Off-camera flash, radio triggers

[brendonmeyer]

<p>I've searched the forums and have a pretty good idea of what I may need, just need to double check before I order anything. I have a K10d, and the only flashes I have are older ones, an AF200S, and a Sunpak Auto 321. Are there radio triggers that work with these, or will I need to get the Wein safe syncs for each one? I was really only planning on using the Sunpak, since it swivels. But if I can use both all the better.</p>

<p>Also, people always say to test the flash with a multimeter, but nobody ever really says how. The AF200s has 3 contacts on the bottom, and the Sunpak only has one. Do you just put the lead on a contact and test fire the flash? Or will you get a reading from it just being turned on? I haven't picked up a meter yet, so just thought I'd ask in the meantime.</p>

<p>The Sunpak came with a Minolta X-370 my brother gave me. I've been looking at the CTR-301 triggers, and they mention something about Sony and Minolta having different hotshoes. If anyone can clarify that I'd appreciate it, or point me in the right direction. Thanks.</p>

[mountainvisions]

<p>Well pocket wizards tend to work with anything because they have ridic sync voltage capacity.</p>

<p>Skyports on the other hand have slightly more sync capacity than a modern DSLR.</p>

<p>if the CTR-301 are ebay type triggers, while these MIGHT (and could be) perfectly fine for messing around with, I'd really recommend something like the Skyport. these have near 100% reliability, are built well, and reasonably cost effective. Are they as good as Pocket Wizards? Probably not, they aren't weather proof, and from what I've seen don't have the range, but they are 100X better than the ebay triggers I've used or seen used.</p>

<p>That said, I used the ebay triggers for a while, and other than insanely short battery life, they actually worked pretty well, most of the time. The problem was I bought dozens of CR123 batteries over 2 years, and probably paid for a skyport receiver very slowly in lithium battery replacements.</p>

[jpo3136b]

<p>Cactus V4 and flashes used on all-manual. </p>

[personalphotos]

<p>I use Flash Waves that are available off <a href="http://www.amazon.com/FlashWave2-Wireless-Remote-Trigger-System/dp/B002X246BW/ref=sr_1_1/179-2540284-0332440?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1273760320&sr=8-1">Amazon here</a> and have worked them very hard for about 3 years. Never an issue. With older flashes, I would recommend something like a Wein Safe Sync. To check the trigger voltage, <a href="http://www.botzilla.com/photo/g1strobe.html">use this guide</a>. Flash Waves has said that they can handle up to 300 volts but I wouldn't trust that with any trigger system. Unlike older film cameras with mechanical contact points, these units are electronic and with repeated use, I think you are riskinng cooking the circuits.</p>

<p>So the Pentax 200 you have should be fine at under 10 volts. I had a Sunpack 322 was a cool unit but measured at over 400 volts with several tests. The Sony/Minolta shoe is very different than the rest of the photographic world and to use a 'standard' shoe flash or accessory would require an adapter like <a href="http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_npmv=3&_trksid=m570&_nkw=sony+flash+adapter">any of these</a> available fairly inexpensively.</p>

<p>But considering the need for additional parts (and possible risk) just to use the Sunpack, get a better flash that you can use without adapters. There are tons of cheap used flashes available that will do the job for you with less hassle.</p>

<p>If It was me, I'd get an AF280T Pentax flash that could be used in manual mode directly on camera when you need it and as a triggered flash for other uses.</p>

<p>I hear that the CTR-301 triggers are getting better than earlier Ebay triggers but for me, I just don't want to risk that they will fail and chose not to spend the money there. I probably fire my triggers 15,000 times a year and can't remember when they misfired in any way over 3 years. That being said, it's a good way to start at a lower price. If your paid work gets busy, then it's worth the investment to get the right stuff first and not waste the money on something that might be replaced in short order.</p>

[andrewg_ny]

<p>The Minolta X-370 appears to have a standard hotshoe. I believe only the autofocus & digital Sony/Konica-Minolta have <a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Konica_Minolta_Dynax_7D_hot_shoe.jpg">the strange non-standard shoe</a>. Maybe when they went TTL flash they did this?</p>

<p>My recollection is that Wein Safe-syncs aren't all that cheap, nearly $50 a pop? The Sunpak Auto 321 is cheap though. I'd look for a cheaper flash that doesn't require them; pretty much all the old Pentax-branded flashes are safe. For bounce/swivel, consider AF280T, for direct, the AF200T (similar to AF200S but has four manual power levels). For off-camera use, I'd think the more manual control the better (does Sunpack Auto 321 have manual power control?). Both can easily be found cheap; there are lots of third-party alternatives but I mention the Pentax-made units because I'm familiar with them, believe them to have safe voltage levels, etc.</p>

[trw]

<p>If you're using it off-camera with an umbrella adapter, bounce and swivel doesn't matter at all. If you're going to test the voltage, it's the difference between the centre contact and the contact in the indent between the hotshoe and flash body that matters.</p>

<p>I started out with Vivitar 2800's on auto-thyristor mode with cheap optical triggers tripped by a Canon 133a with two layers of unexposed but developed slide film over the lens (a cheap IR Pass filter), shooting 35mm and 6x6 colour negative film. It worked but there was no preview capability and a lot of guess work involved. </p>

<p>Shortly after I got my K10d I added a pair of used Sunpak flashes with manual power setting. They worked with better control, plus I could see the results right away and adjust if needed and experiment more. The optical trigger system continued to be reliable at short ranges.</p>

<p>Next I added an Opus brand radio trigger set. It is marketed as for use with Opus brand studio flashes in a studio setting. That is where it should stay. With my flashes and outside the studio, reliability was VERY poor. Even at shorter ranges than usual in a portrait studio (ie clamshell lighting a teacup poodle pup). There are very frequent unintended firings and failures to fire.</p>

