Dark wedding venue in 3 months, please help me with my approach?

[brandonheath]

<p> </p>

 

<p>Hello Forum,<br>

I've just booked a wedding at a beautiful location in San Diego Ca. It’s called the Immaculata, and the inside is absolutely amazing. My worry is that from what I can tell from photos, it borders on being pretty dark. The equipment I will be wielding in this shoot is.<br>

Canon 40D and 50D<br>

Tamron 17-50mm 2.8<br>

Canon 50mm 1.4<br>

Canon 100mm 2.0<br>

Shooting Raw</p>

<p> Now my usual set up for ceremonies is 17-50mm on the 50D and 100mm on the 40D. I would like to stay below 1600 ISO whenever possible. If it ever comes down to going higher I do what I have to but I would rather not. So here are my questions.<br>

1) Should I replace my zoom for the 50 1.4? I fear that on the crops I won't be able to go wide enough to capture the "Grandeur" of the venue.<br>

2) If I do switch to the 1.4 should I shoot wide open? As you all know the DoF is paper thin and I hate having super sharp brides and fuzzy grooms. Should this take a back seat to proper exposure and low noise?<br>

3) When my 100mm in on the 40D a lot of times i cant get the shutter speed more then low 100s when I’m maxed on ISO (1600). I know there is the option to expand the ISO to 3200 but the ISO on the 40D is already way worse then my 50D. Is it time to buy a new body?<br>

4) What are your personal thoughts on ISO limits for the ceremony?<br>

If you would like to see the venue you can Google image search Immaculata San Diego. Any and all thoughts will help. Thank you all in advanced</p>

[richardsnow]

<p>I'm assuming this is the University of San Diego Immaculata Parish.</p>

<p>Here's a hint...a tripod will be your friend. Flash will most likely not be allowed.</p>

<p>For a "GRAND" shot of the church, shoot from the back on a tripod, with fairly long exposure...without knowing the exact time and lighting, I couldn't begin to suggest your settings.</p>

<p>Perhaps you could get permission from the church to shoot a Sunday Mass or Saturday Vigil for practice. Make sure you can shoot at the time the wedding is going to be so you can know the lighting. Try to shoot for the same length of time as the ceremony is planned to be...and give yourself an extra hour or so of practice shooting...chances are the ceremony will start late. Lighting in a church can drastically change in the manner of an hour. </p>

<p>One last thing... while you're at the church pray for similar weather on the day you shoot for practice and the day of the wedding...better yet, try to get a few practice sessions in under different types of weather.</p>

<p>Good luck<br>

RS</p>

[picturesque]

<p>1.) I don't think you should 'replace' the zoom, but have an option to change the lens. Remember that with the wider focal lengths you can use slower shutter speeds hand held. Plus, as Richard says, the tripod is your friend.</p>

<p>2.) Remember that one of the things that affects DOF is subject distance. If you are shooting from 30 feet away (down the aisle) with the 50mm f1.4, you have 6 feet DOF. Still focus carefully, but go to DOF Master and look at likely DOF ranges for the subject distances in question. Could be a very different story with closer subjects, or movement where you need to depend upon some DOF for a margin of error.</p>

<p>3.) I don't think so. I have a 40D and I wouldn't have a problem using it at ISO 3200 if I had to. However, I'd sooner use a tripod and 1/60th than go to ISO 3200 from ISO 1600. Make sure you aren't underexposing, which makes noise appear worse when you pull the exposure up in post.</p>

<p>4.) Use the ISOs needed that you have available, knowing how comfortable you feel about the results. Again, I'd rather go tripod than up ISO, given I still can use 1/60th or thereabouts.</p>

[scottyt]

<p>When I read the topic, I thought it was an interesting place for a pilot to be asking questions.<br>

;-)</p>

[William Michael]

<p><strong><em>“Usual set up for ceremonies is 17-50mm on the 50D and 100mm on the 40D.” </em></strong></p>

<p>1) <em>Should I replace my zoom for the 50 1.4? I fear that on the crops I won't be able to go wide enough to capture the "Grandeur" of the venue.</em><br />– No not “replace” but have handy – the 50/1.4 fits in my Jacket pocket, easily. <br />

