Seagull focusing error problem

[cole_paquette]

<p>I have a seagull TLR that has a focusing issue.<br>

the focus will not rack all the way back into the camera, and this prevents the case from closing. minor gripe, I know, but it gets worse.<br>

the focus no longer completely works either-simply put, the lens carriage moves, but the focus doesn't really change.<br>

the dial is showing infinity, which should have the lens assembly all the way back, but it is a little over 1/4" out.<br>

the dial will rotate for a little, then with this click that can be heard and felt, the dial stops with lenses full out, yet the dial is showing focus at around the 1.2 meter mark, yet it used to be able to go to, and a little past, the 1 meter mark on the dial.<br>

I opened it up (I mostly knew what I was doing. however, the focusing assembly appeared to be fine, and is quite inacessible, partially doe to location, partially due to a stripped screw on the focus hood (not my fault)<br>

the focus hood, mirror, and mirror assembly would need to be removed for better access.</p>

<p>I've been quite frustrated by this camera ever since I got it (cheaply too, I might add)<br>

I was thinking of keeping it as a conversation piece if the repair cost is too much and going with a rolleiflex.</p>

<p>it's a model 4B-1<br>

the number on the camera says 4BI-557747</p>

<p>btw, this isn't the english version. the paper in the case and the logo on the camera are all in chinese.</p>

[bueh]

<blockquote>

<p>I've been quite frustrated by this camera ever since I got it (cheaply too, I might add)<br /> I was thinking of keeping it as a conversation piece if the repair cost is too much and going with a rolleiflex.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>"Error" and "Seagull" pretty much go together. Expecting anything else is tempting fate. I guess your camera is gone.</p>

<p>Rolleiflexes are not the only great twin-lens cameras. Also give the Mamiya TLRs a try, they are built like tanks and have excellent, modern optics (interchangeable, too!). They are even better conversation pieces than the puny Seagull... "<em>That's not a camera. *That's* a camera!</em>"</p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>thanks. will most likely do that.</p>

<p>the mamiyas look neat, and useful, but I find that the portability is hampered somewhat with additional lenses.<br>

which is why I prefer a short-to medium or short to medium long zoom lens for my 35mm<br>

that way i only need to bring one lens (usually)<br>

I know someone who might have a mamiya, I'll see what they think.<br>

I know everyone who I know and have talked to about rollei have loved them, and highly recommend them.<br>

not sure if rolleiflex or rolleimagic would be better. i nkow the magic II has a manual override and a special rolleimagic rolleiflash, I happen to own a rolleiflash comb. and I would like the camera that can use it. will the magic flash take the comb. flash extension?<br>

or will i only be able to use a rolleiflex/rolleiflash for that?</p>

[bueh]

<blockquote>

<p>which is why I prefer a short-to medium or short to medium long zoom lens for my 35mm</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Which you won't find anywhere else but on the Mamiya TLRs. Everything else has a normal lens (yeah, I know about the Tele Rolleiflex, but we're probably talking about something in a sensible price range). You don't have to carry any additional lenses, but it's nice to have the option to go from wide angle to telephoto when you feel like it. The Mamiyas also focus much closer than all others, which makes cropping unneccessary.<br>

Can't help you with the Rolleimagic, sorry.</p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>okay, thanks.<br>

I will take a close look at the Mamiya camera then.<br>

it's something like c220 or c330, right?</p>

[richard_oleson]

<p>Other than telling you to junk your camera and buy another one (which may yet be the best course), it doesn't look like anyone has addressed your problem.</p>

<p>You do not reach the focus mechanism in a TLR from the top - there is nothing under the mirror but the chassis casting. The focusing system consists of a pair of scroll shaped cams in the side walls of the body, reached by removing the side panels. It may be that your focus knob has just come loose from its shaft, which would probably be a loose nut inside the knob ... or there might be something seriously wrong.</p>