<p>Next I purchased two sets of YN-16 triggers. They are much more reliable with the Sunpak flashes and have much greater range than the Opus. </p>

<p>A while later I purchased a pair of BF-160 from a sponsor of this site. They are "budget" class studio flashes with integrated reflector, modelling light, and 4 stop adjustable (in 1/3 increments except more between 1/1 and 1/2). Their power, size, and features are all between a hotshoe and a "pro" studio light. Pricewise though, they are LESS than a new manual-only hotshoe flash. Quality is good for a budget product, except the umbrella holder but a pair of binder clips solves this. I was having an issue with unintended firings and non-firings, but this may have been due to a low receiver battery. Unintended firings are less of an issue (so long as you're not looking directly at it) as the recycle time is very short. The optical sync is not disableable though, so bring a roll of electrical tape if there will be many flashes at your venue; It also seems to start getting tripped if you have the modelling light on too long.</p>

<p>Of course the BF-160 only work where there is AC power available; I have yet to try them on an inverter pack. I still keep all my old hotshoe flashes for background/fill etc or for use where there is no AC. This discussion only covers flashes and triggers though, not the miriad Lightstands, umbrellas, clamps, battery packs, diffusers, reflectors, backgrounds, etc that I've bought or improvised out of non-photography gear...</p>

[sfcole]

<p>I'm not sure why you would be worried about voltage if it's not sitting on the camera's shoe. My k20d will take any voltage via the pc port. Likewise, my old Vivitar 283 works well with PW triggers.<br>

I've tried the Wein (un)safe sync. The only thing that will sync is your ban account. Locally they go for $70 and are a total waste of money. Mine did not work, and the electronics inside are poorly constructed (I know because the front comes off easily and you can look inside...). Difficult to believe someone else hasn't come up with something cheaper and better.</p>

[andrewg_ny]

<p>I assume the concern about trigger voltage was that it might fry not just camera bodies but could fry radio transmitters as well.</p>

<p>Trent, how well did multiple auto-thyristor flashes work? I was imagining that since they don't know about each-other small differences in their firing times might cause inconsistent exposures where sometimes one is more powerful, sometimes the other.</p>

[mel_unruh]

<blockquote>

<p>My k20d will take any voltage via the pc port.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Scott, Are you sure about this? Is the PC port on the K20d an isolated circuit? I was under the impression that it had the same voltage considerations as a hot shoe. Where is this documented?</p>

<p>Mel</p>

<p> </p>

[sfcole]

<p>Mel,<br>

I've used both older (25+ year-old Japanese-made) Vivitar 283s, as well as studio monolights (cheap Chinese-made), and Alien Bees through the sync port. Never had a problem so far...</p>

<p>My assumption (mind you, just an assumption) has been that just about every modern flash lacks a pc port, so the port on the camera is designed for use with studio equipment in mind and is more robust. Maybe I've just gotten lucky. If anyone has fried a camera this way I'd like to hear about it.<br>

Scott</p>

[andrewg_ny]

<p>According to <a href="

video</a> from Pentax (at about 6:55), the PC port has circuitry to protect against higher voltages. Just how high, I don't know.</p>

[personalphotos]

<p>Pentax does not claim either in the manual or online anywhere that the K20D sync port is protected in any way. So without a direct confirmation of this, I wouldn't assume it is. As Andrew says, they have confirmed that the K-7's is protected and it was announced as an 'upgrade' when the camera was released.</p>

[andrewg_ny]

<p>Actually that video was for K20D, not K-7. </p>

<p>Pentax <em>could</em> have just included that piece of info in their spec sheet...but <em>Noooo</em>.</p>

[brendonmeyer]

<p>Cool, good info. I have a couple of umbrella stands, with CFL's. Just don't want to be confined to needing an outlet. I'm going to modify it and add a screwmount on top, as opposed to buying a dedicated flash mount.</p>

<p>Skyport's are definitely out of my range right now, just looking for something to learn with, and didn't want to fry anything. I already knew not to try either of them directly on the hotshoe. Hopefully by the time I need to change batteries I can just get the Skyports. I figure $30-40 is a good starting point to learn with.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the links. Especially the voltage testing one, didn't see it in the other threads. I never even noticed the contacts on the side of the flash before.</p>

[personalphotos]

<p>Thanks andrew and I had never seen that or seen anything published that the k20D was protected as well. Good to know.</p>

[jeremy_corbin]

<p>I've been using the Cactus V4 trigger with my SunPak Auto 2000DZ and the LumoPro LP120. I've had some decent success with this setup. I haven't empirically tested the trigger's range, but it's been adequate for the indoor shooting I've done. I say "decent success" because when I first started using this setup <a href="00VEXf">I noticed some radio interference with my photos</a> on the top of the frame. Originally, I had come to the conclusion that the Cactus was causing the interference since when I used the flashes without the trigger (direct hot-shoe) the interference was not present. I have since re-evaluated the situation to be that my *istDS hates things attached to it. I bought a hot-shoe sync cord and it gives me the same interference as the wireless! What this means is that I have to plan on cropping or planning out my shots carefully enough that I don't have too dark of a background (black is out, it makes it too obvious).... I hate cropping, and I hate limiting my options to fix mistakes. So it looks like I'll be investing in another body in order to avoid the interference. Not that I'm opposed to a used K10d or anything...I need a 2nd body for work anyway.</p>

<p>If I had the money, I'd have bought the PW set in the first place. It seems to me that they're considered the Holy Grail of wireless triggers, but for now, I'll probably buy another V4 receiver and call it until my needs <em>really</em> require the PW.</p>