<p><br />2) <em>If I do switch to the 1.4 should I shoot wide open? </em><br />– Generally No. The 50F/1.4 is a great F/2 lens IMO, but useable at F/1.8, if necessary: <a href="../photo/10934234&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/10934234&size=lg</a> It is likely you would not notice as much edge loss using it on your APS-C body.</p>

<p><em>The DoF is paper thin and I hate having super sharp brides and fuzzy grooms. Should this take a back seat to proper exposure and low noise?- </em>Generally, Yes – At any high ISO PROPER exposure is CRITICAL.</p>

<p>If you are talking REALLY low EV and pushing the boundaries - you also need to know that F/1.4 with a 50mm lens on a APS-C camera – shooting Landscape at 20 to 25 ft you will get a wide shot of the Wedding Party, on the oblique, with about 4ft DoF and that will just nail the B&G and can make a pleasing image, this is a bit closer than 25ft and at F/2 – I am sure you will get the idea: <a href="../photo/9567945&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/9567945&size=lg</a></p>

<p>On the other hand if you go for a tight half shot of just one person, for example, you will be playing with fire at F/1.6: <a href="../photo/9567754&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/9567754&size=lg</a></p>

<p>But there’s more to the Av boundaries:</p>

<p>F/3.2 is about the Av limit for a tight Dual Profile: <a href="../photo/9567944&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/9567944&size=lg</a></p>

<br />And you need about F/8 for a tight Half Shot – Groom in tight behind Bride – to give you about 24” DoF . . . so you can pull equivalent of those last two shots I described, with your F/2.8 zoom lens.<br />

<p><br /><em>3) When my 100mm in on the 40D a lot of times i cant get the shutter speed more then low 100s when I’m maxed on ISO (1600). I know there is the option to expand the ISO to 3200 but the ISO on the 40D is already way worse then my 50D. Is it time to buy a new body?</em><br />Dunno, how big are the prints the clients want? I can push my 20D to ISO3200 if I do not crib on the exposure and that holds for a 15” wide print: <a href="../photo/10738830&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/10738830&size=lg</a></p>

<p>(I did crib about 1½ stops of ISO using a 20D in those monotone images above)</p>

<p>Tripods have been mentioned often - I like tripods, but my monopod is my one of my best inanimate friends.</p>

<br /><br /><em>4) What are your personal thoughts on ISO limits for the ceremony</em><br>

– As much as it takes – you have to weigh the worst of all the evils which present themselves, when shooting in really low light.<br>

IMO better to have a sharp (i.e. in focus) and correctly exposed image with a little residual motion blur for example at the arms: <a href="../photo/9567764&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/9567764&size=lg</a><br>

or head: <a href="../photo/10934230&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/10934230&size=lg</a><br>

than a low ISO “noiseless” image with major Subject Motion Blur.<br>

<strong><em>That’s why I have my limits of Tv for the Ceremony (actually for any Event) and then prioritize Av next: and not a limit on ISO.</em></strong><br>

My Tv Limits depend upon:<br>

>the Stage of the Ceremony / condition of the Subjects, (eg: “nervous standing” or >“composed kneeling / sitting”<br>

>the Shooting Distance<br>

>the Aspect of the Subject to the Camera<br>

>the FL of the Lens<br>

>the Camera<br>

>whether Tripod, Monopod or HH.<br>

 

<p>I constantly test my limits and whilst I am very certain what I can pull hand held with any particular lens & camera combination - at any event it is most important to understand what the Subject, the Shooting Distance, the FL of the lens and <strong><em>the purpose and size of the final product</em></strong> will allow me to pull.</p>

<br>

My portfolio has many examples of my "limits" which I test.<br>

 

<p>

<p>WW

 

</p>

</p>

</p>

[William Michael]

<p>[Aside: I have no specific idea why my post is all funny other than it is odd HTML format I guess - but I didn't think I did anything different to how I usually post responses – but obviously I did.</p>

<p>Sorry for the hectic read!</p>

<p>It is past the time for corrections So here is what I meant it to look like, if this helps your eyes]</p>

<p>***</p>

<p><strong><em>“Usual set up for ceremonies is 17-50mm on the 50D and 100mm on the 40D.” </em></strong><br>