<p>The Mamiya C series are very good cameras, but also very large. Some people love that, but it's not my cup of tea personally. If you want a good camera on the same size format as your Seagull, there are a number of options; top of my list would be Rolleiflex - an X synch in the $100-150 range, MX at $150-200 or MX-EVS at $175-225 would offer excellent optics and mechanical construction without being overly pricey. You might also find a Yashica Mat for under $100 in decent shape ... not as durable as the Rollei but still quite respectable and a good picture taker. There are good, dependable TLRs available all the way down into the under-$40 range with the Ciro-Flex, if you can do without high style and creature comforts.</p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>the seagull side panels appeared to be cast as part of the body, while some of the focusing mechanism (the top rail, above the cams) looked to be accessible from the mirror area (below the ground glass and such)I already tried checking for nuts, bolts, setscrews, etc inside of the knob.<br>

the knob didn't really move, per say. I was using it when it broke.</p>

<p>I had dialed the focus out to, well, focus on the subject, when i felt, and heard, this weird thunk from the camera. from then on, the focus would no longer work.<br>

previously, the focus hadn't caught or whatever, even though i could feel and hear the thunk, just that one day, it caught, and it seems to be permanent. permanent as in there appears to be no way to fix it.</p>

<p>well, thanks everyone. I'll look around at the TLRs</p>

<p>rolleiflex for less than $250? nice price. they seem to go around $300 on ebay.<br>

someone there does have one of the original model rollei TLR (first or second model they ever made it appears)<br>

it's pretty cheap at the moment (for you classic collectors)<br>

some other guy is selling a rolleimagic with a $300 buy it now.<br>

last I checked, those were selling for less than $175</p>

[bueh]

<blockquote>

<p>someone there does have one of the original model rollei TLR (first or second model they ever made it appears)<br /> it's pretty cheap at the moment (for you classic collectors)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Old Rollei TLRs (this included almost anything pre-1960) have very dark viewfinders with severe vignetting. As a user these cameras are not really desirable, although your milage may vary. Modern TLRs (including Mamiya, Yashica and that Seagull) have a better WLF design with a bright fresnel lens. Shooting the older cameras can be pretty frustrating if you shoot in less than optimal lighting. And everything pre-war won't have flash sync, of course.</p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>I think you misinterpreted me. I checked on th old models, and they are rather rare and valuable.<br>

I hate rare and valuable things.<br>

You can't really use them, you are just more of a caretaker for the item, hoping to sell it for more than you got it. I hate having stuff I can't use because it is rare.</p>

<p>oh and about the rolleiflash, I managed to answer my own question with the instructions. I found this really useful site with a ton of camera manuals for free download, the guy does ask that if you find the stuff useful, a $3 donation would be nice.<br>

here's the link:<br>

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/</p>

<p>they have about every manual for almost every camera you could think of.<br>

It's really useful in my experience, so I am recommending it here.</p>

[bueh]

<blockquote>

<p>I think you misinterpreted me. I checked on th old models, and they are rather rare and valuable.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well, here in Germany <a href="http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380220279985"><strong>bargains</strong></a> are quite possible. Whether you use it is up to you... Film and processing cost money, too, so I rather shoot with reliable cameras I can comfortably work with.</p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>Nice!<br>

Yeah for camera, I may go with the magic II.<br>

it has a manual setting feature, so it works like a regular rolleiflex, and it does take the special flash.<br>

luckily I found a good deal on one on ebay. will be watching it to see how much it goes to before I bid (or not, depending on price)<br>

but the magic and flash will cost me less than a rolleiflex.<br>

which amuses me.</p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>alright, that's it.<br>

the shutter on the seagull just now no longer works. I can not arm the shutter.<br>

i armed it to test the camera, and fired the shutter, then it refused to arm again.<br>

last straw here. you guys are quite right-the seagull is nothing but errors.<br>

Thanks for the help all.</p>

[bueh]

<p>Hate to say I told you so. But it's a common mistake, even I have owned a seagull (folder) which refused to work right from the start. You live and learn...</p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>eh, I've learned. luckily i bought it cheap enough that while it worked i got my money's worth from it.<br>

what I would never do, especially now, is buy one of the new seagulls, regardless if it is B&H selling it or Lomography (lomo shop seems a little pricey to me)</p>

