em></p>

<p>How can she take credit if they have your watermark on them?<br>

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