<em>1) Should I replace my zoom for the 50 1.4? I fear that on the crops I won't be able to go wide enough to capture the "Grandeur" of the venue</em>.<br />– No not “replace” but have handy – the 50/1.4 fits in my Jacket pocket, easily.<br>

<br /><em>2) If I do switch to the 1.4 should I shoot wide open? <br /></em>– Generally No.<br>

The 50F/1.4 is a great F/2 lens IMO, but useable at F/1.8, if necessary: <a href="../photo/10934234&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/10934234&size=lg</a><br>

It is likely you would not notice as much edge loss using it on your APS-C body.</p>

<p><em>The DoF is paper thin and I hate having super sharp brides and fuzzy grooms. Should this take a back seat to proper exposure and low noise?</em><br>

Generally, Yes.<br>

At any high ISO PROPER exposure is CRITICAL.<br>

If you are talking REALLY low EV and pushing the boundaries - you also need to know that F/1.4 with a 50mm lens on a APS-C camera – shooting Landscape at 20 to 25 ft you will get a wide shot of the Wedding Party, on the oblique, with about 4ft DoF and that will just nail the B&G and can make a pleasing image, this is a bit closer than 25ft and at F/2 – I am sure you will get the idea: <a href="../photo/9567945&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/9567945&size=lg</a></p>

<p>On the other hand if you go for a tight half shot of just one person, for example, you will be playing with fire at F/1.6: <a href="../photo/9567754&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/9567754&size=lg</a></p>

<p>But there’s more to the Av boundaries:<br>

F/3.2 is about the Av limit for a tight Dual Profile: <a href="../photo/9567944&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/9567944&size=lg</a><br>

<br />And you need about F/8 for a tight Half Shot – Groom in tight behind Bride – to give you about 24” DoF . . . so you can pull equivalent of those last two shots I described, with your F/2.8 zoom lens.<br>

<br /><em>3) When my 100mm in on the 40D a lot of times i cant get the shutter speed more then low 100s when I’m maxed on ISO (1600). I know there is the option to expand the ISO to 3200 but the ISO on the 40D is already way worse then my 50D. Is it time to buy a new body?</em><br />Dunno, how big are the prints the clients want?<br>

I can push my 20D to ISO3200 if I do not crib on the exposure and that holds for a 15” wide print: <a href="../photo/10738830&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/10738830&size=lg</a></p>

<p>(I did crib about 1½ stops of ISO using a 20D in those monotone images above)</p>

<p>Tripods have been mentioned often - I like tripods, but my monopod is my one of my best inanimate friends.<br>

<br /><br /><em>4) What are your personal thoughts on ISO limits for the ceremony</em><br />– As much as it takes.<br>

You have to weigh the worst of all the evils which present themselves, when shooting in really low light.<br />IMO, better to have a sharp (i.e. in focus) and correctly exposed image with a little residual motion blur for example at the arms: <a href="../photo/9567764&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/9567764&size=lg</a><br />or head: <a href="../photo/10934230&size=lg">http://www.photo.net/photo/10934230&size=lg</a><br />than a low ISO “noiseless” image with major Subject Motion Blur.<br /><br /><br>

That’s why I have my limits of Tv for the Ceremony (actually for any Event) and then prioritize Av next: and not a limit on ISO.<br /><br /><br>

My Tv Limits depend upon:<br />> the Stage of the Ceremony / condition of the Subjects, (eg: “nervous standing” or “composed kneeling / sitting”<br />> the Shooting Distance<br />> the Aspect of the Subject to the Camera<br />> the FL of the Lens<br />> the Camera<br />> whether Tripod, Monopod or HH.</p>

<p>I constantly test my limits and whilst I am very certain what I can pull hand held with any particular lens & camera combination; when at any event, it is most important to understand what <em>the Subject, the Shooting Distance, the FL of the lens and the purpose and size of the final product <strong>will allow me to pull</strong>.</em><br>

<br />My portfolio has many examples of my "limits", which I regularly test.</p>

<p>WW</p>

 

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>Upgrade to a pro body, i.e. 5 series or 1 series. Get yourself a pair of 580ex2's and learn to bounce, or get two cross fired with some pocket wizards and practice like crazy before going. Getting some faster glass will help too, but the professional bodies will help a lot to reduce noise.</p>