<p>go ahead and say it. you earned the right to say it and i've messed up enough to deserve to hear it.</p>

[richard_oleson]

<p>Here is a list of reliable TLRs in different price ranges (you have never indicated what sort of budget you're on). All of these are below the price of a new Seagull:</p>

<p>$25-40: Ciro-Flex C or E, with Rapax shutter - these have decent full-range shutters and a decent quality triplet lens, and are so simple that very little can go wrong with them; Ciro-Flex F, if you can find one, has a better, faster f/3.2 Tessar type lens and is a real bargain if it stays under $50. Yashica A - in no way better than the Ciro-Flex, more limited shutter speeds, but it looks fancier and it's reliable.<br />$50-75: Yashica C or D - same lens as the A, better shutter; similar specs to the Ciro-Flex, but in a nicer looking package. Only difference between the C and D is cosmetics.<br />$75-100: Yashica Mat - several models, the ones without light meters will be in this price range; you might get a better deal on one of the old selenium-metered models, nobody seems to want those. The Yashinon lens is a Tessar type, a step up from the triplets. Rolleiflex Automat - prewar models come in this price range, very good cameras but with uncoated lenses. Expect to replace the focusing screen in any Rollei, though, at a cost of $30-40 or so and up.<br />$100-150: Rolleiflex Automat X - with coated Tessar or Xenar lens and shutter synched for strobe. Yashica Mat 124 - same as above with a really well designed, built-in coupled light meter that sometimes gets jumpy but isn't hard to clean if that happens... these have a really bright viewfinder, probably the best of the lot.<br />$150-200: Rolleiflex Automat MX and MX-EVS - as above, a few years newer, still has the same dim screen but you can change that. Minolta Autocord - the best optics of the Japanese TLRs, but a bit delicate in the focusing system, watch out for a stiff (or broken or missing) focusing lever. Yashica Mat 124G - same as above with gold plated contacts on the meter to make it less jumpy. Mamiya C2,3,22,33,220,330, etc, etc - very good cameras with very good (and <i>interchangeable</i>) lenses, focus much closer than the others but are also much larger and bulkier, not as much of a walking-around camera.</p>

<p>If you can't find something that suits you in this group, then you probably don't want a TLR.</p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>well, I am most likely going for a rollei (one of the better ones) or maybe a mamiya. the rolei is more likely due to portability reasons.<br>

I was thinking maybe a 2.8 rolleiflex.</p>

 

[bueh]

<p>I'm curious... why a TLR and not a medium format SLR or rangefinder? What are your applications? And how did you meter the light?</p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>I just don't like the SLR cameras as much. plus, they do cost a LOT more.<br>

I use the camera for general art work, usually taking it most places with me.<br>

besides, with the TLR I can use a slow speed and follow the subject by continuing to look at the ground glass. no mirror movement, etc.</p>

<p>meter? Basic Daylight. usually, I just Guesstimated. I got better results that way than I did using the meters available (built in meter in two different minolta 35mm SLR)</p>

[eric_mogren]

<p>richard oleson:<br>

$50-75: Yashica C or D<br>

$75-100: Yashica Mat<br>

$100-150: Rolleiflex Automat X; Yashica Mat 124<br>

$150-200: Rolleiflex Automat MX and MX-EVS; Yashica Mat 124G<br>

I would REALLY like to know where you are shopping for these cameras. I recently looked for a TLR in good, reasonable operating condition and considered most of the above, and never saw these prices... I think double those prices and you would be in the ball-park. </p>

[richard_oleson]

<p>I paid $157 for my MX and $203 for my 2.8A (the latter needed a bit of work, the MX did not). I paid $62.50 for my Yashica Mat 124 in excellent condition. I paid $25 for my Yashica C (it was $50 for 2 cameras). All were on eBay. You do have to have enough patience to stay out of bidding wars, but you don't have to wait a lifetime for these prices. Here are the cameras:<br>

<a href="

<a href="

<a href="

<a href="

I passed by a number of X Rolleis around $125 because I wanted an MX, and I saw a number of MX-EVS's going around $175-200 but I didn't want to spend that much. It's not that hard.</p>